On a somewhat serious note today because of a conversation the other day:
I am sure every girl can recall, at least once as a child, coming home and telling their parents, uncle, aunt or grandparent about a boy who had pulled her hair, hit her, teased her, pushed her or committed some other playground crime. I will bet money that most of those, if not all, will tell you that they were told “Oh, that just means he likes you”. I never really thought much about it before having a daughter of my own. I find it appalling that this line of bullshit is still being fed to young children. Look, if you want to tell your child that being verbally and/or physically abused is an acceptable sign of affection, i urge you to rethink your parenting strategy. If you try and feed MY daughter that crap, you better bring protective gear because I am going to shower you with the brand of “affection” you are endorsing.
When the fuck was it decided that we should start teaching our daughters to accept being belittled, disrespected and abused as endearing treatment? And we have the audacity to wonder why women stay in abusive relationships? How did society become so oblivious to the fact that we were conditioning our daughters to endure abusive treatment, much less view it as romantic overtures? Is this where the phrase “hitting on girls” comes from? Well, here is a tip: Save the “it’s so cute when he gets hateful/physical with her because it means he loves her” asshattery for your own kids, not mine. While you’re at it, keep them away from my kids until you decide to teach them respect and boundaries.
My daughter is `10 years old and has come home on more than one occasion recounting an incident at school in which she was teased or harassed by a male classmate. There has been several times when someone that she was retelling the story to responded with the old, “that just means he likes you” line. Wrong. I want my daughter to know that being disrespected is NEVER acceptable. I want my daughter to know that if someone likes her and respects her, much less LOVES her, they don’t hurt her and they don’t put her down. I want my daughter to know that the boy called her ugly or pushed her or pulled her hair didn’t do it because he admires her, it is because he is a little asshole and assholes are an occurrence of society that will have to be dealt with for the rest of her life. I want my daughter to know how to deal with assholes she will encounter throughout her life. For now, I want my daughter to know that if someone is verbally harassing her, she should tell the teacher and if the teacher does nothing, she should tell me. If someone physically touches her, tell the teacher then, if it continues, to yell, “STOP TOUCHING/PUNCHING/PUSHING ME” in the middle of class or the hallway, then tell me. Last year, one little boy stole her silly bandz from her. He just grabbed her and yanked a handful of them off of her wrist. When I went to the school to address the incident, the teacher smiled and explained it away to her, in front of me, “he probably has a crush on you”. Okay, the boy walked up to my daughter, grabbed and held her by the arm and forcibly removed her bracelets from her as she struggled and you want to convince her that she should be flattered? Fuck off. I am going to punch you in the face but I hope you realize it is just my way of thanking you for the great advice you gave my daughter. If these same advice givers’ sons came home crying because another male classmate was pushing them, pulling their hair, hitting them or calling them names, I would bet dollars to donuts they would tell him to defend themselves and kick the kid’s ass, if necessary. They sure as shit wouldn’t say, “he probably just wants a play date”.
I will teach my daughter to accept nothing less than respect. Anyone who hurts her physically or emotionally doesn’t deserve her respect, friendship or love. I will teach my boys the same thing as well as the fact that hitting on girls doesn’t involve hitting girls. I can’t teach my daughter to respect herself if I am teaching her that no one else has to respect her. I can’t raise sons that respect women, if I teach them that bullying is a valid expression of affection.
The next time that someone offers up that little “secret” to my daughter, I am going to slap the person across the face and yell, “I LOVE YOU”.
EDIT: One of my readers made a very astute critique of this post and I wanted to include his whole comment, rather than just make the edit.
“Love it! Do have one small criticism
“And we have the audacity to wonder why women stay in abusive relationships?” I think could be better rephrased as “And we have the audacity to wonder why abusers are able to keep women in abusive relationships?”
One is a line of reasoning that blames the abused women “Well, she’s the one choosing to stay, I guess she’s getting what she deserves!” The other better illustrates that society’s conditioning may have made them better targets, but someone had to come along to take advantage of that.“
Views from the Couch 
A copy of this needs to be distributed nationwide! Right on!
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Pass it on because the next time I hear this being spouted to another child, I am going lose my mind.
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I think that the ideas here deserve to be listened to and understood. It is unfortunate that the gueenofthecouch needs foul language to help get her point across. I would have more respect for her opinions if she spoke english with out the use of expletives.
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fuck off, ed
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I have to agree with Ed above here. While slightly amusing (I understand you’re trying to engage your audience) the foul language makes this lose a bit of its pizazz. While teaching your daughter respect and to be respected, I doubt you’re using this language with her.
As a teacher myself I would LOVE to print this and give it to my principal and fellow teachers, but I can’t distribute this kind of language.
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This is a fabulous post filled with just the right amount of vitriol for the incredibly lousy attitude it develops in children of both genders. My mother constantly taught me to “turn the other cheek”, to both male and female bullies, and I spent years completely fucked up and completely unable to take care of myself because I accepted the bullshit thrown at me by others for so long that I ended by believing it. All of it. Mind you, I love my mom like hell and I realize that she also has some issues that she passed down to me without any intention of doing so, but god DAMN did my life ever improve the day I learned that if someone is hurting me, it’s okay to tell them THAT IS *NOT* OKAY, DAMMIT.”
Yeah, little rage left over. I’m still pretty fucked up when it comes to human interaction, and I can’t help wondering, from time to time, who I might have been if I’d been taught to have as much respect for myself as I was taught to have for others. If, the first time a kid had punched me, instead of learning how to hide in corners and find adults to stick around whenever I had to be around other children, I’d turned around and nailed her one right back.
On a side note, fuck the whiners complaining about “bad language”. Oh no, a four letter word, my world, it is crumbling.
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First you need to realize that when little…little…LITTLE boys do this they have no idea how to show a girl that he likes her. When we do grow up and decide to hit push blah blah all in all hurt a female it has nothing to do with how little boys display their affection. I dont see why women subject themselves to being punished for the sake of “love”. so when you get punched in the face (not saying its your fault) but its your fault if you let it continue to happen. there needs to be boundaries, thats where the woman comes in and tells her daughter that shit. SO ITS YOUR FAULT YOUR DAUGHTERS THINK THAT!
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“You would make your point better without the foul language” means “I’m uncomfortable with your message but rather than argue it on its merits or disappear quietly into the woodwork like the fucking six-legged pest I am, I will insult your use of language to completely distract from the issue.”
Shut up, Ed. And everyone who agreed with him can go step in front of a bus.
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Yes Ed, Fuck off. You too Anissa! The language is appropriate to the level of bullshit that it is to tell this to a girl being treated this way. A boy punched me in the stomach in 4th grade. He then asked me to the prom later on in our lives. Did he forget that he punched me in the stomach…? Needless to say I went with someone else.
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Anybody who’s got a problem with the language, there’s a handy thing called a word processor. With that handy tool, you can:
Copy the text of this article and paste it on a blank document
Format it to fit the page
Edit the text. Possible ways of making it “school appropriate”? 1. Replacing the suspect word with ****s. 2. Replacing the word with a well known substitute. 3. Putting a [expletive] or [redacted] in place of the suspect word. 4. Erasing the sentence if it contains such suspect words and does not carry any additional information.
Neat!
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I’m with Ed. Though I wholly agree with you but the article would be better without the expletives. The rest who thinks expletives are alright when you’re frustrated, it’s not. That said, good to see someone addressing this long standing issue.
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Actually Ed has a point. As an adult who cheerfully swears like a sailor I’m down with the content of this article, and have no problem with the language, but other people might, and if you want those other people to read it and actually take on the message (which, frankly, should have been said long ago, because it’s absurd that this claptrap still gets trotted out to little girls when they come home crying), why alienate them unnecessarily with language they don’t want to read? You can use language forcefully and persuasively without resorting to the word ‘fuck’.
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@the undersigned @Thelma
Oh shut the hell up both of you. I’m so sick of women acting like fucking thugs online whenever this type of conversation comes up. Drop the internet tough guy act.
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What Ed is doing is called Tone Trolling. It adds nothing to the point discussed and in rather annoying ways deflect the discussion to all of a sudden be about ‘the tone’ of an argument rather than its content. Do not feed the Tone Troll.
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Excellent, forthright and justified anger. This is the child version of the adult, “What’s the matter, can’t you take a joke?” or “I understand you are overly sensitive?” garbage men throw back at women when women set the respectful boundaries THEY need. The metaphor for this rage, and it should evoke rage, is the film “Kill Bill: Volumes 1 and 2,” in which the demeaned, denigrated feminine element (The Bride) takes corrective, honorable action, as any true warrior should. It’s not a film about violence, it’s a film about what will happen if we continue to dishonor our females and our mother earth.
You go, girl!
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So Ed doesn’t like the language being used and instead of going.. “Hmmm you’re probably right, there’s a better way to send this message.” You all gang up on him and tell him to f-off. Really classy guys.. glad the message of bullying got across.
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Dana – the point with the language is that it contradicts the messages it’s trying to convey. The aggressive nature of the article seems an odd way to promote little boys learning to behave in a respectful and friendly manner.
In any case, I don’t think someone who advises others to get run over by a bus, just because they have a different opinion, has much credibility when it comes to commenting on society.
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Very well said and and also a very valid piece of work. it is an often looked over issue in modern society and its high time its adressed.
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I never thought about it like that. Thanks QotC! I like ur “un-lady-like” language! Ladies are often expected to be quiet and pretty – excitable and accepting. Fucking let it rip ladies. I think I’ll punch someone the next time I want to show my endearment hahaha
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uncouth commoner.
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@MaxG
Okay, I don’t know whether I should laugh, or slap my forehead. You said
“Oh shut the hell up both of you. I’m so sick of women acting like fucking thugs online whenever this type of conversation comes up. Drop the internet tough guy act.”
Was this supposed to be ironic, or satirical, or what? Are you demonstrating the “internet tough guy act” for educational purposes, maybe?
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I agree with some of the other comments that you raise a very valid point however the profanity expresses your anger but adds nothing to the quality of the blog.
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What a great blog entry. I’d honestly never thought of it that way. Of course it’s a horrible idea to teach our children that abuse equals affection!
Oh and your use of profanity was perfectly appropriate.
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I know exactly what you mean! I see this all the time especially in the generation now, it’s just horrible. I used to see it alot in high school where a guy would call his girlfriend a bitch and it would be all okay and it seemed like she would love him even more the next day. Is that what they are used to now days? Is it really that bad?? I mean come on! And then when they get older they are still being abused and then it comes back to haunt them. I know the guys have alot to do with it but is it something the women are doing wrong too? Acceptance? To be accepted? Like its okay to call me a hoe and a slut because i know your just playing around (but hes really not) or do they know and let it pass? YOU are being ABUSED and dont even know it. Thats what I think! Great post! Good topic!
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First let me say, great article, although I’m going to point out a few flaws, I think this is excellent insight. Mostly, I tend to agree with this, but I think it depends on if the interaction is playful or abusive, not all teasing, chasing etc. is done with power in mind, but maybe 90%-99% is. Also, I don’t think the response of telling an authority figure is always the best thing to do, actually I would say that this part actually harms women. It teaches them to rely on people other than themselves to take control of their situations and actually un-empowers them. Authority figures should be a last resort, not a first resort, only after other things have been tried. Cruel or not, the playground is a microcosm of adult interaction, and in the real world, there is little an authority figure can do until a man really crosses a line.
…
Secondly, telling them to think it’s abuse (and report it) EVERY time someone teases them, both takes away their ability to determine how they feel about things for themselves and makes them hyper-sensitive and unable to take criticism. When women lose the ability to determine their own feelings they are open to abusive relationships where they can’t just go tattling to an authority anytime someone disrespects them. Making them think that every tease has the worst intentions makes them hyper-sensitive, pessimistic and almost unable to function in the real world because they can’t determine truth for themselves.
…
The author talks comparisons between gender and how we wouldn’t tell a boy the things we tell girls when someone picks on them. This is a great point, but taking it a step further, we wouldn’t tell a boy to do things that this author is instructing her daughter to do. If you told your son to go tell the teacher anytime someone makes fun of you, most people would say you’d be raising a wimp who can’t stand up for himself and only invites more criticism with his actions. Granted, telling the teacher every time is better than being abused, but only slightly. The important thing is teaching women to be self-sufficient.
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Eat a bag of dicks, Ed.
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She wrote this on her blog, not as a message to be nationally distributed. If you want to make a media campaign out of it, awesome, but to ask someone to tone down the language on their own blog when they are telling their own story is just lame. And for those who suggested editing out words or entire sentences before distributing this, please do it in such a way so you are not plagiarizing the author’s brilliant work (i.e. unacknowledged edits are *not* cool). And always cite your source so someone can go back to read the original!
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I have to agree with Ed. The message in this blog is awesome. Not only should we not teach our children that giving or getting disrespect is acceptable (something that goes for adults too!), by telling our children that someone who is abusive to them, either physically or emotionally “likes” them, tells them that it is ok to be abused in the name of love. How many battered women have been told “I only hit you because I love you so much I couldn’t stand it if you left?” The message of this blog is important… but unfortunately, the language that didn’t add to the message means that I can’t share it with those I would most like to, because of that language. Wishing something with a great message was packaged in a way that it could be more freely shared, isn’t wrong. Not everyone finds curse words acceptable. If you do, that’s fantastic, but there isn’t any reason to completely miss the point about respect in the article by being disrespectful to someone with a different opinion.
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This post has a really good message, but don’t you think you’re limiting your audience by writing it in English? I have some Chinese friends and it’s really inappropriate to assume that they can understand this. I think if you really want to reach more people you should provide a Mandarin translation.
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BAHAHAHA! If I had a prize for comments, this would win!!
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*Worldwide
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Frankly, I don’t see what the big deal with foul language is. It’s 2012, not 1800.
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I think the problem some people are having with the foul language isnt that we are too sensitive as adults but that we are wanting to share this with the young women in our lives but you cant show this to children with the foul language involved. i mean i doubt that the author of this used such stong language when discussing this problem with her daughter. the language in this article ust hurts the ability to show this to young girls and their mothers and still look professional.
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It’s been mentioned before by others who wanted to share this, minus the language, that Word has a search and replace function available. Several people have commented that they passed it on to family or friends after editing it to G/PG rating.
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@queen of the couch
thats what i plan to do before sharing this with my young neices and nephews. i support the message but i believe they are too young for the language (they are all 10 or younger).
and by my previous comment was just explaining why i feel there are so many people having a problem with the language. it makes no since with people saying that its imature in this day and age the cussing doesnt matter, the only problem with it is when children are involved but like you said just edit the poor language out.
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I don’t understand all of the people complaining about the language of this article citing that they can’t show it to their younger children / young women as references. Shouldn’t you take the job upon yourself as parents / role models to explain this in a manner your kid can understand rather than being lazy and using someone elses words to do it for you? Huge problem in our society.. everyone wants someone else to do something for them so they don’t have to put the effort in themselves.
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very interesting issue you have made your judgement but don’t you think you are bias some how? aren’t girls who behave the same way those boys you called assholes behave? look, the issue is that some of this boys can’t actually do better than be violent on these girls because of their age. I think is because your daughter is involved that was why you sounded one sided though.your post is nice and I like the simplicity of your post, thanks for the information..
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Dear God, what about the MEN? QOTC has violated the sacred internet law of writing something about girls and women without taking care of the other 49% of the population while she’s at it.
As for the pearl-clutching and hand-wringing about “language”: Yes, yes – women’s anger at being society’s metaphorical AND actual punching bags must be expressed in a genteel manner! QOTC: I certainly hope you’ve learned your lesson, young lady! Now, smile! Why do you look so mad?
AWESOME POST.
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“They can’t do better because of their age.” That’s what you’re going with? While it’s true that children don’t always know how to behave appropriately (because of their age) that doesn’t mean they get a free pass. It means they get corrected.
How about, when children hit (or are otherwise violent), they should be taught that it’s inappropriate and unacceptable? How about when children steal things, they should be taught that it’s also inappropriate and unacceptable?
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Start up the photocopier and send this to every kid in the school via their facebook etc….. That might go viral!
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As a mother, I am saving this.
As an activist, I’d like to say I’m incredibly disappointed by the close-minded tone-policing of the people in this post who claim to be educators. If you are actually, in fact, involved in the education of our youth, I hate to have to tell you that people like you are the reason I will be homeschooling. If the language is inappropriate for the age group you teach, censor it. If it is for the use of the staff, I am even more disappointed that so-called “educated” adults can’t stomach “bad language”. How did you survive James Joyce, John Steinbeck or J.D. Salinger? Does the language in The Color Purple invalidate its literary value? How about To Kill a Mockingbird?
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Kudos for home educating – there is hope for the world yet! Barely… but there IS hope 😉
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Everybody needs to read this…why would people EVER think it’s ok for kids to hit one another, no matter what lame excuse others can give?
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I know. It boggles the mind.
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HI, good notice. I am looking at the content of the article… we should stop teaching/telling any child (of any age) that that kind of behavior is ok/acceptable much less a sign of affection. I appreciate you perspective and will share it gladly.
I see you have a daughter who’s been mistreated and prompted this. I bet parents of boys who have been also mistreated will appreciate as much as parents of girls.
How I feel about your choice of language is not germaine here and as someone said can be edited as desired. @ Brandy… if you think your under 10 year olds have not heard that word you must be keeping them cloistered. Any child who goes to school has heard them.
Thanks again QueenOTC for this enlightening thought. I will share it. (())TA
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Sad to think that the person here teaching her daughter that violence is unacceptable, has no problem saying that she will slap the next person to use the said negative saying… hmm, parenting at its best.
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Because parents teach them it’s okay by spanking their kids to teach them “lessons” aka discipline, they then model that behavior at school. If we want to teach our girls that it’s not ok to be hit by the boys, then we have to stop hitting our boys. Pretty simple stuff actually. http://www.wtoc.com/story/16910515/can
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When children are exposed to television from the cradle on, they are exposed to continuous violence, day in and day out. You think this doesn’t imprint their psyches? If we are going to use the TV for a babysitter, we should expect to be raising children with aggression disorders. All of the positive parenting in the world will not undo this. If you are going to raise non-violence prone children, place the TV and the GameBoy at the curb on trash collection day.
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Bravo! I shared the FB post because I’ve seen a few friends say it to each other about their own kids… I remember being pushed around by the boys and people sayin “oh, they like her”, no, they didn’t. They liked that they could push me around and I didn’t fight back… and of course, I did one day… and I was the one in trouble. Go figure.
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The same thing happened to me.So sad,smh.
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Oh, I remember that, too. I fought back, got into trouble and a lot of people told me (in these words or more ‘subtle’) that it was very un-girly (= unattractive and you’ll never get a man lke this?) to fight back. Assholes.
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societal indoctrination at work
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Same thing happened to me. I got suspended for 2 days, and he was in the clear. WTF?!
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The EXACT same thing happened to me, 2 days suspension as well. All because some boy was picking on my friend and I decided to defend her.
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A boy pushed me into a bookshelf back in 4th grade. I fell and books splatter everywhere. The substitute teacher helped me up, but I think the only “punishment” the boy got was having to pick up the books. I purposely stepped on his foot as payback in music class one day and the music teacher threatened to send me to the principal’s office. I started to cry and she accused me of pretending to be sad so I could get out of trouble.
Ah, good times…
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in 7th grade, a boy threw a baseball at the back of my head. i told the (male) teacher. not a single fuck was given.
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Ashley- not surprising at all. retaliation gets caught more than aggression. It is a weird quirk of the universe (you see it most frequently in sports). I had a reverse situation growing up; a big girl physically bullying boys who were trained to, on no account, strike a girl. Fortunately, I was not trained so and she got a rude surprise. I have passed down the training; my daughter just got her black belt last week.
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Samme happend to me. Lot’s of calls to my parents because I beat the crap out of a guy who had been at me with bs for 4 or 5 years.. Well he deserved it, and he didn’t get in troubble.
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FAB POST! Couldn’t agree more!!
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This is such a brilliant post – every woman, and more importantly every MOTHER needs to read it immediately! xxx
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As a man, I disagree with you. EVERYONE should read this, or something like it, regardless of gender.
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Men are already told to fight back when someone pushes them around. Unless you mean men should read this so they will teach their boys not to act like assholes. And if that’s what you meant, thank you, but you’re hopelessly naive. SOME men will be inspired to teach their sons better. MOST men will get on her case for SWEARING, or will go “oh, what’s the big deal anyway” and go on about their lives as if nothing happened.
Because IT’S NOT LIKE WE DON’T TELL MEN AND BOYS THAT THIS IS NOT OKAY. So why do we still have to have discussions like this one?
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@dana – so i actually came back here to agree with your point that complaining about someone’s language is code for not being able to argue the point.
but to the idea that men are already taught to fight back. bullcookies. especially if the aggressor is female. and in younger grades there is very little physical difference.
does it somehow lose power for women/girls if we teach boys/men to treat themselves with respect too? not power – i didn’t say power – i said respect. i say no. in fact, if you want someone to act respectful the only way for that to happen is if that person respects him or her self.
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@Dana: Your response implies that men are only fathers to boys. Rex McLess is just saying everyone should read this so both mothers and fathers will not say “he did it because he likes you.”
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Dana, I think what Rex meant to say is that there are men out there raising daughters as well.
And to be honest, I am raising a boy, and I still think it’s an important message to teach to him. Respect others, no matter their gender, size, age, skin colour, parents’ profession or what have you. And don’t let others disrespect you.
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Amen!
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Hey, fathers need to read it too, because it isn’t just the mothers out there teaching our daughters about life.
But in essence, I totally agree with you!
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Don’t forget about men who expect to raise a daughter one day – it’s a useful read for us, too!
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Hmm…very timely post!
http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/horrible-reactions-to-chris-brown-at-the-grammys
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I just saw that link on twitter and was going to come post it in the comments too!
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Holy goddamn hannah, the comments in response to that make me sick. “Ha ha, wimmin, amirite?” Yes, that’s the …whole… problem with… what… you’re reading … on… WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU???
*ahem* Yeah, anyway. Not sure if disturbed more by original post or comments. Because 3 seconds into both, my eyes started blurring in a swift but still too late attempt at protecting my brain.
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Are they…. I had to exit after just a few – I couldn’t take it. I found my way here by way of Facebook – a friend posted a link to this fine article, and I shared it, but then I came back and got engrossed in the comments. I would be willing to bet not one of the nitwits who posted those Chris Brown comments ever experienced physical abuse first hand, or even second hand. I recently called the police on a guy who was beating the crap out of his wife – saved her life, as he was choking her for the umpteenth but probably last time. He is now, finally, serving time because I helped her, finally, get the gumption to file charges. There is nothing ‘romantic’ about abuse!
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Loved it! Rant on girl and good for you. I think that boys will be boys will be jerks is nonsense too.
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I COMPLETELY agree that the “boys will be boys” junk is total BS. Boys will be obnoxious boys because they are allowed to be that way and taught it is acceptable. Boys will be boys who are respectful and kind if that is what is modeled to them.
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Oh great your view is biased because your a girl.
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*you’re (But perhaps I’m biased against judgmental ignoramuses.)
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Who the hell cares??! lol
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You’re a tool. I’m a guy. I was raised to respect women and never once got away with the “he just likes you excuse,” (that I can remember).
You just don’t get it because you are a privileged douche that can’t see past your own issues…
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If you respect women then there is something wrong with you.
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“If you respect women then there is something wrong with you.”
And with that comment, you confirm Eli’s assessment of your character. In fact, I’d say that calling you a tool is an understatement.
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Calling me a tool is an…insult? You Americans are beyond stupid.
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It was the correct ‘your’.
While I’m here I would like to say that I agree with the content of the post but not the swearing. To set an example one should phrase their ideas to suit the example they are trying to set, ie; do not set a violent tone when you are condemning violence.
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At first I wasn’t sure we had a troll in here. Then I was sure.
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Not trolling.
FYI everyone disrespect girls!
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Feresto, no, it was no the right ‘your’, just saying. He used the term your twice, once as the possesive ‘your’, and once as the contraction for ‘you are’. He used the spelling your both times, the second was incorrect.
Also, your language policing is a sad attempt at taking away the credibility of something you are uncomfortable with but cannot find anything wrong with the actual substance of.
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Your a nerd.
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I think the article it has a ton of merit to it and is one of the many things wrong in society. Sadly this has well you know being going on for years. It’s sad though so many peeps are biting at the author for language or the one guy that agreed to share it. We have a supporter? So why not use him to further your cause rather then biting his head off? Maybe explain it better to him? A start is a start no matter how small. Even if you have to drill it into peeps skulls.
The simple bit is bulling is just encouraged in schools and in life. It is worse for us yes but all around it’s there. You are told to turn the other cheek, you get beat on forever then fight back but you get punished because you were mad ‘n’ they were not, sadly fathers tell their lil boys be a man ‘n’ either fight back or suck it up. Which leads to anger taken out on others.
I love the article. Sadly bullying has always been an extreme problem in schools dismissed in a huge variety of ways. When it should be taken down on all fronts. Nobody should ever be dismissed on it.
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I agree…But, I also happen to know that a lot of girls out there ENJOY getting their hair pulled!!
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In a mutually-consensual situation, that’s entirely different.
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But you have to wonder a little if fetishes like that are partially derived by being influenced by these kinds of messages as a child.
And this is coming from a guy who participates in Dominant/submissive situations.
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Right On.
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agree, completely and utterly.
I have actually considered doing a class for the little girls in my world to practice the yelling part. I know we teach them about stranger danger and we teach them *to* yell, but how often do we actually practice it with them?? kudos!
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I think that would be a great idea! I don’t think we start early enough empowering our children to speak up when their boundaries are violated. Too often, I think we go in the exact opposite direction.
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There is a great program called KidPower which does exactly that: teaches kids to react when their boundaries are violated in any way by a child OR an adult. This is a GREAT GREAT GREAT post by the way! I am looking forward to it being all over the place by tomorrow and initiating a long overdue discussion. Thanks!
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This totally plays into my rant about making kids give hugs. How can we expect them to make the right decisions when we send them such conflicting messages?
I would like to say that there *can* be a place for explanation, as long as it’s not being used as an excuse. Like when you work with toddlers. They hit when they’re angry. It’s understandable AND still wrong. So, you tell the one doing the hitting that while you understand that they’re angry, that’s not the right way to express being angry. And you tell the one being hit that the other one is angry AND that’s not the right way to say you’re angry. Explaining what people are feeling helps kids with their empathy, but feelings aren’t excuses.
Does that make sense? I feel like that particular explanation might be tainted beyond usability, but sometimes explaining to the victim why a person hurt them can help them cope with it. And working with an abuser about what they meant to say is helpful to work them through it. Especially with kids who are so rarely assholes on purpose, and only because they don’t know better.
Again. Not knowing better isn’t an excuse for bad behaviour, it’s a call for more education.
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JMH–good for you for being willing to make that point. I agree. I work in a domestic violence court and what is probably the hardest aspect for people to get their minds around is that abusers are people too. And it HAS to be possible to accept that while completely rejecting the choices they make. Especially when trying to understand why people (women AND men) stay with people who abuse them. Being abusive is a serious problem and a major flaw. And it is possible to still love someone who is abusive. Which makes it very difficult to walk away. It’s very hard to hold those two opposing realities in our minds at the same time, but I think it’s really key to understanding both positions and therefore to addressing the issue. Programs for people who are abusive can’t work if we don’t make that assumption–that abusers can change and are worth the effort.
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I completely agree that we need not demonize little boys (or call them assholes) to reject violent behavior when it occurs. We must never excuse violence. We need to put a stop to it immediately and make sure the victim is alright. And then we need to *teach* the perpetrator a more effective (and socially appropriate) way of expressing his (or her) emotions. I do think that many little boys feel conflicted about the feelings generated by their first crushes, and this can sometimes lead to violent acting out. This is an explanation, not an excuse. It should be taken into account when working with both parties. It is not wrong to discuss it. It is wrong to pretend that acknowledging it is enough.
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I told my daughter (she was about 4 years old) that if the teacher wouldn’t intervene, she was to ball up a fist and hit the boy as hard as she could, right on the nose. Once she had this knowledge, oddly enough the boy stopped bothering her. I think she had a whole different attitude. =)
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My dad told me to give them a black eye – I was 4 or 5.
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Even though it’s kind of embarassing to admit, I actually kind of agree with this old school advice. The real problem isn’t kids hitting each other. It’s helicopter parents intervening and depriving kids of the chance to work out their disagreements themselves.
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Most of the time, they will only need one punch and they’ll learn not to pick on her because they know they’re going to get punched.. Once they learn that the victim fights back, they lose interest as most bullies target those who can’t/won’t defend themselves
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When I was younger I was on the receiving end of one of those punches. I think I was about seven? Possible older/younger by a year, but I was teasing a girl by reaching up, lifting, and dropping her braid. The reason? Hell even I don’t remember now. It wasn’t malicious, and it’s not like I was kicking sand in her face, but apparently her parents had both taught her that ‘sock it to him’ advice, and she turned and caught me right in the nose. Now, here is where my story gets a bit more fair and realistic. See, my single mother of a parent, had always taught ME that violence=violence. So I swung up and caught her right on the jaw. Do you see how both sides of this were in the wrong? I wasn’t pulling her hair, hitting her, tripping her or pushing her. I was reaching up and playing with her hair. And her trained response, was to punch me in the nose because she saw that as ‘teasing’. This then triggered my trained response of ‘always fight back’. My mom never told me not to hit girls, she did tell me to respect them, and to never START fights with anyone male or female.
So I ask you now, in this situation, who is wrong? The answer is essentially no one. Was I being a little ‘asshole’. No. Was she wrong in hitting me? Not necessarily. Was I wrong in hitting back? Also not necessarily. After reading most of the comments in this blog, I’ve noticed a horrendous biased towards women being infallible in these situations, which is idiotic in the first place, but also does nothing to help the (decent) message it portrays.
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I’m going to teach my daughter the same thing. At a year old I’m already making sure she’s very active and used to rough(ish) play, when she finally hits the school yard those boys had better watch out.
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My mom gave me exactly the same advice when I was in junior high and being harassed. Clocked a kid who felt the need to repeatedly snap my bra strap (multiple times a day and occasionally center front) and was warned that i was ready to fight back. Felt awesome and put an end to the harassment immediately. Plus I had the added bonus of punching the most obnoxious kid in our class right in the face. I wouldn’t hesitate to give my daughter the same advice. And I hope I raise any future boys to be respectful enough not to do it (and smart enough to duck).
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I have to disagree, in the sense that OF COURSE abusers are real people too, but in my years as a professional (I’m a psychologist) I’ve never seen a relationship survive a truly successful therapy. When you, as the abuser, realise that you need help it’s usually better if you and the person you “love” and who loves you back part ways and work separately on your issues.
A patient of mine confessed that, before she entered therapy, he’d tried to restrain himself from violence and treat her well – it worked for a few months.
He ended up locking her in their bedroom and spitting on her, beating her up and having sex with her (I’ve no doubt in mind she wanted to describe the sex as consensual at first; after several encounters, she admitted he’d menaced to kill her and pushed her hair so hard she had a bald patch near her ear).
Still, she blamed herself for provoking him, reinforcing his idea of a woman deserving to be treated like that when she doesn’t shut up at the right time.
It’s a downward spiral that never stops if you wait for your partner to get better while you’re with him/her.
We have to stop this mentality of staying close to the person we love no matter what: these are serious issues, from both ends, which can end up in permanent injuries and death.
When you are in this kind of unhealthy relationships you’ve got to leave your partner, seek professional help and rebuild your life, ’cause these episodes are bound to happen again if you don’t make a clear cut and break the circle.
You CAN’T save your loved ones just with the power of love, it’s naive and dangerous to think like that.
Back to the main topic, great post! Mothers and fathers should teach children respect and civil civic rules.
Sorry for my bad english and punctuation, I’m french.
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I completely agree with you that that is NOT an okay way to show affection and that girls should NOT tolerate it and we should NOT feed that line to our daughters.
However, I do want to mention that children DO have odd ways of showing affection and I think that a lot of young boys don’t know how to act when they encounter feelings for a girl in their class. I think that parents and teachers need to do a better job at trying to listen and respond to boys, like we do with girls. I feel like there is a lot of emphasis on teaching girls to express themselves and be okay with their feelings, but we do boys a terrible disservice when we label them as “assholes” rather than modeling appropriate behavior and actually trying to have conversations with boys about how to treat others.
I also think it is interesting to note cases like JB mentioned- I think that when girls stand up for themselves, it is a great learning lesson for the little boy. Sometimes, I think they continue the behavior because no one tells them not to and they are trying to figure out this crazy world as much as every other kid.
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I don’t think for one second that society is better at listening and responding to girls rather than boys. I think girls get the shaft here too. I have one daughter and THREE boys. I listen to all of them. I don’t tell my boys they aren’t allowed to cry or prevent them from expressing themselves. You can’t imagine how much flack I caught from family and friends when my oldest son used to carry a purse a few years ago, as a preschooler, because, obviously, such a permission would “make him gay”. Sometimes my kids fight, sometimes they even hit. I don’t just chuckle it off and say “oh well, kids will be kids”. Yes, all children will act out at one point or another but the children of parents that do nothing but rationalize the behavior with excuses like “it’s signs he has a crush on her” are doing their child a disservice. I hate to break it to you but with four children, ten and under, I can attest to the fact that some parents have created little assholes because they refuse to show them how to respect others bodies or property. If your child hits mine, tries to break my kids’ toys and calls his mom a bitch when she laughs and gently says “can you be nice?”, (I know this kid!) you can bet your bottom dollar I am judging your parenting and I think you are bringing up a little asshole.
The point is, YES, children will act out and children may not know how to properly express their feelings for one another. The only time, however, we chuckle off agressive behavior between children, it seems, is when it is between a boy and a girl. Too often, the little girl is told this “secret” and we have the expectation that they accept this truth and, not only, accept the behavior but to find it endearing.
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Just because YOU listen to your boys, does not prove the society does.
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I totally agree. I have one daughter and three sons, and it is imperative to teach all of them the right way to handle their feelings. Yes, boys tend to hit when they like a girl. But they will learn quickly not to if we handle the situation and let them know how serious it is, rather than letting it go and giving them the message that it is fully acceptable or even “cute” behavior. Ignoring it not only gives the girl in the situation the wrong message, but also doesn’t teach the boy anything about respect and how to show affection. Sometimes, letting your son get punched in the face by a girl he assaulted might be the lesson that sticks.
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I couldn’t concentrate on much of your comment because of that one statement about your son “carrying a purse might make him gay”. I’m sorry that you have such ignorant people in yours and your children’s lives. I have two teenage sons…one gay and one straight and neither of them have ever punched anyone for any reason. My gay son gave a swift kick to the goolies of a boy who had been able to get away with bullying him for two years (the school did nothing that was effective, every attempt I made to speak to the kid’s parents was futile, ignoring the behaviour didn’t work, in the end he took matters in to his own hands (foot) and that did work!!). As someone who volunteers at a women’s domestic violence refuge however I think we need to start educating boys much more on what is acceptable behaviour instead of all the onus being on the girls. They are already the one’s who have to flee their homes, get out injunctions, press charges, go to court etc. All for something that has been done to them. Hitting back at the boy who pulls your hair is much easier as a child than as an adult.
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Well said. Children learn how to act from their parents and other social interactions, which start at a very early age. RR’s comment is the boo hoo thing of how males are sooo victimized by, what, the system they created that supports harassment of girls and women? Sorry, not gonna buy that sob story.
I highly suggest a book called, “The Gift of Fear,” by a man named Gavin DeBecker. Cheap paperback, easy to read. He discusses all the ways women overrule their own gut instincts of situations that are wrong for them and walk right into the traps of violence and rape males set up. He talks about how our ‘guts’ responding to correct fear, lead us into those places of respect and safety for ourselves, not someone else’s idea of what they want for us. A must read for any mother, then give it to your daughters.
RESPECT + TRUST = LOVE. Girls need to start practicing the first two with themselves, for themselves before we can find sacred relationship.
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“instead of all the onus being on the girls” wonderfully said, Spacecat! and not to mention that they also are the ones who end up getting murdered as young adults instead of doing the murdering, as all stats globally will confirm. The emotional socialization of boys and men has been far too long neglected. As well as the assertion of girl’s rights.
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I completely agree with this.
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Completely agree with RR. While it is not appropriate behaviour for any boy to be abusive in any form to a girl (or boy), there can often be reasons for it beyond it being abuse for malicious reasons. That’s not to say any teacher or parent should ignore it or be flippant about it, it should be addressed properly, but it is often true that children (as this is not exclusive to boys) can be horrible to others because they don’t know how to properly deal with the emotions that they’re feeling. So yes, the abused should be protected and the abusers should be punished, but reasons should be sought and it would be wise to educate all children about how emotions can manifest themselves and the appropriate ways to handle them.
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Completely agree!
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I agree with RR. We need to teach both sexes what is right -not just get angry and respond with an action that is just like the reason that you are angry in the first place. Then you just get a vicious angry circle!
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I agree!
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Not completely agree?
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As someone that:
a) has two sisters I adore and have protected when needed…
b) has three nieces I would die for…
c) have committed my life to fighting for the rights of enslaved women (victims of human trafficking)…And
d) work with children every day in my 9-5 job…
My assessment is KIDS in general do, naturally, not understand proper ways of showing affection, or for that matter, frustration or anger.
That’s where we, as adults, the parents, uncles/aunts, relatives, even unrelated observers, intervene and TEACH. Those ate teachable moments. We were not born with all the right relational tools, we are taught most of them. So, teach when a moment comes up, don’t just classify a child as a beast or Satan because he is not acting as annexing would. (By the way, Bobbi Brown anyone? Thank you).
I’m all for a solid punch to a boys nose if he’s out of line, followed by mature adult guidance afterwards.
And while you may be upset, or even angry about the subject matter (no denying you’re passionate about it)…I couldn’t help but be turned off by the way you expressed your message. Profanity isn’t necessary, especially in a post that deals with your calling for maturity from a segment of society. Any segment.
I agree, it’s not acceptable behavior to be violent. But it’s an age that calls for those moments to be moments of teaching.
Just my opinion.
http://tr4f.wordpress.com
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There is something fundamentally broken about a person who is disgusted at the notion of another person using profanity when they feel strongly about a serious subject, like someone’s life or safety or mental health being put on the line by careless behavior. Especially when the someone is the speaker’s SMALL DAUGHTER.
If it’s beneath you to ever have strong feelings about *your own kids,* by all means, if you can live with yourself, knock yourself out. But you don’t have the bloodline to put your nose in the air over ANYONE else’s language.
Profanity is one of the ways we convey that we have strong feelings about something and, as far as I’m concerned, is an acceptable alternative to breaking an offender’s nose. And research shows that people who don’t swear very often can actually lower their blood pressure by indulging in it every now and again when they are particularly ired about something, and can markedly reduce their pain when they are injured. You could try it once in a while. Bet you’d feel better.
As for profanity being “immature”–they call it “adult language” for a reason.
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Dana, the difference here is that the OP, and others following, are not directing that profanity at the perpetrators. The way a message is communicated has consequences. One can be angry about this fact, or act in a manner more conducive to their interests. If you’re angrily directing energies meant for specific people who have caused harm into a semi-public forum, you really don’t have a place upon which to stand when one gets angry (again?) when hearing ‘your profanity is getting in the way of the message’.
I have small girls. I don’t disagree with the message in general, though I still get stuck on the general point that violence isn’t an appropriate answer to violence. That’s not an absolute. Lots of people have had many experiences where the right things were not done by the resident authority. Turning to the A Team’s AK-47s when the sheriff is in on the fix isn’t immoral, but when these teachable moments come up it’s sometimes that context is sacrificed for brevity. Or, worse, sometimes it’s lost to the need to have surrogates work out problems you didn’t, or weren’t able to. That’s not justice either.
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Eh, Dana, not really much into Internet fighting, but I’ll indulge for a few.
1) You have no idea about my bloodlines, so try another insult when you have an idea of what/who you’re trying to insult.
2) I’m broken. Newsflash. We all are.
3) Profanity IS “one of the ways” to convey you strong feelings. But it’s also a way that is universally looked upon NY an educated society as a lower form of communication. Not only that, but as this very thread points out, if you alienate potential receivers of your message based solely on language, then…might it not be a wiser path to take, using one of the “other”forms of stating your anger/opinion? Just saying…
4) I like to drop the occasional f-bomb and many others…but I know the right forum. And “adult” language is a joke. I’m an adult, and I don’t swear like that in everyday communication, nor would I on my blog.
Every time you speak you alienate people & insult people on here. Stop it.
That’s all I have to add, I’m sure you’ll get the last word. Make it a juicy “adult” one.
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i have to say i agree with you… and make note that when i was a little girl there was a boy who picked on me A LOT (hair pulling, teasing, and such)! through middle school and high school he stopped picking on me, but seemed rather indifferent to my existence. many years later, i ran into his mother… long story short, she told me that he had had a crush on me since the 1st grade. so if he LIKED me in first grade, why was he pulling my hair? and in middle and high school why was he indifferent to me? it was (according to his mother) because he was too shy and nervous to talk to me. that when we were little, he was trying to get my attention, and when we were older he couldn’t get up the nerve to talk to me at all.
sad part is, i found out too late (i’d always had a bit of a crush on him too)… he passed away a year before i found out.
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So you had a crush on the guy who abused you and then treated you like you didn’t exist? Isn’t this the anithesis of this article?
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I think the message to the offenders in this situation should not be “You are an asshole” but “You are acting like an asshole, quit it dude.” If the majority of people acted that way in response to something like this, it wouldn’t escalate, because the boy received consistent negative feedback for it. If he continued/escalated anyway, then the message would evolve to “Wow, you really are an asshole.”
I do think that one of the really lacking things in common attitudes is the idea that you really can’t control how a boy will act because “they will be boys”. Girls would act just as rambunctiously, rudely, and inconsiderately as some boys act if they did not face negative reactions to it. (And I’ve seen girls act this way if they don’t receive negative feedback.) Its not so much that its a huge deal if someone pulls your hair or throws small sticks at you; the big deal is that kids’ boundaries should be respected. When they are expressing that someone is violating their boundaries, it should be treated as important. (That statement is aimed at annoyances more than actual dangerous acts, obviously.) Its nice to be able to defend yourself if you need to, but really, you shouldn’t have to deck somebody to have your voice heard.
I believe that strong language is appropriate in many situations, angry or not – I’ve worked in industries where it is the norm my entire life. I understand that there is a such thing as appropriateness, but I don’t think her intended audience was one that required more decorum. She could definitely write a cleaned up version of this that would be appropriate for the opinion section of a major news site- the sentiments would still be appropriate. But I read this more as a personal story, a vent of frustration, and intended at other parents who didn’t necessarily start cringing at curse words the instant they became parents. You can argue that she should have catered to a more general audience, but I think she was appropriate for the audience she was probably envisioning when she wrote it.
As an aside – I’ve got a vocabulary on me, I appreciate and can use literary device. I know words that are insulting that aren’t “asshole”; words that add emphasis that aren’t “damn”, and words that have emotional range that aren’t “fuck”. When I reach for a curse word, its not because I didn’t know enough other words. I reach for “asshole” when asshole is exactly the word with exactly the connotation that I wanted to express.
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@rika9: I too have worked my whole life in venues where off color language was regularly used and your post was spot on. Exactly the points that needing making. Great blog post qotc! Much thanks from this new mom…
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Again, I completely agree with you. I am only pointing out that as a society, I think we fail our boys too. When people tell girls this “secret” it hurts boys too- it does not teach them anything and lets their behavior continue.
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AMEN!! I do agree with that completely. Society is failing our sons and daughters in this respect.
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Society is not failing our sons and daughters, WE, as parents, are failing our sons and daughters. Last I checked, it isn’t society’s responsibility to make sure our children know right from wrong.
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Stephanie, WE are society. Society is not some weird alien “other” out there that we run into every now and again. WE ARE IT.
And yes, it IS society’s job to teach SOCIAL behavior.
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It fails to teach them a different way to express what they are (presumably) trying to express.. which means that whenever they eventually do learn that lesson, it won’t be something that was ingrained in them, but rather something that needs conscious thought to work against what is ingrained.
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Wow! Amazing, I love this.
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As a recipient of this mistreatment AND the “he likes you” comment long ago (I’m 65), this was an eye-opener. Thank you for posting this. I’ve spent most of my life dealing with low self-esteem issues- this sheds some light on it.
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Thank you. I work with 4 -7 year olds and I needed to hear that cause it’s true it’s not okay.
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Fantastic read.
Awesome post!
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Thank you for posting this. I am a therapist work with women and children who are victims of domestic violence. Based on my work with It’s never too early to let girls know it not OK to accept ANY type of abuse.
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Here’s what I meant to say with correct grammar! 🙂
Thank you for posting this. I am a therapist works with women and children who are victims of domestic violence. Based on my work with this population, I believe it’s never too early to let girls know it not OK to accept ANY type of abuse.
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Thank you for all that you do!
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This article should not only be distributed to all parents of girls but to all parents full stop. As a man I am constantly bombarded (quite rightly) with messages about domestic abuse and violence against women being wrong (and, also rightly, as unmasculine.) This message is, however, the polar opposite of the way that young boys are taught (mainly by a lack of negative messages) to treat girls, too quickly they are excused violent behaviours because they “cannot express themselves.” Maybe, just maybe, parents of male children should teach their children not only to express their emotions (that there’s nothing wrong with FEELING,) they should also teach them something that seems to be rather lacking in our “civilisation’, something forgotten: VIOLENCE IS NEVER ACCEPTABLE
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EXACTLY! I really appreciate having the male perspective on this post. Thank you.
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Agree. Yes. A lot.
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Couldn’t agree more… sharing for all to see x
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Whilst I agree that this type of behaviour is totally unacceptable, I do also agree with the poster above that says this behaviour often IS a way of trying to make contact, get attention, make a connection, etc. The important part is that it is an unacceptable way to do so …. AND that all children need to learn alternatives.
Boys (and girls, who sometimes make a ‘snide comment’ as a way of making contact, and that is also abusive … or either/both/anyone for that matter) need to learn to say “Hurting me is not OK, please say ‘Hi!’ when you want to get my attention” “I felt you were crowding me when you grabbed me like that, please wave / say before you hug me / whatever … to say hello!” “I really like it when you call my name before you hug me” etc.
I’ve been working on this with my 6 year old autistic son, because the girls at school are leading a hug revolution, but are then offended when he grabs them unexpectedly … or doesn’t let go quickly enough … or – to an adult – he seems to be pulling them around … yet he feels he is responding to their behaviours … if they run away he chases after them because HE loves to chase …
Sometimes there is behaviour which is totally accepted between the girls but considered abusive as soon as a boy joins in … Ok, the boys are often a little more rough, but EVERYBODY needs to learn about personal boundaries and respect.
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Way to give it to ’em straight! We need to empower our children, boys and girls, to fully respect one another and to demand respect. Love, love the last line of your post. Awesome!!! So happy one of my friends shared your post with me!!!
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Great read, parents do need to teach their children about abusive behavior, however, there is so much that can be done, kids are kids and they do not really have a value of what is happening nor are fully aware. Assholes are everywhere and you really get to know them when they are children. Next would be to teach your daughter to kick their balls when they touch her.
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The cluephone’s ringing: Ball-kicking = abusive behavior.
If a little boy pulls a little girl’s hair and she hauls off and socks him, it hurts to be punched, but usually you’re OK afterward. Enough kicks to the groin and your parents will be lucky to become grandparents. And it HURTS a lot more.
I have to agree with guys I’ve run into over the years who are really offended at the way guys on TV and in movies get kicked in the nuts for comedic value. That’s not a behavior I feel should be modeled.
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If a boy repeats this behavior enough to cause sterility from all the kicks to the nuts, it only means his behavior makes him unacceptable to reproduce. If you don’t teach that abusive behavior is unacceptable, there should be lifelong consequences, just as there are lifelong consequences from what abusive boys do to girls. Teach your sons to be respectful to women or take the risk of not having grandchildren!
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I wouldn’t consider that “abusive” behavior, in that scenario it would be self-defense.
If someone is physically hurting you, you should make them quit, especially if yelling “stop” doesn’t work (I don’t know about anyone else, but saying “stop” NEVER worked for me on the playground). We’re not talking about repeatedly kicking them- one swift kick to the balls is usually all it takes- and we’re not talking about kicking a boy in the groin for laughs. We’re talking about girls defending themselves. I don’t think that’s a bad thing to teach.
The center where I used to take karate as a teenager had classes called “tiny tigers,” karate lessons for children 4 and 5. Aside from being adorable to watch, it taught children self-defense, self-discipline, and respect. And those children were the most orderly bunch I’d ever seen. Not to say all kids should take karate lessons, of course. My point is that self-defense taught properly doesn’t have to be destructive or abusive.
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This line of thought has to be the most obscene thing I’ve seen on the internet in a good long while. To even suggest that a preteen “…boy who had pulled her hair, hit her, teased her, pushed her…” should suffer sterilization as a result is deranged. And to inform a preteen girl that a knee to the groin is a panacea for any conflict with males, or to imagine that she will exercise the requisite restraint to only use this technique in situations where she is truly at risk, is irresponsible and naïve.
Self-defence must be a measured response to the threat, not the most expeditious means to score a “knock-out” however devastating to one’s opponent. Kneeing a boy who pulled hair would be a major escalation and, if she didn’t get it just right first time around, the boy would certainly respond with increased violence, perhaps even kicking her in the groin, which is no picnic for females, either.
If, on the other hand, the girl caused a rupture, then the boy could die from hemorrhage, shock, or something secondary such as a reaction to anaesthesia during surgery to either repair or remove the damaged testicle(s). Were she an adult, she could face manslaughter charges as a result of her actions.
But they don’t normally charge children, do they? It has something to do with children not having the requisite judgement to be able to form criminal intent. Following the same theory, a boy certainly should not be maimed in retaliation for, as QOTC puts it, “playground crimes” — we can safely presume a child of that age is incapable of maintaining an adult level of judgement, control, and restraint. That’s why we don’t counsel ten-year-olds to gouge eyes as part of their repertoire of defences. That’s why we don’t arm preteens with .22 cal pistols for self-protection.
Good Lord, you’ve let your misandry eclipse your humanity… we’re talking about CHILDREN here. You really should seek some professional help.
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By the way, one kick to the groin can sterilize a boy, so what might amount to castration for a first offence of shoving a girl during grade 4 recess is an appropriate punishment? That’s barbaric!
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Very good and important points, however swearing (deliberately typed) worthy of respect, not so much. Think about it
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I’m an adult. If I want to swear, I’ll fucking swear.
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Thank you for saying that. While I temper my language in public and at the office, when in my own home, blog, Twitter, whatever, I feel that as an adult I should be able to cuss as much as I please without fear of chastisement.
As for the article… fantastic! It makes me think of the beginning of the movie He’s Just Not That Into You and it makes you realize how damaging this kind of thing can be throughout a woman’s life. It also makes me more proud of my now 17 yo daughter for punching the boy in grade school who wouldn’t stop pushing her around. She STILL doesn’t let them push her around, though these days the pushing is pressure to use drugs or alcohol, and to have sex.
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queenofthecouch your an idiot !
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*You’re*—-who is the idiot?
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FUCK YES. ;-D
All this concern trolling about the cursing…what is this, Mr. Rogers’ Neighborhood?
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Mr Roger’s Neighborhood! still guffawing :oD
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It’s her blog. She can use whatever words that she wants.
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Yes, I believe she has every right to speak about what she feels.
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Wow, way to tone police there, Jane. Brava.
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Ack please delete this and post the other comment I made? Sorry, I messed up my user name.
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Awesome tone policing, Jane. And an awesome example, too, of how women are conditioned to be nice and sweet all the time when telling people who hurt us to back the fuck off our asses, check themselves, and shut the fucking god damned hell up.
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@Jane
Telling another blogger how to phrase her argument, in her blog, in a way that *you* value, worthy of respect, not so much. Think about it
(Sorry, couldn’t help myself. But the people who come here to whine about the language drive me up the wall. How does the mere appearance of these words change the message — one you agree is good, or at least worthy of consideration? Some people have such a knee jerk reaction against swearing. The argument I see all the time is that “it shows a lack of intelligence” or “there’s other words you can use!” but it’s pretty obvious that the OP is thoughtful, can string together many other words to develop her argument, and is using the swear words merely as emphasis. Because she is angry. You don’t have to like or use swear words yourself, obviously, but it’s up to you to either deal with it or move on when someone else does.)
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Awesome response… truly! *applauds*
;o)
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Hey Jane,
And how exactly do you determine what is a “swear” word and, therefore, not acceptable? Poo is ok but shit isn’t, for example? Why is that? I suspect you just have a list of words that traditionally, for you, have been considered swear words. Sounds pretty fucking arbitrary to me.
How about you just worry about the intent of words rather than applying your Victorian prudery when deciding whether what someone says is acceptable or not?
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Awesome and much needed perspective on something we often don’t really think about but SHOULD. I will definitely be passing this on!
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Whilst I agree with everything you’ve said I must say, the ‘chuckle off’ does apply to boys also.
When my eldest son was 8 he was on the receiving end of unwanted attention by a group of six girls. He didn’t like it, was embarrassed about it and the public & aggressive nature of the attention (to the point of approaching me to tell me how much each of them ‘loved’ him & wanted him to be their boyfriend) made him very uncomfortable. When I approached his teacher it was laughed off and I was told he will be wanting that type of attention when he’s a teenager. Well he wasn’t a teenager, he was a innocent 8 year old child who didn’t understand (nor did he want to) why he was getting this type of attention. He had no interest whatsoever in girls in that way (and nor should he have) and I was infuriated by the lack of empathy for him. I had to remind the teacher that if the roles were reversed, and 6 boys were making 1 girl uncomfortable with unwanted attention then I was sure the school would do something about it before the matter was taken a little more seriously.
Regardless of gender, we need to teach ALL of our children to respect one another and not to encourage them growing up so quickly.
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I didn’t intend for my post to come off as dismissive to the fact that this happens to boys too and I apologize if it did. I am working on a follow up. Thank you for your input.
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I did also feel it was fairly one-sided, although I tried to avoid that in my initial response. As a man who, as an elementary aged child whonwas extremely shy, I received pretty harsh attention from girls. It’s not just boys doing it. And don’t forget, at that age girls are oftentimes just as big/strong as boys.
I appreciate you acknowledging it’s not just boys behaving poorly. As a man in this current culture of male-bashing/neutering, I am not afraid to speak my mind and defend men, even 7 year old “pre-men.”. 🙂
http://tr4f.wordpress.com
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Do remember, however, that 98% of all violence, in whatever form, is committed by males. That is a statistical fact.
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Unwelcome attention is a problem any old where, but she has a daughter, not a son, and so her daughter and all daughters were her immediate concern because that’s what she’s got in her life. Also, statistically, or at least insofar as people are willing to report (by the way, if you want to add to the statistics, a random stranger’s blog is not the place to do it–go find a researcher, if you can), girls are more often victimized in this way at the hands of boys than vice-versa. Don’t get me wrong, girls sometimes seem uniquely capable of some of the worst forms of cruelty, especially the verbal kind. But if you’re an epidemiologist and you’ve got a population of 10,000 with ebola and another population of 300 with the common cold, guess which group you’re going to focus on first.
Every damn time I see a discussion about bad stuff that girls and women are especially victimized by at the hands of males, and have been for centuries or millenia now, some chucklehead’s always got to come along and say “well, that happens to males too.” OH NO, REALLY? But I’m not a guy. And I don’t see enough guys speaking out against this stuff HAPPENING TO WOMEN. And for that matter, when it DOES happen to males it is *more often at the hands of other males,* and I don’t see guys speaking out against abuse of guys by guys either! Why are women always, ALWAYS held responsible for this shit?
Ebola versus cold virus, yo… ebola versus cold virus.
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@Dana – That analogy sums up my problem with the feminist point of view on domestic violence. Violence is violence…period. Regardless if it happens to a man or a woman IT IS THE SAME! If you don’t see it that way, you are wrong.
In other words: It’s like 10000 women with ebola and 300 men. You don’t just treat the women because there’s more of them. You treat the DISEASE.
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Exactly, Dana. Many males, particularly of the new age gaggy kind, love to talk to posture in front of women claiming how they feel “so protective” of us. My answer is, well, then, why don’t you go out and DO something about REMOVING the need to protect us. Like, for instance, telling your guy friends you won’t tolerate them beating, raping and depriving women (and children) of resources to get their way. THAT would be helpful, not standing there thinking you get karma points for saying something chivalrous and doing nothing about the root of the problem. GREAT film that addresses this is a dutch one called, “Antonia’s Line.” Highly recommend.
I also want to undo this myth that kids don’t really get things. As a child psychotherapist for many years, as well as the director of a sexual abuse treatment team and a former investigator for sexual harassment in a human resources department, children are very, very aware and savvy with regard to relationships, at least girls are. Their level of sophistication is far above what parents here (mostly the men) believe, which may simply be a reflection of the male level of ability for relationship rather than a fact about children in general. After all, the girls described here know full well that they are being harassed and demeaned, too bad the little boys don’t get it. That’s where the examination should take place – why aren’t these boys getting the right messages about relationship?
A great book to understand this is, “Meeting at the Crossroads: Women’s Psychology and Girls’ Development,” by Carol Gilligan and Lyn Mikel Brown. Really wonderful book about how girls are socially and culturally taught to stifle their authentic selves and ways we can help them develop self-esteem and self-respect and retain their authenticity as they mature.
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Oh wait, my bad, I looked down the comments and she’s got sons too. Missed that somehow (or she didn’t mention it? It’s late… I need to sleep.)
Regardless. It’s offensive by now, I have seen it *so* many times. “Sorry that girls/women go through this but you didn’t mention boys/men so your point is invalid.” Go write your own blog post about how much life sucks for boys and men if you think the subject is under-addressed. It’s that *tone* that gets to me, the imperious thing like it’s women’s job to fix all of men’s owies. Not something we need more of, we get too much of that already.
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Whilst I agree with what you’re saying, it’s a shame this article comes across as a gender specific thing. Girls at that age act exactly the same as boys do and as a boy I was told “It just means she likes you”.
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You know, you are right and this has been mentioned in several comments. I didn’t mean to make it seem as though this only happens to girls because that isn’t true. I’m working on a follow up to this post to address that point. I don’t want to glaze over the fact that it can and does happen to boys too.
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I don’t think you glazed over anything. You were just pointing out the dangers of letting our daughters believe that abuse of any kind equals love. And while I’m not surprised that it goes the other way, I’d bet that this behavior is a hell of a lot more prevalent with boys->girls than it is with girls->boys.
And perhaps girls do it because they’ve had it done TO them and have been told that this is how you show affection. Whatever the case, it needs to stop, for all of our children’s sakes.
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And right there – you rock. You’re not compromising or apologizing for what you said up there was nothing wrong with it but you considered feedback. Thanks
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I’m glad you are going to address that, the same thing came to my mind. As a girl, I remember more incidents personally happening the other way around (girls would tease the boys they liked, etc.) when I was growing up & I admit I felt a little defensive on my sons’ behalves reading this. Thanks for acknowledging it can go the other way around, the stereotype that abuse is boy->girl has always bothered me.
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While I completely agree with this post I want to point out that as a girl I acting out this kind of behavior to boys much more than it was done to me. As a child it was fun and for me at least was about expressing my feelings. As an adult I obviously know this is completely inappropriate and wrong behavior no matter the gender. All in all, I disagree that it happens more to girls than boys based in my experiences as a child and now that I have my own child too.
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Admittedly, sometimes when boys do this, it is because they’re interested in a girl and just have no idea how to relate to said girl or deal with those feeling. However, that doesn’t mean it should be endorsed or overlooked. Maybe that is the reason some boys pick on girls, but you’re absolutely right in that the girl should not have to endure the situation just because adults can’t be arsed to do something about it.
As a victim of schoolyard bullying (and for the curious, I’m not talking “schoolyard bullying” as in I was teased a little and people would poke me with pencils occasionally; I mean I had my head smacked against a brick wall, rocks thrown at me, and my ass grabbed on more than one occasion, all before I was 10 years old), I applaud this post! And I love that there are people like you out there who think this way and will stand up so that this sort of attitude can’t and won’t reach every level of society! Bravo!
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This is an extremely one-sided post. Most of you seem to missing what this is really about. Bullying and abuse. Gender has nothing to do with it. Take out the gender from all the posts and you would have fair points. Why do you have to emphasize which gender the child is. It doesn’t matter. In the playground all children can be just as bad as each other regardless of gender. And for those condoning violent behavior (i.e punch the boy in the nose – effectively you’re saying fight violence with violence) – how is this a model for children? Saying it’s okay to be violent as a child but not as an adult won’t help when they land themselves in court as an adult for acting on what they were taught as a child. Think about it. If a boy was hit by a girl bully, is it okay for him to go and ‘punch her squarely on the nose’ as a form of settlement? Well that’s what you’re saying is an appropriate response if it were a boy bully hitting a girl. Equality is the same rules and punishment for all, regardless of gender, race and class. Please get off your gender high horse.
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I don’t think this is entirely about gender you know. The whole essence of the story is how to tell kids to defend themselves when such situations occur no matter what at what age do they experience this.
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Boys and men haven’t been systematically given the societal shaft for centuries, Sam.
It would be an equal gender issue if historically the genders had been equal. They haven’t, they aren’t. It is absolutely valid for her to discuss this in terms of the gender issues it presents, and the larger feminist context. To insist that she address men equally is both derailing and sexist. It’s not your post. It’s about women and girls. Pipe down and let the lady talk, and quit explaining to her how to do it.
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I’d like to point out that in my comment, I didn’t mention being female. I mentioned being a victim of schoolyard bullying. I happen to be female, but quite honestly, my being female was probably the least of the reasons I was bullied.
But as much as you do have a point that the crux of the issue is bullying and abuse, gender does play a part. If a boy shoves a girl and people react by saying, “He just has a crush on you,” then the bullying issue is being overlooked because of the gender of the victim and the abuser. You can’t remove the mentions of gender from the post because doing so would remove the handwaving that happens when adults decide not to step in and stop the problem.
And I know I may stand in a minority here, but if a girl is abusing a boy, then yes, I feel that he has the right to stand up for himself. Just as if a girl is being abused by a boy. And in all honesty, some boys may be in just as tight a spot if they’re being abused by girls, because I’m willing to bet that most of the adults around will be looking for the boy to “man up” and to stop “letting girls pick on him.” Opposite-gender bullying puts everyone in a tough spot. The point is that it shouldn’t. The problem is that it does.
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It’s not okay for boys to do it, yet its okay for girls to do it?
Seems a little bias.
Besides preventing all kids from inflicting physical violence against each other is probably not a great idea.
Thousands of years of progress has shown that letting them run around like that worked, we just don’t have enough data to say that preventing them from fulfilling their more animalistic urges is a good thing.
But I agree, violence shouldn’t be a way of showing affection, try and take a less offensive viewpoint next time.
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Where did I say it was okay for girls to behave this way, pray tell? Nowhere.
Honestly, your entire statement is almost gibberish.”Thousands of years of progress has shown that letting them run around like that worked?” What progress has shown this? Is it the rates of domestic violence against women? Is it rape statistics? Is it how in cases of domestic violence and rape, society often blames the victim?
If you find my viewpoint offensive, you are free to leave my blog. I stand by every word.
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Nice parenting advice coming from someone whose photo is of her all dolled up holding a gift packaged bottle of Jack. Where’s your daughter? At home crying for mommy who’s out getting drunk and finding her next abusive boyfriend? Great job
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Awww, Beefcake, you make me laugh.
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Moms are not allowed to drink or wear makeup, even when the kids aren’t around (of course, they’re probably not allowed to be away from their kids either — hiring a sitter is practically child abuse). Got it.
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Now I do! I didn’t see this in the handbook! lol
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i disagree with his approach. and i disagree that you said girls were free to behave that way. but, as a mother of sons, i can relate to the frustration a bit. having heard the message of the natural evil of boys so many times it begins to be omnipresent.
you included the line that you would teach your boys to accept nothing less than respect and i commend you for that – truly. but i know for myself that i came to this blog by way of a friend posting ‘teach your girls not to take this crap and teach your boys not to do this crap’ and then one of her friends passed it on this same way.
the idea that boys are little assholes that girls need to be protected from is so pervasive. the assumption that everyone already does treat them with respect is also pervasive. conversely that little girls are innocent of these kinds of things. one of the other commenters even pointed out that her daughter is being bullied by another little girl.
i was watching my son very closely at 3 and 4 as there was a little girl in his preschool who every day told him what to do. “sit here, draw this etc” and he did it every time. and everyone said the same thing – aw she likes him. he came home one day and told me this girl informed him that he was to be her wife. i didn’t get upset with it because mostly it was cute and all indications were that he was willingly participating BUT i had to keep my eye that he wasn’t being bullied. after all, at 3 and 4 there isn’t exactly a physical advantage is there. imagine now that a little boy starts bossing a little girl around like that – even if she was willing i can’t imagine us saying it was cute
i’m really not busting your stones; at all. i don’t think any of that was your intention. i think you were just responding to a particular thing and i agree with you. when i was a kid that went both ways – i remember hitting a boy because i liked him and because i was a tomboy. and yes, i was taught it was inappropriate.
i respect what you’ve said and i hope that comes through; i just wish we could expand the message. i don’t think this idea that a lot of people seem to have (again, not blaming you) that boys are naturally abhorrent is helpful. respect for others starts with self respect. we have to teach this to our girls and our boys.
oh, and disney is not fricking helpful in this regard.
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I totally understand and agree and I am making a spinoff to this post, because of the way it was received (mistakenly) to be vilifying little boys. As a mother of three sons, including one with a disabilty, that was not my intent. I was speaking, strictly, from my experience with my school age daughter, as i haven’t had any experience with bullying with any of my three sons (11wks, 2yrs and 6yrs). My oldest boy is in kindergarten and he has a genetic disease and is legally blind. I know, at this point, the additional services he requires in school has gone unnoticed but it has the potential to make him a target for bullying from boys and girls in the near future. I didn’t intend to dismiss that boys can be the victims of bullying, including from girls under the guise of affection. I was just blogging about my experience to date. Thank you for reading and for sharing your dissent in such an understanding way.
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I totally understand and agree and I am making a spinoff to this post, because of the way it was received (mistakenly) to be vilifying little boys. As a mother of three sons, including one with a disability, that was not my intent. I was speaking, strictly, from my experience with my school age daughter, as i haven’t had any experience with bullying with any of my three sons (11wks, 2yrs and 6yrs). My oldest boy is in kindergarten and he has a genetic disease and is legally blind. I know, at this point, the additional services he requires in school has gone unnoticed but it has the potential to make him a target for bullying from boys and girls in the near future. I didn’t intend to dismiss that boys can be the victims of bullying, including from girls under the guise of affection. I was just blogging about my experience to date. Thank you for reading and for sharing your dissent in such an understanding way.
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um and holy crap – when i said “him” – i meant dragonbait and not john imalittleinsane doe
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Absolute yes to everything about this.
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Really lady? Get over it. When I teased a girl in school, it WAS because I liked her. Does that mean I abused her when I got older and beat the piss out of her? No! At that age, most boys think girls are “Eewwwy”. Does that mean they will turn out to be gay? No. In some cases, yes boys can be overly cruel, but not all the time. That was a part of growing up. I am about to have a daughter for the first time and guess what, I’m going to give her that same ‘line of crap’ as you so delicately put it. Now, if she comes home saying a boy punched her or physically did harm, then yes I will have words with his
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parents, but it’s also up to the parents to decide when it’s appropriate to intervene. I’m not going to have my daughter be one of those girls who has to have mommy or daddy constantly fight her battles for her. Sounds like YOU need to learn about being a better parent. I have an assignment for you: why don’t you go around the nation a ask EVERY single woman you come across if they were teased by boys growing up and if they wound up in an abusive relationship. Until then, SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU WHINEY LITTLE BITCH!
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You showed me. You sound completely stable and level headed, not at all like an abusive ass. Of course, with an email handle like “Beefcake Travis”, I wouldn’t expect any less. I am sorry for your daughter that you don’t feel it is your role to be her advocate and that you are going to teach her to endure abusive behavior.
If you don’t like the musings of this whiny little bitch, feel free to close the page on your browser. (learn to spell—shit, you’re on a computer, learn to use spell check) Now, run along and take your meds.
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In response to Queenofthecouch’s response: (It wouldn’t let me reply directly.)
You know your a liberal feminist when you bitch and moan about society and then when someone argues with you rationally, your response is… Well if you don’t like my opinions, close your browser window, you mean old testosterone ball.
So your saying that if everyone who posts doesn’t emphatically agree with you, that they have no business commenting? Sure sounds like it.
I, for one, am not a feminist. My 13 year old daughter had a boy at school making fun of her and she CAN take care of herself. I don’t think that making fun of or even hair pulling will turn someone into a wife beater. But that’s my opinion. And as a woman, my conservative opinion doesn’t add up to yours. I’m not saying that its “right” to explain it away to your children the way its done. But its not something mean as malevolently as you try to make it.
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@Jewess: On what planet are the words “SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU WHINEY LITTLE BITCH!” the closing line of a rational argument? Particularly when said ‘rational’-arguer is explaining how he used to tease girls but now he’s such a classy, stand-up guy.
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@John Doe
Just curious, do you end all of your offline discourse with those you disagree by saying, “SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU WHINEY LITTLE BITCH”? (Screamed, with neck veins a-poppin’ I’m assuming, to match the all caps.) That a message you’re going to pass on to your daughter?
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Jeeze, Jewess, if “SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU WHINEY LITTLE BITCH” is what you consider a polite and rational argument, I’d hate to hear what you consider to be crossing the line.
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“Jewess” states she is not a feminist, which by definition means feels that women should be treated equally, so I suppose she feels women should be walked all over. That certainly appears to be her view. I just feel bad for her daughter being taught that she is not equal to men and that they can get away with abusing her. You may not think that boys hurting girls will make them abuse their wives as adults, but I don’t think it’s a very good sign. How anyone can be upset with a mother telling her daughters not to put up with abuse is beyond me.
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John – maybe its time we stop teaching boys and girls to view each other as “ewwwy”. My 6 yo hass never uttered anything remotely like that. He may resonate with boys more but he still has the ability to understand tha girls are not “ewwwy” – they’re people. That could go a long way in a lot of areas
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so just because you did it makes it right?
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We should take up a collection for the therapy John Doe’s daughter is going to need when she grows up.
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LMAO! We can organize a telethon.
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We can get Chris Brown to perform! Oh, wait…
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Abso-freakin-lutely.
This is the way I was raised in school — someone hits you, HIT BACK!
I never even told my parents about any of this bullying and the boys weren’t about to run to the teachers to rat that a little girl was fighting back.
And my parents would have never said: “He likes you because he hits you”
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LOVE this. Kids really need to taught better than “if he punches you in the throat and cuts your braid off, it’s because he likes you”. That’s kinda…weird.
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I think the operative comment for John Doe was “I am ABOUT to have a daughter for the first time”. He’ll change his tune when he holds that baby girl in his arms.
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VERY TRUE!
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We can hope…
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Beefcake, we haven’t all ended up with husbands who punched us, but I guarantee that 100% of us would say that we’ve been confronted with disrespectful, intimidating behavior from men. ALL of us have, and how we deal with it depends entirely on whether we have been conditioned to accept it or reject it.
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THANK YOU!
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First off, let me clear this up. The email is an email I created over 15 years ago. Now I use it for spam and other bullshit that I don’t want flooding my normal email. Secondly, ‘whiney’ can’t be spelled either with an E or without. Check the dictionary, uneducated pompous, self-righteous bitch. I’m not going to let my daughter have to come have mommy and daddy fix all her problems. For one, I WILL teach her to fight back when necessary. I’m not going to hinder her confidence by doing everything for her which includes fighting her battles. Kids need to learn to do things on their own with a few guidances from their parents. You, on the other hand, are saying it’s ok to reward violence with violence by basically saying if the teaser’s parents give you the excuse that ‘it just means he likes her’, then you’re going to assault them? Go ahead. If a parent came up to me and the same thing, I’d have them arrested for assault and battery. What a role model you are.
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Of course, beefcake. Of course! Now, go ask the nice nurse for your pills and then I bet it will be arts and crafts time!
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queenofthecouch, I really like your article, the issue is an important one to raise. However, the way you are dealing with John Doe’s comments by implying he is either mentally ill or has learning difficulties and then mocking this is really offensive to me. It seems a shame to write such a great article and then use unpleasant prejudice in your comments. Just wanted to put that out there to consider. People with mental health problems can be thoughtful considerate parents too.
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I am not making any judgments against parents struggling with mental health issues. I know of plenty of wonderful, capable and loving parents with mental health disorders and I am in no way stereotyping. I am referring to Beefcake’s obvious hostility and anger, resulting from my blog post and his need to lash out at me and call me names. Beefcake claims to have a daughter on the way and says he will expect her to subjugate to playground bullying and abuse. Nothing about his irrational ranting screams “sane” to me.
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Wow, cranky bully is a cranky bully.
That said, don’t feed this troll. He’s getting off on calling you names and in general acting like a whiny/whiney bitch. He’s tiresome, used up, and a sad little man. I’d say more, but I’m bored of him now.
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His novelty wore off with me, as well. Some of his friends stopped by too, I just stopped approving the posts that were limited to “shut up fukin bich” or “ur a psyycho-go take care of ur kidz bitch”. I am interested in those that want to make relevant contributions.
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QOTC:
To quote from The Bloggess:
“When your wrong, your wrong.”
And John “troll” Doe is wrong. (And yes, folks, I get the irony of the quote I used. IT pains me to type it that way.)
I have a 10 y.o, daughter, and I JUST CAUGHT MYSELF replying, “Well, he probably likes you” when she told me of a boy teasing her. I shall sit her down tonight and have a discussion to clear this up.
Thank you , you cursing Queen of the Couch. We’re (nearly) all grown-ups here and (mostly) can handle your uncensored thoughts. This is a really good conversation (mostly).
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Thank you. I, honestly, can only laugh at being chastised for my language so many times.
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Is the poor woman who’s womb your daughter is currently nested in aware that you spend your time on the internet calling other women ‘bitch’ as a means of normal communication? I really would not like to be a girl in your household.
Bullying is far more than just a punch in the face and it can leave LASTING scars that take a lifetime to heal from. I hope to all that is good that your daughter never needs to experience the many-colored spectrum that is being teased and bullied by boys (before it gets physical). Snapping bra straps, attempts to throw things down girls shirts, lewd remarks … sexual harassment between peers can start as early as elementary school. What I went through wasn’t simply “because they liked me” … because they didn’t, and no matter how many times people used that line, I knew it was wrong, but here I am years later still struggling with my physical self and how I relate to people. So for the sake of your daughter, please grow up.
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Oh wow. You definitely have me pegged. I DO get angry when washed up old hags such as yourself and your lesbian butch feminist friends blog about such a one-sided argument. I’m not saying in going to subject my daughter to abuse. You need to read a little more and see that I mentioned that it will depend on what happens to my daughter when a boy teases her if I feel the need to contact the parents. Nice image you painted of me with my veins popping out as I ‘TYPED’ in all caps. Couldn’t be further from the truth. As a matter of fact, your post doesn’t upset me as much as the Afghans lobbing mortars and random ass rockets over the wire and hitting some of my friends and acquaintances. You’re just a petty nobody who blogs for attention. I feel sorry for you and your pathetic followers. I’m done with you.
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OH NOOOOEZ! Don’t leave, Beefcake!
And save me the “I’m too patriotic because i know people in the military” line. My husband and I are both Air Force Veterans. My husband served in OEF and OIF. So, while you sit back and verbally assault women on the internet and defer to your “friends” in the military in an effort to get credit for their sacrifices and rationalize your hatred of women, we actually made the sacrifices for our country. Now, fuck off, dipshit.
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I usually have a policy against replying to comments, but – dear wonderful Queen of the Couch, and I do adore this post, by the way – I am fascinated by our John Doe’s behaviour. In essence, I don’t think he’s realized how problematic his own biases are.
He has used the terms ‘lesbian,’ ‘butch,’ ‘feminist’ and ‘hag,’ all in very negative contexts. He did so as part of the same comment in which he tried to argue that he respects women – or at least believes that they should stand up for themselves. This seems a bit fishy.
John, I myself am a well-adjusted gay man – what you may or may not call a ‘fag,’ ‘homo,’ ‘pussy,’ ‘fairy’ or ‘queer’; I can’t be certain given the tone of your previous comments – and whether or not you think I’m flinging mud at you, if you’re going to read nothing else with any seriousness, please read this:
I think you seriously need to examine your own prejudices, because I 100% believe that you are going to want the best for your daughter, and if you truly feel comfortable hurling phrases like ‘feminist’ and ‘lesbian’ around as insults (neither of which should be), I am very concerned that you could unconsciously provide an environment for her in which women are simply inferior.
I realize, on the other hand, that you could simply be trolling, in which case these words will mean little or nothing to you. But on the chance that you’re taking this circus of a discussion seriously, please at least spend some time thinking about the perspective you plan to pass on to your daughter.
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I fear your well thought out words will go completely ignored or will be met with more vitriol.
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Please don’t fear for me – honestly, I feel badly for you that you’ve been met with so much vitriol yourself. People are very careless with the manner in which they criticize.
From my end, any issues I’d have had with this article were raised already, and you’ve graciously addressed them. Furthermore, I happen to be one of those saintly people that can recognize sarcasm/hyperbole when I see it. You’re an excellent writer, and it’s clear that you’re also a devoted mother and a willing learner. It’s a pleasure to have read your article. 🙂
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You are my favorite kind of reader. Were it not for the threats of violence directed at me and even my children, it could be funny. I am a bit shocked at how ugly and vile people can be over a blog post. Thank you for reading and understanding.
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Well Said! experienced and witnessed100x
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I used to be quite cynical about reading peoples opinions on random things.
but.
this is the best thing I’ve read on the internet in a while. People are assholes, and hitting people is a moral low for anyone,
” Well, when I was kid. My father was a missionary. I spent the first 10 years of my life in China. There, I learned how to fight as you could imagine. I remember going to my martial arts teacher, He said, “Why you come to me?” and I say, “Ah, to learn how to fight.” And he’s like, “Oh, so you wanna hurt people, but you wanna be great.?” I say, “Yeah, I wanna be great. “Then first learn how to heal people to be great, to hurt people is easy”
very fitting quote, if a little on a tangent.
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What a great quote!
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Brava, O Queen! I will be sharing this post with m school counseling class this vening.
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As a father of 1 boy and 2 girls I soundly agree. However, I would go so far as to say, it is the failing of the parents of the boys who use abuse and mistreatment as affection. Let us not lay it on the boys, but on their parents. If they taught their young men how to be just that, young men, and not only respect women, but learn to control their own behaviors, we would take a LARGE step forward as a society. I am not the perfect father by any means, but I do all that I can to teach my children that every action you make is by personal CHOICE! There is no force on this planet that makes you do anything, any action you take cannot be blamed any further than your own mind. Anyone who tried to excuse poor behavior off on any reason, is silently encouraging said behavior as an accepted modicum of communication. Parents, raise your children right, if you would like to see the next generation of our society grow up with the gumption to face and overcome the challenges of this ever-changing world. Otherwise, accept the fact that things will take even longer to change, because you didn’t have what it took the be the parent your child NEEDED, not the one they wanted. Remember back to when we were kids, and although you may not have liked your parents each day, you loved and respected them, and after you matured you realized that they were right in nearly every action they took, because those actions made you a better person. If you think I am wrong, and that your parents were mean, evil, cruel, vindictive people, there is a chance you might be right, or…you may still need to grow up a tad, and change your perspective some.
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Yes! Thank you for your input! I couldn’t agree more!
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…and when I or my kids are fed up and call them out – the other kids parent/s (like John FUCKING Doe above) try to turn it around like it is somehow my/our fault. Your kid was an asshole to mine and the fact that you are a family of mother fuckers isn’t my fault. You assault us and think we are jerks for being pissed off and calling you out on it? FUCK YOU!!!
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PREACH ON, SISTER! AMEN!
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I want to buy you a fuckin’ drink, seriously. LOVED this.
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I would take that fuckin’ drink, too! Thanks for reading!
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I think the hardest thing for me was that all the abuse I received was verbal. Snide remarks made over and over for 4 years of my life (4th-8th grade was the worse). And unlike bruises, words leave less evidence. But even then I was told by my mom, “Oh, he just likes you.” or “Oh, he is just intimidated by you.”
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Great point. Having worked with many children and their families as the director of a sexual abuse team, the “incestuous” family is often more difficult to work with than the overtly sexually abusing family. And, many of the children who come from incestuously unboundaried families have a far more difficult time first identifying the invisible wounds, taking them as absolutely legitimate and then healing from them. Your description of the wounds you received from constant demeaning comments from others, without the physical bruises, is a very important issue in understanding how we culturally and familially, often unconsciously, support and condone the social message that girls and women are less than their human counterparts.
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As others have said, boys have difficulty relating to girls, sometimes the affection they feel translates into outwardly hostile actions. It is important to educate thour children that it is not the affection that is bad but the way they display it. We need to teach our kids alternative ways of expression and that doesn’t just mean to teaching the boys either. There were several times when I was a kid where I was physically attacked by girls who would grab my penis until I agreed to be their “boyfriend”.
Also while I understand your feelings on the matter, threatening physical violence against someone is not acceptable for you to do either.
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You know what, if you (general you–since people fail to understand, not only satire, but generalities, as well) hurt my child, I will physically hurt you.
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I understand fully that you would want to defend your child from harm, But I was referring to your comment in the original post about you threatening to hurt someone who offered up the advice you disagree with.
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Not condoning the violence. As a matter of fact my 9 yr old daughter ( http://goo.gl/p89ni ) wouldn’t take it either, shed kick his ass.
We all go through emotionally confusing times in our lives though and little boys don’t know wtf to do with those feelings. It’s important we don’t condemn the child for lack of coping skills, there are plenty of adults who don’t have them either. It needs to be carefully addressed, the proper way to handle the feelings shown to the child and then we all move forward. Judging by the passion with which you addressed the topic I’d say you or someone close to you have/has/are experienced/experiencing this type of thing at a more grown up level, that’s a whole other can of worms. While not excusable childhood hair pulling can be addressed and should be forgiven, a man putting a fist in someone’s face should not.
Emotional confusion happens, look at how many men and women claim;
Oh I only cheated on you and slept with X because I was confused.
Oh I only slept with X because I thought we were in love.
Oh I only dated X for years because I just wasn’t sure.
Are the above emotional scars any less. No, they are not, their origin is simply less violent.
It could also be viewed as having this violence against one’s daughter is the best time to make sure this teaching opportunity doesn’t go unused, and a ponytail tug is a lot easier to deal with than some jackass who slaps or punches your daughter as a teen. It helps you to show her there need to be boundaries and explain how stringently these need to be enforced.
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This is CLASSIC undermining of a woman’s self-expression, seen it many times. It always goes something like this: “Oh, gee, you have such strong emotions, something really, horribly awful must have happened to you when you were younger, older, or whatever. Therefore, I pity you {pity is a form of condescension} and do not take you seriously.” Big Ew. Go try that on someone else, rahlquist. Your other examples simply are out of the ball park, another tactic called “diversion” often used by, well, not very aware or sophisticated folk who want us to look somewhere else besides the point.
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While I agree with much of what you say here, I think you should consider that most of the points you make are not contradicted by the claim: “that means he likes you”. It may well be (I don’t actually know whether it IS or not but I can imagine it might be) that the kind of abuse you describe *does* actually signify some kind of affection. This doesn’t make it any more acceptable and we shouldn’t teach our daughters to accept it, but it may still be true.
This, of course, begs questions as to what we should be teaching our sons.
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The point wasn’t whether or not children expressed themselves this way, due to not knowing another way, but more about the fact that the behavior is often ignored and universally accepted. Rather than talking with the child about how to more effectively convey their feelings, we just expect the receiver of the treatment to accept it and to be flattered by it.
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See I was always told that as a way to explain why they acted that way not to explain away their behavior… it’s much like how a toddler will bite to get a toy, acceptable, no… understandable, yes… and they need to be taught not to do that…
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Well said. I don’t have children, but I heartily agree with you 100%. My mom was actually ahead of her time, back in the 70s. She got called to the school because I punched a boy who had punched me first and was furious that I was in trouble when I had just defended myself. I don’t think the principal was very impressed with my mother, but I was!
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That’s so hilarious, I was literally just talking about this with my husband. When I was little, I had a boy dangling rubber rat toys in my face and when I told my mom, “sounds like he just likes you!” Needless to say he did not actually like me, I was just being picked on. But my husband, although he was raised never to hit girls, he was still the little boy who tried to gross girls out. Not to be mean, he said, but it was cute when they got grossed out and he did like them. He never hit girls, but he would eat bugs in front of them or show them worms. Hahaha. I think even if its gross, that’s sorta cute. As long as nobody is getting hurt. But little boys love doing that to mom too. They love to creep girls out.
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Hahaha! That is a new method!
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Excellent post, it’s incredible that this even needs to be said, but obviously it does. So thank you. Sharing it.
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Thank you for reading!
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First time reading your blog.
Couldn’t agree more with the sentiment that boys need to be taught how to express themselves so that they won’t be little assholes – or later on BIG ones.
But I find your multiple variations on “I’ll use force on you if you say X or if your kid does Y” to be wholly unacceptable. It’s not funny nor acceptable for any man to threaten, hit or abuse a woman EVER – nor is it acceptable the other way around.
Not funny. Not acceptable.
Also, maybe you’ve already discovered that your children *will* say and do some pretty awful things in the process of growing up, regardless of how good you are as a parent – the experiential part of growing up and putting socialization into actual practice takes quite awhile and frequently some lessons must be repeated until they sink in.
That doesn’t make them assholes, it makes them ignorant of how to do it in an acceptable manner. We, as parents, aunts/uncles/grandparents must teach them by example, explanation, and when necessary by correction.
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Again, people need to recognize the difference between what is meant literally and what is not. For the record, the comments like “I will slap you across the face and yell ‘I LOVE YOU'” are intended to be ironic, to demonstrate how ridiculous it is to tell a child that he/she should accept being verbally or physically mistreated as a sign of affection. Now, with that said, when it comes to my children, I wouldn’t hesitate to, literally, become physically violent in the name of protecting any one of them.
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And now you’ve lost me. Father of three boys. Try really hard to raise them right and violence is NEVER ok in our house (or anywhere else for that matter). But for you to say you will become physically violent in defence of your children? Not ok. If you hit my kid, or me, I will press charges. My kids are good boys, but they screw up sometimes because they are still learning. You are a grown up and should damn well know better.
There are avenues to deal with this so that children can learn from what is happening and learn to process what is going on inside of them and deal with it in such a way that they know how to respond next time. Hitting them doesn’t help. It’s abuse no matter who it comes from or why.
I agreed with most of the article. But you aren’t allowed to hang out with my kids.
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Satire is a dangerous business, isn’t it? People are always bound to miss where the line is between your serious point and your satirical overstatements. I did it here, too, and was really upset about how you turned around and seemed to advocate violence in the name of standing up against ignorance about bullying behavior. Now after reading all your responses, I have a better idea of what you really meant!
One thing that I think causes some confusion is that we’re talking about a whole wide range of behaviors and offenses here. When there’s a pattern of verbal attacks or physical affronts, then yeah — that’s a problem and a reason for someone to defend herself and teach the kid a lesson (and of course for adults to step in with strong action too). But some commenters here seem to be diving off the deep end: one young kid giving a single tug on another one’s hair, or teasing verbally, is a far cry from a pattern of physical or psychological attacks. It’s an opportunity to end the behavior before it becomes more of a problem! I hope we’re all willing to let the “perpetrators” learn from their mistakes and grow to be responsible adults. Hitting and punching doesn’t really teach that (though it can be an effective defense when things really get out of hand). Thinking of a kid (a kid!) as a “little asshole” defeats the whole purpose of teaching and raising our kids, even when they behave poorly or ignorantly. Even though I think you would claim to have used that language satirically, I was dismayed that you even thought of using that characterization for a child!
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@woodsthroughthetrees – I think there is a very clear distinction between violence and self defense ( or defense of those that can’t defend themselves). The law agrees with me
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Thanks for this–my daughter is only three so she hasn’t come up against this yet, but I bet it will happen. And I’m not going to let it go if anyone pulls that crap on her. I had an older boy bully me when I was eight or nine–I’ve always been extremely tall, and this boy was older than I but I was taller. I think that was part of the issue. One day he decided to run me down with his bike when I was skateboarding. He knocked me down, then laughed, so I picked up my hard plastic skateboard and whacked him with it. I hit him in the shoulder area; as a veteran of fights with my siblings, I knew how to hurt without inflicting serious damage. He went and got his dad, who rode over to my parents house on a kid’s mountain bike. He was a fat guy and looked totally ridiculous. He went yell at my mom, with that “my son was just fooling around, he probably ‘likes’ your daughter…” but my mom totally ripped him a new one about how his son was a bully targeting a younger *girl* and had started it and he should be a better parent, etc., while I tried to look young and fragile in the background, totally failing, I’m sure, as I was a tall and sturdy kid. The guy slunk off home, looking like a clown on his little bike. I was very proud of my mom, although she did tell me not to hit people with my skateboard anymore as I could really hurt someone.
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Reblogged this on The Social Sciences & Me and commented:
This raises some interesting questions around how this behaviour became to be accepted in society, and how it may impact adult lives. Is there a link between these kind of childhood experiences and living with, or accepting domestic abuse in later life? Is it simply a contributor or less still as genuinely ‘harmless’ as many make it out to be?
*some adult language*
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Great! I look forward to reading people’s input!
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In fairnss, I think half your blog content could go’on there from what I’ve scanned through 😉 But that’s the joy of social science…it’s found everywhere, everyday x
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BRAVO!!!!!!
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What a chippy, self-indulged individual you are, and what a thoroughly arrogant and obnoxious piece you’ve written here. I don’t know what world you inhabit, but I don’t seriously think this is as common an issue as you’d have us believe. In fact, I think it’s utter fantasy, crap even.
My advice, is to get over yourself, and quickly.
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Awww, thanks! You and Beefcake both seem neat-o.
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Your sarcasm is awesome, truly! I’m betting that some of these commenters that are insulting you were some of those kids that picked on girls when they were kids. Maybe they still do it in some capacity as adults (assuming they are adults), as they seem unreasonably angry about and possibly insulted by your post.
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D-Tone… What galaxy are you from?
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Perhaps you yourself need to get over your self…. Obviously you either don’t remember public school as a child… maybe you didn’t attend. I certainly remember boys doing this (and girls doing similar things).
Just food for thought, 1 in 4 women suffer from domestic violence in their lifetimes: http://www.dvrc-or.org/domestic/violence/resources/C61/
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D-tone:
Seriously? YOU SERIOUSLY don’t think this is common? How old are you, 109? You don’t remember grade school/junior high/high school?
That being said, PROPS TO YOU for bringing the word “chippy” back from the 19th Century.
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Thank you! I was harrassed by idiot boys in school and I knew it wasn’t because they liked me even though that’s what people told me. My son, who is now 2.5 and my sweet little snuggley kid, knows that love is gentle, even though he’s a boisterous little monkey. Of course, the same goes in reverse, anyone pestering / punching / hurting / playing mind games with him is not showing affection – s/he is a little shit.
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My boys are my love bugs too! I get showered in kisses and hugs from them every day. My daughter has always been more independent, although, she is still super affectionate too.
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I’m sympathetic to wanting to protect your children from any and all harm, and to the notion of instilling self-worth and a sense of self-respect in kids, but I don’t agree with the way the blogger is suggesting it’s a smooth and slippery slope from kids teasing each other to individual or societal tolerance for abusive relationships. Obviously there’s a spectrum and at the far end lies kids who should be in special classrooms for compulsive violent behavior, but to lump together all childhood squabbling and pathologize it just kind of misses out on the fact that children are young animals, and just like other young animals they engage in play behavior as a part of the socializing process, play which can sometime lead to someone getting a scraped up knee and/or ego. Zero tolerance policies, whether for drugs, petty theft or childhood bullying are often well intentioned but are really just ways to avoid responsibility for making judgment calls based on the individual subtleties of a given situation and result in people getting labeled as deviant (or imprisoned for 25 years for stealing cookies in one three-strikes case). Childhood is messy, life is messy, attempts to sanitize it and compartmentalize it into a series of easy to follow pathways will inevitably fail because they’re not based on the reality of the facts on the (play)ground.
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You missed the point, almost completely. I didn’t say it was a “smooth and slippery slope” from point A to point B. I said that we unwittingly condition our daughters to be accepting of certain treatments from early childhood and then we ask why women stay in abusive relationships. I didn’t say ALL GIRLS THAT ARE PICKED ON WILL END UP IN AN ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIP AND WILL NEVER LEAVE. I didn’t say ALL BOYS THAT PICK ON GIRLS WILL END UP BEING WOMAN BEATERS. There are obvious variables that lead to either outcome, to many to list, but to believe that these seemingly benign interactions and responses in our childhoods don’t have the potential to have profound affects on our childrens’ psyche is naive, to say the least.
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I see your slippery slope [fallacy] and raise you a straw man [fallacy].
Straw man: when instead of making a valid criticism to an argument, you distort that argument, and then attack the distortion. Your comment reeks of it.
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Same thing happened to me growing up. Except I’m male and there was smacking, verbal abuse and scratching that drew blood. This cuts both ways and boys need to be taught that this isn’t acceptable when inflicted on them. Period.
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Agreed. I would feel exactly the same way if any of my sons endure similar treatment in the future.
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What gets me, on the flip side, is how I can watch a woman hit on a man, slap one or knee him in the crotch, and the immediate response is he probably deserved it and him being in the position of hitting her back being wrong because she’s a ‘girl’. Man, it isn’t right to hit people. Period.
I wouldn’t immediately say, either, that it is necessarily horrible if a little boy smacks a little girl because he likes her and isn’t sure what to do, it’s when this begins to happen and nobody does anything to educate them or CHANGE it. I imagine that was where this was all going anyway; teach your kids to be respectful. They ought to know that hitting people doesn’t make friends, I thought we taught them that normally, but the double standard or blow off is silly. Does it matter that it’s because he likes her? I was picked on a LOT by boys and, sadly, it was because they didn’t like me. I know people would say otherwise to make me feel better, but no. It was because I was overweight, wore glasses, introverted, and anti-social. They picked on me for fun and to laugh with friends.
This definitely isn’t a disagreement with any of what you have said though, more an amen from here, but then just because a rant doesn’t include All Options Ever, obviously, it doesn’t invalidate everything else. That’s just silly.
And to the two or three guys here having shitfits over this, you might want to fucking relax a bit. You aren’t making yourself look good throwing an enormous tantrum, seriously. Nobody will take anything a raving jackass says seriously, even if they have a point, because they are being a raving jack while saying it.
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I very clearly remember a boy doing this to me at church youth group in junior high. My dad was the leader. He warned the kid, “If you keep doing that, she’s going to punch you.” And I did. Right in the jaw. My dad? Said, “I told you so.”
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This post just made me a follower of your blog. I have a five and a half month old daughter and when I was a kid I heard this all the time too. The boys who did this didn’t do it because they liked me or any other little girl, it was done because they wanted to make us miserable and they enjoyed bullying and causing pain.
I’m not going to teach my daughter that if a boy does this it’s because he likes her and I will teach her to stand up for herself and so will her father. I love this post, you deserve not just a drink but a whole damn round! You rock!
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Thanks!
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Follow the link to better, less angry advice for the situation.
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I’m actually not angry at all. I won’t apologize for being passionate about my children and society’s influence on their development.
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Preach it, woman! Snaps, UP!
As the parent of a little boy, I am teaching him that when he likes someone he should speak politely and treat them kindly, with respect. Fortunately, he has a father who models these behaviours every day.
Abuse and insults have *nothing* to do with romance!
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Love the article! Totally agree! Thanks for speaking out! Jennifer
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For some reason, over the past hundred and fifty years or so, it has been the norm in much of US culture for boys under the age of puberty to band together, even if they are otherwise fairly solitary introverts, in expressing a common distaste for girls. Girls have “cooties”. This is little more than organized misogyny disguised as early male bonding, but because it is manifest in children, who were extremely marginalized during the Victorian era when this behavioral trend began, and otherwise regarded as ‘cute’ and ‘harmless’, it was left unaddressed. Victorian moralists who might have noticed the trend were less concerned by the disrespect shown by this behavior and more impressed by how it seemed to discourage ‘inappropriate’ interaction between boys and girls.
Boys dare not express affection for girl classmates; to do so invites ridicule, even into the beginning of puberty. Even the mere implication that some boy might harbor feelings of friendship toward a girl can result in behavior among the other (jealous?) boys approaching hazing of the boy. Thus, the boy must ‘prove his solidarity’ with the others by showing them just how much he does not at all have any affection for the girl, by engaging in the proto-violent behavior discussed in your article.
By that reasoning, then, it is probably true in a very tortured and roundabout way that a boy who treats a girl poorly might actually be making a public display of compensation for having been seen by his peers as liking her.
It doesn’t excuse the behavior. But it does explain the thinking behind the common use of the explanation by others *as* an excuse.
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What awesome insight! I really love how you explain this. Thank you!
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Thank you! I was thinking of this the whole time I read the original blog, and the comments. As a 50 year-old woman, I remember the playground misogyny in grade school in the 1960s was heavy duty – jeering, bullying, humiliation, the cruel remarks during the mandatory folk dance classes, which I dreaded… And, yes, the “it’s because he likes you” crap. It was always regarded as cute. As an adult, I have always looked back and resented that. It wasn’t cute. It was pathological.
Next on the list, following closely on the heels of the misogyny: the state of being female used by boys as an insult. They called each other “woman” or “girl” or “sissy,” “you throw like a girl,” what have you, and it was not lost on me that this implied that being female was inferior. This continues to the present day, with drill instructors yelling “you ladies” at the male recruits, or saying “he cried like a little girl.” In this age, there are ads raising awareness regarding using “gay” as an insult, and I myself am chided by friends for calling something “retarded,” even in jest, and even when there are no mentally disabled people around to feel insulted. Yet, never, not ever, not even once, can I recall any woman ever objecting to males using femininity as an insult.
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I’m guilty of making excuses for others, bulling my girls. Never once did I look at as I was teaching them to be accepting of being abused. Thank you a million times over for these enlightening words. You have changed me what a glorious day.
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Your girls are lucky for having an open minded mother. I am far from a perfect mother. I have made countless mistakes and I will make a bazillion more but being willing to consider other perspectives and learn from our mistakes is what is most important. When we know better, we do better.
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Truth! Truth tellers are valuable and in short supply. Thank you so much. It made me feel better and more hopeful to read this.
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The sentiment that girls shouldn’t put up with physical abuse is, of course, a valid one. That said, I fail to see how saying “He’s just doing that because he likes you” is the same as saying “Just accept it.” You can tell your child that the boy is doing it because he likes her (which may indeed be true) AND tell her that this is unacceptable behavior. So while well-meaning, I feel like you’re a little off the mark with your ire.
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The problem is that you’re implicitly telling her that it’s normal behavior for males who have romantic feelings. And that’s wrong. I can definitely see how that leads to abused women who say “he hits me, but it’s because he gets angry because he loves me so much…” Bullshit.
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I think “Close, but..”‘s point is to explicitly deny that this is normative or acceptable behavior. He’s saying you can preserve the explanation (“Oh s/he probably likes you”) and still communicate that no one should put up with that kind of treatment (“But what they’re doing is not ok, here’s how to effect change…”).
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I loved this. I don’t have a daughter myself, but I am a teacher and I also am a woman with Asperger’s, a type of autism. I know bullying well. I especially know the kind of bullying boys heap on girls, and I know that it does not mean they “usually” like a girl. It usually means the boy is fearful and insecure about his social standing (usually among other boys) and is looking for someone to bullying and demean to make him feel more powerful.
This is not isolated behavior–it is a PATTERN of behavior that, if not addressed, will continue and be cyclic. Kids who bully as kids and never face serious consequences for their bullying do in fact become bullies as adults, and if they have kids, will pass it on to their kids. I see it all the time as a teacher. I even lost a good teaching jobs because I wouldn’t let a parent bully me when I punished his kid for bullying. My principal was someone who bowed to bullies, both children and adult ones, so she refused to back me. So I lost my job.
I understand kids who bully need intervention. But tolerating or excusing bullying behavior in anyway is unacceptable. Bullying wounds its victim. There’s no reason for us as adults to stand around and let kids get hurt, to let them feel vulnerable, violated, unprotected and powerless, just because we don’t to be too harsh towards bullies. That makes the victims of bullying double the victim–first by the bully, and then by our own rationalizations, willful ignorance and inaction.
And while it is true girls can be bullies too, I know from experience both as a girl who was bullied by boys and as a teacher who tries to intervene when I can, that boys are not held to the same standards as girls. Bullying by girls is seen as “unladylike” and thus offensive and unacceptable, while bullying by boys is often excused away or intentionally overlooked. I frequently see boy bullies cuddled and protected, even indirectly encouraged, by teachers, schools administrators and parents–some of these adults may even think on some level that bullying is advantageous for a boy, as it will help them later in life! Meanwhile, I’ve seen girl bullies get excessively punished and even openly shamed, thus making them resentful and feeling like they’ve been treated unfairly (because usually they have been), which can perpetuate their bullying, but for very different psychological reasons than with boys. Kids aren’t stupid–they know when they are getting a sweet break, and they know when they’re getting a raw deal. And both of these adult mistakes only adds to the problem of bullying. So I think it is important to acknowledge a serious gender bias here.
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I wish I had a “like” button. Thank you.
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Very true. I wasn’t a bully ( in fact I was teased a lot – read that as a huge understatement). But I was a tomboy and I was tough as nails and when I got picked on I reacted how boys reacted and I beat them up; which I def needed to be taught not to do but it was not handled the same way it was with boys. Conversely, since rough housing was affection in my house (like i think it is for many boys ) I would hit a boy I liked Which, again, I definitely needed to be taught not to do. But unlike the way boys were taught this – they assumed I must have actual mental problems.
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Yes. Yes. A million times yes! I have two young boys and they know better than to pull those games. You show people you like them by doing things for them not to them. This applies to boys and girls of all ages. Yes, boys may actually like the girl they are picking on and vice versa but that means they have not learned to communicate appropriately. It is not cute.
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My dad once told me a story about my older sister. When she was little (2nd grade or about that age) a little boy in her class was constantly teasing her and pulling up her skirt to embarrass her. When she told my dad this, he asked if she’d told him to stop (which she of course had, and he already knew that). Then, he told her the next time he does it, punch him in the stomach as hard as you can. There was none of this “he has a crush on you” BS.
The next day, the little boy tried it again. Five seconds later, he was laying on the ground after getting hit by a girl so hard that it doubled him over. Needless to say, he didn’t try that shit again.
And before someone lectures me on how violence isn’t the answer and what a bad parent my dad is, he didn’t tell us to go solving all our problems by hitting people. But sometimes, a person just has to stand up for them self.
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When I was 20, I was walking through a club with one of my friends and, as we were walking, a guy slid his hand up the back of my shorts. I grabbed his hand and pulled it off my ass and I punched him in the face. If I could go back, I would do the exact same thing.
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QueenoftheCouch, I’d be proud if you were my daughter.
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I was a cocktail waitress, and managed to throw a 6’4″, 210 lb. guy up against a wall and hold him there when he tried that with me. I would do the same thing today, though I think I also would have told the bartender. He was so mad when he found out, he turned purple and jumped across the bar. It probably would have been fun to set him loose on the jerk.
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I was walking through a bar on my birthday when I was in my twenties, and I felt a guy behind me grabbing my bum. I threw an elbow straight into his chest before I even turned around, and when I did turn, I saw it was actually one of my best guy friends gasping for air. He was in pain, but actually proud of me for doing that and apologized for sneaking up on me. I would do it again if I ever needed to. 🙂
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HERE HERE! I, too, have been dealing with less than intelligent teachers for my first grade daughter! She has been getting bullied for two years by the same girl and they think they can stroke my ego or better yet, even have gone so far as to blame my kid for it! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! These schools are ridiculous! Love you post on this!
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How about something more honest and realistic: “It probably means he likes you, and that he’s a jerk. Also, he’s going to grow up to be a complete jerk who will probably continue to insist that he loves women that he’s abusing. Don’t put up with it from him or anybody else. Ever. And if he keeps this up, kick him in the stomach and tell your teacher I told you to do it, and to call me if they have a problem with that.”
And I say all that as a guy with a daughter. It’s the same reason I feel like I have to deconstruct Disney movies with her.
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AAAAAHHH!! I pick Disney movies to pieces too! I actually started a blog about it a while back, it is still in my saved drafts. I just haven’t published it.
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Why on Earth would you deconstruct Disney movies for your kids?!?!?!?! Oh my God it’s one thing to be a good parent and showing your kids what’s right and wrong and to not follow or believe everything they see or hear, but Disney movies are supposed to ENTERTAIN your kids! Thank God my mom was not like you in that aspect at least, Jesus Christ, you’re killing their imagination that way, next you’ll be telling them there’s no such thing as Santa Claus or the tooth fairy!!!
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As mother of two sons, I banned Disney from the house when they were about 8 and 10. I had them read the original stories that Disney messed up. I also taught them to be respectful of women, and had to help my oldest son deal with an aggressive girl who was running her hand up his leg at youth group.As an adult, I also witnessed a junior high girl being sexually harassed at a school bus stop right out in the open and am ashamed to say I did nothing about it. The boys were grabbing her breast and laughing as she tried to fend them off. I bet she never told anyone. And she was much smaller than the group of boys, so probably would have been hurt badly if she tried to fight back. Having experienced similar behavior myself as a young woman, I wanted to help her, but even as an adult was afraid. Please, please, if you see this happening, step in and protect the child! I so wish I would have done so!
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Speaking as the mother of both a daughter and sons, I agree that there’s an added level of injury and insult when the aggressor is male and the victim female, but would add that in cases of male/male bullying, the “advice” given by society is just as often “boys will be boys.” Violence and abuse can only be stopped if BOTH genders are encouraged to respect themselves and others, and if adults get their heads out of their asses, recognize AND STOP this stuff, each and every time it occurs.
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LOVE this article! Thank you.
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Strong words! Well said.
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Sigh.
*flame protective suit on*
I would bet that very few of the girls that were told “oh, he just likes you” were told that it was acceptable to be hit/pushed/etc. The comment is generally a statement of truth. Young boys that tease female classmates generally ARE trying to show affection, only they don’t know how. It’s not right for them do those things to female classmates (or anyone, for that matter)… but since our society generally tells boys that showing affection is bad, they really have no other way to signal that they want to be friends. Of course, IT IS NOT RIGHT that boys do this… but don’t shoot the messenger. It is not the “they just like you” messenger’s fault that people raise boys like animals. Energy would be better expended convincing boys that it’s ok to be friends with girls and that their emotions are not horrible things to be excised than hitting people in the face just because they’re stating a fact of life. Certainly an unfortunate one that we need to change, but is true nonetheless.
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Well put,I have 4 daughters and this will be taught to them
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shud have aborted her would have saved you the problem
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I could not agree with you more!However,most of the girls of today that “I know” don’t even buy into that load of crap!They are just as terrifying as the boys!!When were growing up we were often told boys will be boys,and yes,the boy just likes you.My daughter for one, wasn’t having it,she’s 18 now ,but I can still recall when she was smaller, if the little boys”liked her” they often were the ones running to the teacher. I taught her better by example as well.She’s never seen mommy getting hit on,because mommy wasn’t having it.Not to say I can/would beat up on,or kill someone(hopefully it never goes to that extent),but ,rather first take necessary legal steps to eliminate the problem before anything else(not that it always works,we have butt-wipes everywhere). I am a tiny woman,she is a small young lady, and neither of us are fans of pain.
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Bravo!!! *claps hands*
If only every parent were so intelligent as you. Thank you for this, it hits home for me especially (no pun intended.) I grew up in a home were this kind of “abuse” was deemed acceptable. “don’t worry honey, your father had to beat you till you couldn’t walk. Its how he shows his love and respect for you. It teaches you how to behave in society.” no, what that teaches, is FEAR; of him, of making mistakes, failing, embarrassment, of not being perfect. And finally it perpetuates that stupid line, “he only hurts you because he loves you.”
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I absolutely agree with where you’re going, although I think – to a certain degree – you fall into the ‘children are just like adults, but smaller’ trap.
Should we be teaching our children (both boys and girls) how to properly respond to their feelings (ie through friendly words and actions, not aggressive words and actions)? Absolutely.
But is a six-year old a ‘jerk’ or ‘bad’ for teasing somebody the like? No, they just don’t know any better yet – there’s no mens rea. A six year old hitting somebody they like is emphatically NOT the same as an adult hitting somebody they’re in a relationship with.
The solution is to teach our children to be better – not to shame them for what comes naturally to them.
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While I see the point, I didn’t bother reading past the point where it says “boys hit girls”! I know plenty of girls that hit my son, and he doesn’t hit back because he just is not that type of child. I have always taught him that it is not okay to hit anyone period.
This perspective just created another stereotype that we as a society do not need to share because I found this offensive and it angers me actually.
Next time, please write for an entire audience before blasting young kids and putting them in another box so you can take your child out of one.
And while I know other people probably addresses this issue before me. Thank you for sticking up for your kids. This is irresponsible writing.
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Reblogged this on gwendolynfaker and commented:
❤
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I remember when I was in 6th grade, my mother told me that a certain boy was pulling off my stocking cap on the playground because he liked me and was too immature to know how else to express his interest. She told me to either ignore it or tell him to knock it off–and let her know if it continued. I wasn’t interested in him but at least I understood where he was coming from and didn’t feel hurt or abused. Knowing that was empowering. Also, I learned a valuable lesson: Don’t work up a frenzy of rage and create a drama over something that’s just mildly annoying. Ultimately, as I recall, I said, “Yeah, whatever, Jason,” and waited until he dropped the cap before retrieving it with an air of nonchalance. The behavior stopped.
The reality is that boys do act this way–and girls can set firm boundaries without sending cortisol through their systems as they talk themselves into the idea that they are victims. THAT to me is a much bigger problem that a little bit of an annoyance: The message to wear the mantle of VICTIM and embrace one’s powerlessness.
I actually do like the little card; it’s true! Boys can be immature in how they express affection. Heck, even as men, they punch their friends in the arm to be cool! But we should be compassionate toward them as people even as we set boundaries. Pulling a girl’s pigtail isn’t on par with punching her in the face and it’s not healthy to teach your girl that it is. What matters is that a girl knows she can say “CUT IT OUT!” and be heard and that she can CHOOSE not to blow things out of proportion.
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Thats really well put!
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To all the parent’s saying “children express themselves this way sometimes (sic.)” well, when I was in the first grade my best friends were two boys, named George and Steven (I still remember!). If parents raise their children to view the opposite gender as an alien life form -well- that hurts the empathy process, it’s better to just raise children as children. Not “little men” or “little women”….In fact I didn’t even know racism was a thing until a few years later as well. what I’m saying is, maybe violence could be avoided altogether if children could just relate to each other as people….it’s not a maybe even, it’s true!
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I fucking love this!! I endured having my ass grabbed daily on the bus for years, and got “protection” from a football player which I then felt obligated to go on a date with. I didn’t have a problem telling him NO but then my “protection” vanished as well. If my daughter told me that something like this was happening to her, I’d be on that bus myself ASAP, if not punching those little assholes in the face myself!
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Thank you for this post!!!
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Reblogged this on gusology and commented:
Well said.
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I stumbled across this post via Flipboard and I just wanted to leave a comment telling you how much I AGREE! I have a 3 yr old son and we are focusing on raising him to be a gentleman and to respect himself, his peers, us (parents), his teachers, etc. He has been very fortunate to have a wonderful upbringing so far with two great male role models in my dad and my fiancé. We talk about our feelings with him regularly, are strict about rules, and we are teaching him manners. To us manners include general manners, table manners, and gentleman manners (walk a lady to her car, open the door/hold it open, etc.) So many children we are around are not being taught how to respect themselves, their parents, their teachers, their peers, etc. I have witnessed little boys actually hitting their mothers!!! NOT acceptable! My goal as a parent is to raise a confident gentleman who sticks up for himself, the picked on & abused and who is respectful without being a doormat. If we happen to have a daughter in the future, my goal will also be to raise a lady who has self respect, confidence, and who doesn’t take crap from anyone. If I fail at those goals, I fail as a parent. It is our job as parents to teach our kids by example and by having open communication with them about what is acceptable and what is not. So many parents out there aren’t actually taking the time to parent! It is wonderful to know that there are other parents out there with the same views and opinions as us!
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Reblogged this on Armed RevolutioKnits and commented:
I heard this as a child and adolescent. I think we also have to ask why boys feel the need to express themselves this way, if it’s true that they’re mean to the girls they like.
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Yes Yes Yes!!! Thank you for writing this, and it has been posted and forwarded on!
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I don’t buy for one minute that this is a double standard. At my Elementary school, there were countless incidents of fifth-grade girls going up to third-grade boys, socking them in the face, and when the boys were about to retaliate, said in a sing-song voice, “Boys can’t hit giiiirrrrls!” It happened to me once. I told several teachers about it; two of them said that it meant she liked me, while another laughed at me because, hey, what’s funnier than a boy getting his ass walloped by a girl?
Men and boys nowadays live in total fear of women and girls. They’re afraid to express their true feelings for them due to draconian sexual harassment laws, they constantly check their speech to make sure that nothing they say could even remotely be taken as offensive by any women or girls in the vicinity, and if they dare to defend themselves against a woman assaulting them, they’ll be locked up.
You say that you plan to teach your sons to respect women. Why not also teach your daughters to respect men? Few parents ever consider this, and we end up with a bunch of wimpy, ineffectual men who think that their being able to sit there and take abuse from a woman is a sign of their strength, and a bunch of selfish, entitled women who don’t know how to communicate with a man through any other means than their fists.
Respect is a two-way street. I sincerely hope you realize that.
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You’re very right!
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There os a HUGE difference between a kindergarden boy pushing a girl because he doesn’t know how else to express affection and a grown man abusing his wife. Even between the kindergardener and a ten yr old. Ten year old boys are being abusive and it should have been addressed. Younger kids need to be taught by their parents. Ranting and swearing on a blog does not solve the problem. Communication with your children will.
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Also a good point.
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No one’s saying the actions of the kindergartner or the ten-year-old are the same as those of an abusive adult — but condoning the sometimes physically violent ways kids act in the name of affection can set a very dangerous precedent for them later in life. The simple message is that it’s important to communicate with our kids from an early age about how we relate to and treat others.
And blogging about problems doesn’t tend to solve, well, ANY problems. Not directly. But that’s not why blogs exist. They’re for ranting, discussion, and other expression.
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have you seen the movie “He’s Just Not That into You?” They address this in that movie. My daughter got the crap knocked out of her in the 4th grade by a boy on several occasions and that’s what the school tried to tell me. It wasn’t until I threatened to go to the school board that it stopped. He literally punched her in her shoulder while wearing a sling b/c she had broken it. He kicked her in the leg when on crutches (yeah, she had a lot of injuries that year), picked her up by her shirt, etc… Maybe he did like her but I will never teach my daughter it’s okay to be with a boy who abuses her. you go!
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THIS A THOUSAND TIMES, THIS!
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Well said, and though I only have a son, if I had a daughter I would feel exactly the same way.
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You’re absolutely right. Great post. And I will most certainly educate my own daughter on this when it happens to her.
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I think the same thing, and have told my girls as much before. I think there is a grain of truth to the idea that “he just likes you”, messed up as that may be. But all that means to me is that we need to teach our boys better how to handle emotions and relating to other people. It certainly does not mean that we should be teaching are girls to explain it away and accept poor behavior. Hopefully, that boy will learn. In the meantime, let’s teach our kids to find the ones that already treat them well.
This does happen to boys, too, as some have pointed out here. (It happened to me more than once.) But, let’s be realistic. In a society where the boys are [still] taught to be the aggressors, this happens a lot more often to girls. I’m usually pretty sensitive to arguments that leave out the male side of whatever is going on, and have been accused of derailing once or twice. But I don’t see this as one of those arguments. Just as the beginning of the discussion. You wrote from your experience without (IMO) any denial of anyone else’s.
Thank you.
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And the church says: AMEN. I’m sure that if I told my brothers that some boy hit me that’d be the last time that kid drew breath. We must said better messages to our children. Our girls need to know what is affectionate and boys need to know how to display their affections properly.
Kudos.
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While I agree with almost everything this post addresses, I would urge the author to lay off the Ani and consider shaving her legs more often. Interesting she would condemn children for not knowing how to deal with their emotions but advocate slapping a person in order to get her point across. Can’t have it both ways , Einstein.
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Any activities by young boys that would best be described as bullying should of course be dealt with as such and not tolerated. But in the sometimes case where a boy actually does like the girl, he are trying to relate to the girl in the same way that he relates to other boys – through roughhousing. He probably isn’t mature enough to be able to think of a different way, and to just label him as “an asshole” does not do him any justice either.
In this instance, saying “oh he just likes your daughter” may be accurate, but the conversation shouldn’t stop there. The answer as I see it is that the boy’s parents and/or teachers need to help the boy see the more socially appropriate way to play with, and relate others who do not appreciate the rough play. That is what will help the boy to mature into someone who understand how to relate to different types of people.
IMO of course.
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Holy crap, this lady is a psychopath.
“I want my daughter to know that the boy called her ugly or pushed her or pulled her hair didn’t do it because he admires her, it is because he is a little asshole and assholes are an occurrence of society that will have to be dealt with for the rest of her life.”
It’s more likely because he’s a 10 year old, and that’s an awkward stage of life for boys. Or, hell, anyone.
When a boy hits/shoves/pushes a girl he likes, it should definitely have consequences, and it’s not OK to brush it off as affection. But if we can’t deliver the consequences without calling a kid a bunch of expletives and acting like he’s a junior monster, than he’s not going to get any better.
Kids are horrible sometimes, because they’re still learning not to be. We deal with it as best we can, and hope they’ll grow up to be well adjusted adults. Better so, at least, than the author.
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Very true!
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Having read through the entire post and most of the comments, yours most closely relates to how I feel. I am the mom of 3 boys. And say whatever you want about it, but boys are very different animals than girls and some of it has not a damn thing to do with how we raise them, but more with how they are wired. I think all kids go through an awkward stage where expressing themselves is difficult at best. I think automatically condemning them based on one act is crazy and inappropriate. Just as crazy and inappropriate as the behaviors queen is pissed off about.
@queen, I was teased and bullied, and I remember even back then knowing the difference between the one who was awkward and trying to get my attention, and the one who was just plain mean. I followed the proper channels with the school back then and in jr high it wound up with me taking it to the school board because of two boys who would not leave me alone. The schools response had been that I must have been egging it on and that boys will be boys….The final response from all of them was to tell my mom I needed counseling. I have never wound up in an abusive relationship, my husband and I have been married for 10 years and as I said earlier have 3 boys, but we wrestle with them, and play with them and yes we tease them….and we are extremely playful with each other…so if my young son were to tell a girl he thinks she is as cute as his lizard, he isn;t being mean, he is paying her a high compliment in his book, and its a shame when you aren’t bright enough to tell the difference and instead respond that he is just being an asshole.
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I completely agree with your point; however, I also teach my girls along with respecting themselves they do not need to resort to constant swearing either. When one has self-respect one does not need to resort to foul language to prove a point. Also an adult calling a child “little asshole” is not acceptable either. I’m sure if you found out some mother called your daughter “a little bitch” you wouldn’t be to fond of that. You seem like an intelligent woman and I don’t think you need to use foul language to get your point across. I just find it all very distracting.
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I agree that this is, of course, a ridiculous and disturbing thing thing to tell children, and any teacher passing this old chestnut on needs to have its absurdity pointed out.
But I believe it’s also important to remember that the child who engages in this behavior is not an “asshole,” but a kid in need of guidance and intervention about the proper way to relate to others. I’d hate to see a 10-year-old written off in that way. At that age, they’re still young enough to learn better.
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You are my new superhero!
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Oh, that Beefcake/John Doe bloke probably just likes you….
🙂
(Okay – that was seriously a joke. Love the blog. More please!)
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OK, that literally made me lol. 🙂
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BAHAHAHA!
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Are you or were you ever married? Pity the male. Your “handle” implies QueenoftheRoost. And just a comment, you have a bit of a foul manner of speaking. Kids will be kids both boys and girls. It is their nature to seek attention and establish their self worth and authority. This is intially done through gender peer groups. Some carry this to the extent of bullying. Laws will never stop this. Nor will police in schools. These measures will only criminalize childhood and set these individuals on a hard path.
Kids do this because they have not been wholely molded to adult life and responsibility. This is the parents job and to a lesser extent the schools when in the role of loci parenti.
Agree with Kelli quite a bit.
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I’m all about eradicating false truths like that! Thank you for this!
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The sad thing is that it might actually be the only way the little boys know to give a girl attention. This sort of behavior can’t just be stopped by educating little girls, parents need, as you said, to educate their sons as well, that this is not acceptable.
This type of thing also sounds like an extension of adult dismissal of bullying.
Also just to point out, it’s a two way street in a way. I know first hand that if a girl abuses a guy, even up to teen-hood, an adults reaction is to say “it probably means she likes you”.
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Reading all the positive responses, I’m not going to reiterate praise in relation to respecting interactions between people, etc.
However, I do want to say that it probably is beneficial to your daughter that she know that not all the boys in class don’t like her, it’s important that she understand that they are misguided in their attempts to show affection and their behavior is unacceptable, but that they are most likely attempting to show affection—I think it is equally important for a young child to know they are liked by the people around them as it is for them to learn to avoid those who can’t show feelings in a respectful way.
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Bravo!!!
I’m 6 months pregnant with my first child – a boy – and this will definitely be something I keep in mind when he gets to that age. I would be horrified, and insanely angry, if anyone ever tried to tell him or me and my partner that violence = love. Conversely, I will also teach him that any physical violence he experiences from any girls (or boys) will never equal “liking” someone.
Thanks for putting this out there!
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Thanks so much for your essay. I was horribly bullied in elementary school, and the “they just like you” line allowed the treatment to continue rather than being addressed.
I’ll definitely be taking a route like yours should I have children.
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AMAZING. Thank you so much for addressing this problem. I’m so thankful someone is raising their children to appreciate respect and boundaries.
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i love this. and yes, explain all this to the girls… and explain some things to those boys, as well! That is not how you treat a girl you like.. they may be on hormonal over-drive in some situations, they need to know to channel it.
great post! *sharing*
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you’re my hero. this is awesome.
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I was on the receiving end of this type of attention from a boy 2 years older when I was in kindergarten back in the mid 70’s. I vaguely recall at this point how he used to get in my way during recess. Essentially his MO was interfere with my play to get in my way to wreck whatever I was trying to build enough so that other kids got annoyed that he had attached himself to me and didn’t want me to play with them. I gather it went on for a month before I laid him out. I do recall he stepped in my way one more time and I hauled off and punched him in the face. His ass hit the ground. I got a detention and my mother got called in. She told me later the teachers had been watching this go on for a month or so and were surprised I lasted as long as I did. But they had a no violence policy and so they had to give me a detention but she asked my mom not to be too hard on me.
I have no problem with what I did. He had it coming. He was thwarting my freedom of being and it was harassment. Part of me is of the mind that kids are losing the ability to learn how to take care of themselves and negotiate solutions with how much hovering our generation is doing. But in my instance.. why did this crap go on for a month? Why was I left to my own devices to solve this problem and get in trouble when I finally did. Frankly I really believe he should have gotten the detention for being a nuisance and had harassment explained to him. And for the record I really don’t have a problem with kids inflicting violence on others in the name of self defense. It is an acceptable response in my view and frequently ends the problem faster than anything else has, it just shouldn’t have to get to that point. He just likes you as a pat answer to unwanted attention is really unacceptable. And no girl or boy should ever have to put up with it.
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Fantastic, fantastic, fantastic. So glad there is at least one parent in the world like you. Thanks for everything you do for your children and for the world.
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Bullying and teasing are different things… still, well said. But the sad thing is, I believe there is some truth to the idea that a boy who picks on a girl likes her. The real problem here is less about what we say to our girls and more about what we say to our boys. Everyone should be teaching their BOYS from a young age that if they like a girl they shouldn’t pick on them!! Instead boys are taught that girls are “icky” and that being sweet makes them “sissies.” So if they have affectionate feelings towards someone, they act out and harass the thing that’s making them feel mushy, because no one ever told them how or what to do otherwise or that it’s okay to feel otherwise. The little boys aren’t assholes- their parents are.
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Amen again! When i worked as a conflict resolution expert for our school district (superintendent’s representative was the title) dealing with discipline inequity, i must have called the central office 100 times after a case to report, “let’s just give the kid a new name and ‘lost records’ and start him/her in a different school with some good remedial relationship training — but can we arrest the parents?!?” They co-facilitated and made excuses for so much evil and then put down their kids they supposedly were defending. I once had to order a parent NOT to call his own son a son-of-a-bitch anymore in my hearing room. And how many times did i see a kid who was acting out being the adult when their dysfunctional parent was in the room? I think all parents should be required to pass tests and renew their license every year… just ‘cuz ya got gonads doesn’t mean you should be allowed to raise your poor offspring.
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For the debate on whether boys “understand” that their behavior is inappropriate…when they get socked in the nose for hitting a girl, they’ll learn. They’ll learn very quickly
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and even if they ‘don’t understand’ does that mean we just accept it? When my son hit a girl i didn’t say “that’s ok, he just likes her’ i talked to him about why it’s wrong to hit girls, because parents are supposed to teach their children right from wrong, how else are they going to learn and grow to understand why it’s not appropriate?
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EXACTLY!
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What did you say to the teacher who said that to your daughter? 🙂
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I believe it has more to do with the stage of the neurological development cycle, and not that it’s ok to let boys hit/tease/etc girls.
At that point, boys generally are not able to express their feelings in the adult way, and are transitioning from the “girls are the same as boys, and are gender neutral” or “girls are gross” stage to the “girls are cute, I want a girlfriend” stage.
And, girls have been known to do the same exact thing at that stage of development.
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Oh man, you are so right!
I taught my daughter @ age 3 to respond to this by holding the boy by the shirtfront and yelling full blast into his face “YOU CAN’T DO THAT TO ME!!” She hasn’t had a problem since. She has, however been reported for ‘anti-social behavior’ for defending herself against this kind of violence. That’s society for ya.
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There must have been a lot of gay boys at my school if this was true.
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I have two children- a son and a daughter. Abuse is not acceptable period. The shitty thing is that it was my son who was abused last year by some amazon kindergarter who got jealous because he decided that he didn’t want to play with her. He told me that he kept asking him to chase her, and he didn’t want to. He took another girl up on her offer to play somewhere else. When amazon girl saw that he was walking away to play with another little girl, she flipped out, picked him up by his feet and dragged him across the playground. I still have photos of the cuts and bruises. His whole ribcage was swollen on one side with welts. Unfortunately we live in a society where treatment is NOT equal. Girls rarely get punished for their crimes the way that boys do. This little girl got a “talk”. Had my son done the same thing- he would have surely been expelled. Funny how someone said “She probably just likes him” to me. I feel just as furious about it as you do.
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This should be posted in CAPITAL LETTERS at EVERY school, household, oh this should be EVERYWHERE!!! Cheers to you my friend! What an amazing woman you MUST be!
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Well, this has been interesting reading. Thankfully, I don’t have to deal with this anymore, but someday I’ll have grandchildren (Lord willing). I hope that I can help their parents instill a sense of self-worth without their feeling they have to report every childish infraction.
I was that girl. You know the one….. in 3rd grade, I chased boys to kiss them. In 5th grade, they chased me to kiss me. In 7th grade, I was the only girl in my school wearing a C cup, they had absolutely no idea how to handle it (cuz you KNOW they wanted to handle them), and it just got worse from there. The boys? They picked on me because they had raging hormones and no FREAKING idea how to deal with them. I just smacked them back, I didn’t go tell my mom. I knew what was going on. When their buddies weren’t around we were friends, but when the guys were together they were pretty much socially unacceptable until we were Seniors(and then it was iffy). I dated a few of them in high school, and they acted like gentlemen and treated me like a lady.
So yes, I will educate my grandchildren, as I educated my children. They will not accept abuse as normal, but they will also understand that not everyone has the same parents, not everyone has the same culture, and that stupid, childish actions are not always the precursor to a penchant for dispensing abuse. And yes, I will tell my granddaughters that sometimes he smacks you on the arm because he likes you and has no idea how to express himself. That doesn’t mean you sit there and take it. That also doesn’t mean he’s going to beat his wife, it probably means that he thinks girls are still supposed to be icky and doesn’t know why he feels all funny inside. I have a son – we talk at length, and I had to educate him on the proper way to express these feelings.
By the way, I’ve talked to those guys at our high school reunions, and they are wonderful, caring fathers and husbands, and we are still good friends.
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I’m always trying to find the fine line between teaching boundaries and preventing narcissism. I’ve seen parenting go too far in either direction…
But I know you are absolutely right on this matter.
I work hard to teach my two daughters (2 and 3 yrs old) to talk through every dispute. “Did you ask her to stop pushing you? Tell her it’s not ok. If she doesn’t listen to you, then come tell me.” I want their first impulse to be standing up for themselves, and speaking up when they feel mistreated.
So when they come home and share a similar story with me, I will absolutely be all over it. I expect them to learn to stand up for themselves. But if it doesn’t work (face it, they’re kids. They need help.), I want them to know from example that injustice is not to be tolerated.
If I had boys, I’d teach them the exact same thing.
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I was an bookish, skinny, mildly Aspergery kid. I stood out, and it wasn’t ever good. I had traditional, but intelligent and loving parents. I knew about the boys who teased the girls they liked. I knew about how to deal with a bully, not that I ever had the self confidence to ever put that knowledge to work. I knew what was reasonable, and what I wasn’t going to be able to explain away.
I say all this because I was “the problem” that we’re talking about. I poked a couple girls and pulled their hair, exclusively because I had a crush on them. I had a crush on a lot of girls, so I have a bit more first-hand knowledge about this than I’d like.
I could have told you 10 seconds before, as well as 10 seconds after pulling someone’s hair that it was inappropriate behavior, and I earnestly would not have desired to do it. WITHIN those moments, however, there is no internal logic that could have directed me away from doing it, it was just what was going to happen.
I don’t consider that bullying, a bully in my mind is about a pattern. I was to no one what any of the bullies in my past were to me. I crossed a line of appropriateness, occasionally, that I had to learn not to cross, and I did.
I wanted to say I couldn’t imagine ever grabbing a girl and taking something from her. I never did anything that inexcusable, but I can see how it could unfold. I would have gotten in more trouble than I could have possibly processed, and it would have been justified. From that, like so many other things about growing up, I would have learned just enough FEAR to keep me out of trouble until I matured and experienced enough to UNDERSTAND why it was wrong in the first place.
I guess I’m just saying there is a balance to be found:
Be careful not to expect, or teach your daughters to expect, a level of control that isn’t reasonable from our sons… but don’t you dare let them think they have to tolerate it.
Boys can grow up, but we aren’t born men, and we don’t get to maturity as fast as girls… but you don’t let your sons ever use that as an excuse for behaving badly. There is a basic level of respect we extend to each other, always, NOT having that is not ok.
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I’ve been using detente wrong for 20 years… thats embarrassing.
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You have negated your entire point, which is, I think, how to be a better parent on this issue, with your foul language. You had me until the first “F” bomb. As PTA President, I can not share this message with my fairly large network of teachers, parents, mayors, and councilors because of the profanity. Good writers know you can send a very strong message without cursing. (I am also a full time published writer) Yours could have been a good one, but you negate your “good example” by setting a bad one. I have to agree with other commenters who are not alone in thinking this piece of ‘writing’ is self indulgent and obnoxious.
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Really, a PTA President and published writer (whatever that means in this digital age of self-publishing) can’t edit this blog post to remove the profanity if desired? It can still be shared as “based on” the original work, or even with a note saying “Edited for language” with the web address of the original post provided.
Get off your high horse. I agree with you that her point could have been made without the cussing, but it’s her blog- she can be “self-indulgent” if she wants to.
Related but slightly off-topic (because really everything I would say has been said), what I don’t get is the pervasive idea that, if teasing bothers someone, they should “get over it” because it was “just meant as a joke”. So?? If it was just meant as a joke, then the appropriate response is to apologize and not do it again, because hurt feelings were not your intention. Whoever is being teased is not required to grow a thicker skin. They may choose to in order to affect their social interactions, but then it’s THEIR choice.
And oh my god, people, if you want to be listened to learn how to spell. I can handle cussing, but trying to dissect poorly written comments is a waste of my time.
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I want to marry you.
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Lady, pull the stick out of your ass and think for a second. You don’t have to pass around this particular article to get the message out. In fact, if the rest of your community is as uptight as you are, it would probably be best to repackage the message. Either way, the point is the same.
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“You have negated your entire point, which is, I think, how to be a better parent on this issue, with your foul language.”
Why? Why is the entire argument negated by F-bombs? There’s no reasoning whatever given for it, I just keep seeing people state it as simple fact that Swearing is the Worst and We Shouldn’t Listen to You if You Use It!
In any case, the OP didn’t write this article for the consumption of your PTA, she wrote it for her own blog, where tones tend to be less formal, so those of us inclined to swear often do so. Because it’s still essentially our personal space. And I think good writers (as diverse, elusive, and subjective a category as that may be), linguists, and anyone who spends some time thinking about language must also realize that while there are myriad ways to express oneself, and while one obviously doesn’t have to swear, there is no real replacement for swear words and their power. No synonyms that have the same impact. That’s why they’re swear words — so, perhaps ironically, to really give them power you have to rarely use them or they become commonplace. This is rapidly becoming a tangent, but I think it is so ludicrous when people say that we should simply use other words (in someone else’s personal forum, no less), because those other words don’t exist. Not ones that achieve the tone the author probably wanted, anyway.
To get back to my original question, if you find something worthy in this article on ethical, logical, moral, etc. grounds, something that would have made it worth sharing with the aforementioned PTA, how are those traits lessened any by the swearing? If this were a post on “How to be a better parent by not swearing ever” then yes, the f bombs would perhaps be a little bit hard to swallow. As it is, those other points still exist — you simply have to excise some of the language you find objectionable.
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WOW I never thought about it that way! !!!
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Too true, and I love your “slap, I love you” response. I also taught my daughter that if a boy hit her, she was free to hit him back. Then when confronted (because you know an adult is going to jump down on her for that) look confused and say “oh, I thought we were playing the hitting game”. she has brothers, trust me, she can hit pretty hard. And before someone disagres that violence should not beget violence. When boys are held 100% accountable for their actions, then we can get to the subject of like kind retialiation.
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When I was in fourth grade (circa early 1980’s), there was a little boy who was hitting me on the playground on a daily basis, hard enough to bruise my arm. My mom told me that he probably just liked me and that I need to tell the teacher about it when he does it. My dad said, “This is bullshit. Here is how you make a fist. Keep your thumb on the outside and go for the nose first. You don’t allow anyone to hit you like that.” Although it might not be the politically correct response in this day and age, one slug back and the kid never hit me again.
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You need to watch the movie courageous…
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Violence doesn’t solve everything, but it does solve some things. Some boys seem to think it’s ok to resort to violence and hit girls, so why should girls be prevented from responding in kind?
Oh that’s right, girls are meant to be ladylike and just cop the abuse “because he likes her”
Bollocks
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As a new mom to a little girl, I hope that I have your insight and courage when she deals with assholes in their various forms. Thank you for this post! I retweeted and I am going to send to friends!!
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LOVE IT! You are COMPLETELY right! And don’t even get me started on what those friggin Princess movies do to girls…
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Can I take this one step further – and add that it’s not acceptable for girls to hit boys out of “love” either? I had someone tell my son that a girl was making fun of him because she liked him. Really? I don’t want to believe that is a sign of a healthy relationship and, should he meet a girl who believes it is, he should run the other direction. My children (3 boys and a girl) are all taught that affection is gentle and loving and never involves hitting, belittling or teasing.
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Sadly enough, it even goes the other way…the next time I hear my son’s dad ask, “is she cute?” I think I’ll give him the same affection…My son is constantly reminded that everyone needs to always keep their hands, etc. to themselves-however, when out on the playground it seems to be a free-for-all…he’s 9 and I find it HORRIBLY offensive that when he goes to a teacher to ask that they please help him to stop the girls chasing, pinching, etc that he gets told to “stop tattling and go play”- My son has been taught to stand up for himself, no matter who is standing in front of him…I always tell him that if he gives respect, he will get respect…too bad some other parents weren’t told the same along the way…
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I think the simplest way to express this is this: “Violence and harassment are never acceptable ways of showing affection.”
School administrators should be told, “You have a responsibility to teach kids that violence and harassment are never acceptable. It doesn’t matter if the kid thinks he’s being friendly, or funny, it’s not acceptable.”
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So much agree. I’ve seen this manifest in so many different ways, none of them pleasant. Given my social awkwardness and gender variance, I was a fairly easy target for ridicule throughout school, especially by boys. My mom dismissed my complaints with “they probably just like you” for a long time before realizing what was really going on.
It seems like “it’s only because she likes you” is applied to girls too, sometimes in cases of abusive behavior but also in cases where a girl is trying to express active dislike and a wish to be left alone and it bleeds into the idea of “playing hard to get”. “Leave me alone, you jerk!” is somehow parsed as “I want you to keep bothering me” way too often, and sometimes the two sides get combined (“he only bothers her because he likes her/she only retaliates because she likes him”.) Gross.
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This is honestly something I hadn’t really thought about and now that I have I’m so angry. I’ll definitely be passing this on and am so glad a friend passed it on to me. More people need tools like this in preventing their child from growing up to accept violence, thank you.
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WTF its not only boys that pick on girls i remember when i was in school girls picked on boys the same fucking way this fucking oringal post is nothing but a sexiest cunt.i used to get beaten up by girls when i was in elementary school so wtf and there kids for fuck sake they dont kno any better at all wow what a fucking sexiest cunt she is and yes am a adult am allowed to swear if u dont like it GO FUCK UR SELF WITH A SHARP POINTY STICK
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Yes, as an adult you’re allowed to swear… but as an adult you should also learn how to spell and use proper grammar when posting in a public forum and expecting people to listen to your point of view. Otherwise, you just come off as ridiculous and uneducated.
The author never stated that this never happens to boys, so you obviously misunderstood the whole point of this article. Because how often do you hear about women battering men? Sure, it happens… but is it as common as men battering women? Or how about rape? Do women rape men often?
The sad fact is that lessons learned in childhood, whether they come from good or bad experiences, can follow us into adulthood. That was the point of this article, to not teach young girls that it’s okay to be insulted or abused in any way.
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I know I shouldn’t feed you, but how did your brain not explode from the cognitive dissonance as you were typing “sexiest cunt”?
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I love irony! Thank you for pointing it out.
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Reblogged this on and commented:
Something all parents need to read and think about.
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I guess if she gets raped then he REALLY likes you
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Thank you. This was a very insightful article and as a father of a little girl, I appreciate it very much.
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I’ll chime in and say it goes both ways.
When that sort of thing happened to us boys, we got told it was just cause you “girls liked us.”
People need to be taught on all sides…
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Calm down. Your focusing adult levels of aggression at a problem for children. And from the sounds of it your a few steps away from coddling your child into a simpleton who wont be able to defend themselves, let alone think for themselves with mom the lioness watching over. You cant be there forever. So calm down and think it over.
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You know, the pinching and the hair pulling and the name-calling do usually mean “I like you and I don’t know how to express it. My feelings make me confused and awkward and I act roughly because of it.” I can understand that feeling, of searching through the social toolbox to try and find the thing you know how to do that will get the attention of the person you want to notice you.
The thing is, every interaction we have with another human being is training us. When I speak to a friend one way, and she reacts negatively, she is training me not to speak to her that way. If I then change the way I speak to her, I am training her to communicate her expectations to me that way. It’s not a conscious thing in most cases; it’s just a matter of feedback and interaction.
Where I’m going with all this is that even IF the bullying behaviour means one child ‘likes’ another, it’s an opportunity for training. If you pull my hair and I tell you I don’t like you, then maybe you will take ‘pulling hair’ outta your toolbox because it *didn’t work*. If you call me a nasty name and I stop being your friend, you’ll take that out of your skill set. If you tell me “I think you’re cute” and I say “Thank you, I think you’re cute too,” then I’m training you to communicate compliments honestly. If you react positively, you’re training me to accept compliments with sincerity (this, by the way, is why I do not compliment friends who invariably respond with self-deprecation. They have trained me not to be complimentary).
Instead of teaching children “teasing you means he likes you,” let’s teach them to respond to abusive teasing with the simply stated “You’re a bully and I don’t like you,” while getting teachers to tell the bullies, “Maybe you should try a different way to get (kid)’s attention?” If boys and girls give clearly negative feedback, the awkward little bullies will have to find new tools for their toolboxes. You don’t have to defy or be aggressive. Just say, “I don’t like that,” and walk away as well as you can. Tell kids it’s OK to respond to teachers who say “I think he/she just likes you,” with “I only like people who aren’t jerks to me.”
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Fuck. I have done this to my daughter, just as it was done to me. Thank you for pointing out how this perpetuates the cycle. I need to go talk to my kid now.
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It’s amazing how many responses to this post argue that we should view boy-on-girl violence interpretively, and yet lack the interpretive skills necessary to understand that the author doesn’t actually advocate punching grade school administrators.
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I would have thought that would go without explaining. Alas….
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There’s a good reason Brits consider us N Americans “irony-impaired”, sarcasm-incompetents and Olympic level Masters of the Obvious. If you don’t spell things out and point out the point that you made (like the good Methodist sermon that tells you what i’m going to tell you, makes those 3 points and then tells you what i told you), people miss it.
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Well, there is more than enough evidence to that reputation in these comments!
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When I was a kid and was told that a boy being a jerkoff to me meant he ‘liked me,’ it simply didn’t compute. This made NO sense to me at the time: how could that be? If they ‘liked’ me, they would be nice, not dicks or physically hurtful. I remember thinking about it, wondering if that meant the approved method of showing interest in someone, was to be a jerk myself. But it didn’t FEEL right, so I stopped trying and stuck with what did feel right; not being an asshole. Not hurting others.
As I got older, I paid more attention to what I saw happening between younger children, and could see that *sometimes* it was indeed, true. But not always, and the children who did like someone never actually intentionally hurt the object of their affections. Often enough though, it was just bullying, or a kid – male or female – acting out their own private issues against what they perceived as an easy target that could not or would not fight back. I sincerely hope I never make the mistake of answering a child’s complaint with a condescending “that just means they like you”. I could well be utterly incorrect.
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Your Majesty,
Your position is the kind that gets 4th graders suspended for “sexual harrasment” when they don’t know what either word is. Children at this age have neither the knowlege of what their doing nor why they feel like doing, and lack a pre-frontal cortex to figure it out. You are judging children by adult standards which are literally impossible for them to meet. Permit me to suggest that you take a developmental psych class.
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I am ashamed that I didn’t realise this before reading your piece. I have an only son and would hate to think that he expresses “affection” through violence. The parents of boys really need to read this.
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Bravo!!!! And please remember that this goes for boys being treated with no respect from bitchy little girls too! I have seen so many more girls being nasty with boys and other girls – than I ever see boys being nasty to the girls. Girls get away with the “she’s a girl” so she’s allowed to be whiny and bitchy. NO thanks! Please, as long as you are encouraging your girls to be confident, kind women, please don’t allow all the drama to begin when they are young. It is not cute.
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I agree with a lot of what you’re saying here, but I think you’re focusing on playground mistreatment as THE end-all-be-all reason women stay in abusive relationships.
You said: “When the fuck was it decided that we should start teaching our daughters to accept being belittled, disrespected and abused as endearing treatment? And we have the audacity to wonder why women stay in abusive relationships?”
Women stay in abusive relationships for reasons that have nothing to do with believing abuse is a sign of affection. They stay because they have little or no self-esteem, they stay because they are irresistibly attracted to the bad boy image, and many more reasons. You’re making a good point here, but you went a little over-the-top with it.
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Is there no distinction between teaching a little girl how to INTERPRET the actions of the people around her versus how to RESPOND to the actions of the people around her?
I think the explanation as it being affection is by and large and accurate one nonetheless. Your eye-for-an-eye mentality concerns me. She’ll pick that attitude right up from you, Mom.
Obviously, I don’t think it’s appropriate for PEOPLE to abuse other PEOPLE physically or emotionally, but that goes in all directions. Let’s not be hetero-normative please. It seems like you’re implying that women have no ability to abuse others because they’re such gentle, fragile specimens. Let’s not perpetuate a male-dominated society.
Truly I do agree with the idea that its wrong for girls to accept being mistreated and put down. No question. But there’s more than just that in my opinion.
Much love 🙂
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As the father of a little girl, I couldn’t agree with you more about girls needing to not tolerate violence and disrespect. My only concern is your response to the violence and disrespect directed at your daughter is you directing violence and disrespect towards someone else. “If you try and feed MY daughter that crap, you better bring protective gear because I am going to shower you with the brand of “affection” you are endorsing.”. Remember children learn what is acceptable and what isn’t, from home and that sends the message “violence and disrespect is wrong, if someone does that, then be violent and disrespectful to them”.
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This is soooo on target! Thanks for sharing!!!
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THANK YOU!!! Way to make a stand!! This should be shared with everyone.
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Do you mind if I post this on my website as a personal story and link to your blog at the end? I would put it in the womens section of http://www.liberateyourself.co.uk
thanks
Hannah
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Not at all!
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Go for it.
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Here you go: http://www.liberateyourself.co.uk/womens/womens-experiences/you-didnt-thank-me-for-punching-you-in-the-face/
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Totally agree.
Great article!
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holy cow, i remember being told that as a kid and accepting it and it honestly never occurred to me until right now how absolutely stupid and wrong it it. thank you for this. i will make sure my son knows the difference between loving and abusive.
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this is hillarious i have a daughter. I know that it actually means that he does like her because when i was small i did the same thing. I used to hit girls that i liked. but now that i have grown up i understand it is wrong and i dont hit my wife. when you are a little boy it is easier to hit then talk to and that is all part of childhood. but if your daughter is so weak as to allow this to ruin her life then by all means shelter her from this ongoing childhood evil. in my books you are way way over reacting. either that or the boy that used to like you doesnt anymore and your just pissed.
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love it! my mother never fed me that load of crap when i was younger!!! my little sister was getting notes saying i hate you and youre not my friend and got BIT by another girl (so hard it actually left a mark)and she was afraid to say something cause they have a “dont squeal unless its a big deal” policy. finally she told my mother but as soon as she realized my mom was calling the teacher, she freaked out and said she bit HERSELF! and then the teacher BELIEVED HER! and told her not to lie even though the bite mark was clearly in a spot where she couldnt have done it herself. the teacher said the other girl only said mean things to her cause she “Wanted to be friends but didnt know how to ask” load. of. crap. love this article. i agree that this should be read by everyone
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As long as you also teach your daughter to look for the nice guys who don’t slam into her for attention as possible dating material as well.
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As the father of two girls, can I just say how much I love this?
Pure awesomeness. I was so glad to have had this passed on to me, and you better believe I am sharing the hell out of this.
Thanks so much!
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I am so grateful to have fathers read this and understand, without twisting words, what I am saying. Your daughters are truly blessed to have such an open minded dad!
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Can I link to this in my blog? I’m about to write about Chris Brown.
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Be my guest!
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Well said! I’m thinking I should find and punch you because, after this piece, I find I like you a lot.
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Anyone who hurts her physically or emotionally doesn’t deserve her respect, friendship or love
I was with you 100% until that line. Please, whatever you do, don’t reach your daughter to be self-righteous and selfish enough to think that every time she feels bad, it’s the other person’s fault.
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This is a load of crap. Nothing exists in a vacuum in this world. Sure sometimes it is merely a boy being mean, but other times it is merely a boy who does not know how to express his feelings. So why don’t most of you women friggin relax and judge each situation on its merits….ya know like you were raised to do or at the very least have figured out after growing the F up and becoming an adult.
PS – I argue for a living so just save it……
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You know, I *would* save it but I’m tired of the whole, ‘keep your mouth shut and don’t cause trouble’ kind of mentality that women in my age group were conditioned into adopting as we grew up. Also I don’t recall seeing any of us women reacting with anger and belligerence to this article… only men. Interesting, yes? Maybe if *you* had grown the F up and become an adult, you’d be able to argue without ranting and looking irrational.
This article isn’t about judging boys who don’t know how to express their feelings. Like the other guys who have blown this way out of proportion, you see this as an attack on your gender. It’s not. It urges us to NOT teach our daughters that it’s okay to be treated poorly, for whatever reason. You and the others who have left abusive comments are treating the author of this post, and any other women who agree with her, poorly. Perhaps you just don’t know how to express your feelings properly.
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I don’t agree entirely with all of the points you’ve made but I was just noticing that myself – the women who have either disagreed or felt that it was in some ways unfair to oys did not go apoplectic to get that point across
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Good observation! I’ve seen many women disagree with either the post or other commenters and they aren’t insulting and freaking out. *nod*
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You argue for a living? Well, then I guess I should just go back to the kitchen and make you a PIE!
Of course each situation should be judged on its own. Of course. Duh. But — as I’m sure you know, being all lawyerish (I assume) — generalities can be helpful as a starting point.
Now I’ll go back and start on that pie.
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You’d think he’d be better at it, then…
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There is a context and a limit to everything, and kids are still figuring that out when they’re young. There should be two things you try to teach your child:
a) when to let something roll off your back
b) when to put a stop to it
… both of which follow from the main point: if you have confidence in yourself, other people won’t be able to make you feel bad. I know you’re talking specifically about things that probably mostly fall in the “now it’s time to make it stop” category, but I think people have abused the notion of self-esteem to the point where they don’t allow *anything* to roll off their backs and must make *everything* stop, and that’s just as destructive as assimilating inappropriate behaviors as appropriate. I guess I just feel the need to express that there’s always a level of nuance involved in here that hinders applying this as a single, universal way to deal with these sorts of issues, and don’t trust people to make that distinction on their own. Part of the reason we find ourselves here to begin with is because people don’t make the distinction between this kind of bullying and behavior that is just a misguided attempt at social contact.
The “it just means he likes you” line is bullshit precisely because it’s a default response without any genuine analysis of the situation.
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I mostly agree with what you say. However it is also wrong to say you will go around as a mother slapping 10 year old boys or their parents or teachers for doing or saying things to your daughter. If abusive behaviour is NEVER acceptable then it is NEVER acceptable. Right?
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I never once said I would slap a child, thankyouverymuch.
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queenofthecouch, you said:
“Now, with that said, when it comes to my children, I wouldn’t hesitate to, literally, become physically violent in the name of protecting any one of them.”
“I never once said I would slap a child, thankyouverymuch.”
Would you get physically violent toward children to protect your children? And how far? (It was obvious to me you were not serious about slapping administrators, but I thought from the first statement above you’d be willing to slap a child, which is why I why surprised by the second statement.)
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Do you really think that you can marry those two comments to mean that I would become physically violent with a child?
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Do I honestly think I can marry the two statements, as if I have divined your meaning? Quite the opposite. The two statements don’t go together at all, so I’m not going to try to marry them! I asked because the second made me think I’d misread the intent of the first statement, perhaps colored by the 3 comments to it above by Dawn etc. Let me put it more abstractly, and perhaps less directed at you personally: If a little kid tried to grab someone’s daughter and the parent slapped them, is that always bad? I just thought you were maybe being hard core protective. Your first statement is not definitive either way on that.
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(Clarification: I meant: the two statements, AS I FIRST UNDERSTOOD THEM, didn’t fit together. And I don’t know how far you’d go in using violence to protect your kids. I don’t have kids, and am meek.
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How refreshing!! A friend just sent me this and I LOVE you!!!! Great article and humor.
I just had this same conversation ,( language and all) I was as frustrated .This topic of disrespect among children makes me very passionate,often the apples do not fall far from the tree. I too have a 10 year old sweet reserved beautiful girl and the bullying from girls was already …….but I heard a mom say almost those exact words to her daughter a couple of weeks ago and I almost lost my mind!!!! I turned to my daughter when we got into the car ready to slam that comment ( in an appropriate mother to daughter way)and she said,”mommy that is not how you treat someone if you like them, I don’t think her mom really understands.”
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I would also like to point out that in a situation where one person is teasing another, it is a total power play. By asserting authority over another person, it creates a truly negative dynamic. By assuming that either girls or boys have to subject themselves to a subservient position in a relationship (however childish) because teasing (mean or otherwise) is a sign of affection is incredibly misguided.
I have been in adult relationships where teasing is a form of veiled hostility. Behaviors that are condoned on the playground usually transfer into patterns in adult life. Best to call a halt right now.
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@badbadwebbis. Yes and hallelujah!
Let’s try put this more blandly and PC-ly:
The entire POINT of this blog is to teach young humans not to take abuse – but to counter it in the most appropriate assertive form. Gender aside. Nevertheless, our unfortunate world does not leave gender aside when it comes to training it’s human young – which has unfortunate repercussions though-out an individual’s life. That individual, if counseled incorrectly by the prominent adult mentors in its life usually is held back by the social sanctioning long internalized and ends up dealing with baggage they would not have needed to carry had they been counseled well. Being held back in life due to feelings of inferiority inferred by such comments following abuse is analogous in many cases to the old cliche “she asked for it” still being used even by police in many places in the world to a rape victim. The victim is rendered powerless and confused. And open to more abuse in the future. Wise, corrective parenting and mentoring now can stem many future ills.
Did anyone get this?
It’s making a statement to all those adults who will hopefully read this to be aware of the subliminal messages they send when training the next generation.
And finally (if unnecessarily): The expletives were merely shock value and catharsis. Literary shock-decorations of emphasis, if you will. Future repliers – please read the posted comments before making an irrelevant point. it gets very old.
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Please don’t think it’s only boys to blame. My son has a girl that keeps kicking/hitting him.
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It’s true that boys often haven’t been taught how to respectfully express their feelings. It is also true that violence is Never an acceptable way to do it.
I urge people to remember that violence is Learned.
Someone Taught (more likely Demonstrated) that little boy to use violence against other people.
Violence among children must be addressed immediately and with seriousness, but then After that focus on the kid who demonstrated the violence not as a perpetrator but as a likely victim.
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The same happens to boys as well though. Like my Jake (7). A girl pushed him on the floor, really hurting him. She actually told him she was in love with him. I was very surprised when I saw it but he told me she does somethingsimilar every day. What do I tell him? She hates you? No. I tell he should tell her to stop if he doesn’t like it, but he’s afraid she will be upset!!!! Please don’t give boys a bad name. girls are just
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Thank you! A voice of reason! My son was given welts/bruises across his ribcage from a GIRL who liked him. She didn’t even get punished, yet MY SON is looked at as a potential predator. Funny how feminists say they want equality, but they really want special treatment. It’s not okay for boys or girls to put their hands on eachother period. Hands are for helping, not for hurting.
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“Funny how feminists say they want equality, but they really want special treatment….”
Because when anything negative happens to a male, it’s the fault of those EVIL FEMINISTS.
You know, I might have taken your point seriously, but with statements like that, you’re simply defeating your own argument.
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This is probably part of the reason that so many girls tweeted that Chris Brown could beat them any time….
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I don’t necessarily disagree with this – and yes, abuse is wrong. But I don’t think you can lump all teasing as abusive quite as broadly as is described here. Some teasing (not all!) is pretty harmless. Obviously when someone is uncomfortable or hurt it has crossed the line. The biggest issue is that adults need to stop putting their own spin on kids actions (“how cute” or “he’s an asshole”) and look at what is really happening. Find a teachable moment, and teach both kids when possible. It’s important for kids to learn how to respect others’ boundaries, and for us as adults to teach (And model) appropriate ways to set boundaries. Honestly, there are a lot of adults who don’t understand that either.
“Anyone who hurts her physically or emotionally doesn’t deserve her respect, friendship or love.”
In issues of personal safety, yes – the first goal should be to be safe and remove yourself from an unsafe situation. I have been there. I’ve acted on this. But the above statement is pretty broad – and a pretty heavy-handed message for a kid to try and interpret. Setting appropriate boundaries can solve most solvable issues without cutting someone out of their lives who makes a mistake. Yes, I realize you’re aiming for the extreme – but I’ve seen both sides of this scenario – I’ve seen lives changed by… 1) being safe, but also by 2) dealing with an issue and not abandoning the person who made the mistake. Are there situations you cannot possibly resolve? Yes. But while those situations happen, most issues are in this middle ground area.
My other issue with your article is the statement “I am going to punch you in the face but I hope you realize it is just my way of thanking you for the great advice you gave my daughter.”
Standing up for yourself is one thing, but presenting an opinion like this, and presenting an aggressive, emotion-driven response – sends entirely the wrong message. It sullies the very real issue of how to approach children teasing kids, how to deal with it… how to teach kids how to handle themselves when young.
I agree with many of the sentiments shared, such as “I want my daughter to know that if someone likes her and respects her, much less LOVES her, they don’t hurt her and they don’t put her down.” I still, however, have issue with the broad sweep of the brush, the rush to anger/violence in response to disagreeing over others (certainly mistake) opinions. Sometimes you must resort to violence in defending yourself: to get out of a dangerous situation where you may be physically harmed, or to save yourself or others. Most of the examples I’ve read here, and in the comments – that violence sends you to the level you are so carefully trying to rise above.
A study from 2000 is summarized as stating: “Surveys find that men and women assault one another and strike the first blow at approximately equal rates.” Guys just are less likely to talk about it. So this is an issue that is even bigger that the boy/girl dynamic. I think, too often, we exacerbate problems and say “Girls should… or Boys should” when in reality, we ALL should. NO child should put up with abuse from friends or other children, regardless of gender.
http://www.dvrc-or.org/domestic/violence/resources/C61/
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I just wanted to say that i agree with your comment…i dont see a like button 🙂
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Wow, this really has gone viral. And you know what? That’s a damned good thing.
Thanks again. Great piece.
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I know! I’m kind of shocked. Thanks for reading and responding.
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The origins of the phrase are no comfort … it is time the phrase and actions were ‘retired’ from our society …
hit
O.E. hyttan “come upon, meet with,” from O.N. hitta “to light upon, meet with,” from P.Gmc. *khitjanan. Meaning shifted in late O.E. period to “strike,” via “to reach with a blow or missile,” and replaced O.E. slean in this sense. Noun meaning “successful play, song, person,” etc. first recorded 1811, from verb meaning “to hit the mark, succeed” (c.1400). Underworld slang meaning “to kill by plan” is 1955 (n. is from 1970). Meaning “dose of narcotic” is 1951, from phrases like hit the bottle “drink alcohol” (1889). Original sense survives in phrases such as hit it off (1780) and hit on (1970s). To hit the nail on the head (1574) is from archery. Hit the road “leave” is from 1873; to hit (someone) up “request something” is from 1917. Hit and run is 1899 as a baseball play, 1924 as a driver failing to stop at a crash he caused. To not know what hit (one) is from 1923.
Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2010 Douglas Harper
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amen to this! and this SHOULD be distributed nationwide! i as a kid was told, after incessant teasing, “oh, it just means they like you.”. god help the parents of the kids who dares to touch or verbally abuse any of the future kids i may have. they’re going to hear a mouthful from me the first time it happens. also, i love this line:
I want my daughter to know that the boy called her ugly or pushed her or pulled her hair didn’t do it because he admires her, it is because he is a little asshole and assholes are an occurrence of society that will have to be dealt with for the rest of her life.
finally, others’ get that this is NOT acceptable under ANY circumstances.way to go.
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So true
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I agree with you. Maybe this is why so many girls out there go for the bad boy while keeping the nice guys who’d never hit them or belittle them in the ‘friend zone’.
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Amazing post!! Thank you so much!! I am sharing thus with my school PTA group and with every parent I know! Well written and insightful, and a fantastic discussion in the comments! 1<3
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I love this, and not in a slappy sort of way.
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NEW RULE: If you want to make a relevant contribution to the discussion, agree or disagree, I encourage you to do so. I have, however, decided not to approve any more comments that are nothing more than, “you’re a psycho bitch” or anything similar.
Kthanxbye
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re New Rule. yes it seems like you woke up the psycho in some ‘people’
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Well, no. There’s a difference between abusive behavior and playful teasing. It’s especially hard to differentiate between them when little kids are involved because kids don’t know where the lines are, and adults range everywhere from overprotective to neglectful. Sure, a girl (or boy) raised to accept abuse will probably end up leading a miserable life, but one taught react negatively to every negative micro-experience they have will end up lonely, antisocial, and just as miserable.
It’s hard to teach your kids to find the lines, but it’s worth the effort in the long run.
The kid with the most friends at the playground is the one that knows when to brush off an incident and when make a big deal out of one.
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I remember telling my Mom in 1st grade that a boy did something mean (I don’t even remember what it was) and she told me that it was because he liked me. I did NOT like that boy, and the question of whether or not he liked me was never found out. I remember desperately trying to convince her otherwise by in turn escalating the story by lying and saying he did worse things than he really did. It was never brought up to the school or teacher until later in the year at parent-teacher conferences, where of course my lies were found out. I got in a lot of trouble, and still get teased by my family about the lie I made up (it was a little bit ridiculous and because the lie was a little out there I had to back it up with more lies). I am 22 years old and of course, know now that lying is not a good thing to do, but reading all this makes me feel some how justified. If my mother had responded differently, it likely would have not gone that far.
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hahahaha calm down any good parent is going to say that so that the kid learns why people do things that is a part of development but most parents also give options for solutions as well and I don’t see how any choice u make as an adult can be blamed on your parents choices of raising u cause they adults women stay in abusive relationships because they have low self esteem or are weak minded and being controlled not because they parents gave em this age old explanation of child behavior
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Can you say, “Run-on.”
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Well said mama! I’m sharing this EVERY WHERE. Every mother, father, parent to be, teacher, child care provider, grandparent and essentially any one who is going to be teaching our children (whether in an educational environment, or simply through day to day living) needs to read this, and hear the meaning.
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My mom used to feed me that “Oh, he did [insert sophomoric behavior here] to you because he likes you.” crap to me as well, particularly once in 4th or 5th grade when some little jackhole put a cricket down my shirt. This was my response:
Me: If he likes me then why is he being so mean?
Her: That’s because boys don’t know how to express themselves.
Possible [and most rational] solution: Oh I don’t know. How about TEACHING BOYS HOW TO FUCKING BEHAVE FROM THE GET-GO? HUH? HUH?! But I guess that would be way too difficult since everyone seems to subscribe to the Rosseau theory that boys need to be wildlings until the age of 12.
My past solution: I went to my dad. He said, “Hit them back.” Guess which parent I listened to? Here’s a hint: no other boy in my class messed with me for the rest of that year. 😀
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Sing on!
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FAN-Fucking-TASTIC — that is for the folks who object to swear words, they are just words used to highlight / express the frustration and anger involved. Which of the following gets the point across better:
1) “FUCK! I forgot to mail the rent check”
2) “Fiddlesticks, I forgot to mail the rent check!”
This is a very true article and she is just expressing her frustration. Those of you who think she was actually going to hit someone… please step away from the computer, for you are far too stupid to be using such a technically advanced device. It was used to make a point… Relax people.. not everything in this world is LITERAL!
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THANK YOU! THANK YOU! I got tired of responding to explain the difference between speaking literally and figuratively. I gave up. They also seem to have missed the point that I was making that if I hit an adult, it wouldn’t be taken as a gesture of affection. The point flew directly over the heads of some readers, it seems.
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I agree that no children should be taught that abuse is acceptable behavior.
That said, you made a point to personally threaten physical violence in anyone who disagrees with you. That is just as bad a lesson to teach kids.
As a dad, I understand the desire to protect your kids, and I would do anything to protect mine, but violence shouldn’t be your first response to a disagreement.
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I will help you hold the fucktards down for their punch in the face. You’re welcome. This ridiculous egoist message has been generated as long as I can remember and I am about to be 48. It has to stop at home people.
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Interesting article, but it does seem to demonise young boys. From my experience in school girls were just as likely to engage in this kind of abusing horseplay. Although it was never an ‘issue’ which had to be delt with.
Also teaching your children to respond with violence is never the answer, whatever the sex. Likewise its wrong to deal with parents of the kids with violence or anger – you’re then teaching your child that violence is an answer, but only if you’re really angry.
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Thank you. I have shared this. It was a wake-up call to me. My little girl is only three and has yet to deal with this. Reading this made me examine my own point of view and I immediately saw that I needed to keep this close to my heart. I will not allow my daughter to think that physical and verbal abuse is anything but abuse.
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I think I love you for this! Truer words not spoken in a loooong time!
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I see many here that are mistaking Queens “punch in the face” followed by an “I love you” as the way to fix the problem the wrong way. Its to make a point. Obviously, if you punch someone in the face you clearly don’t love them, never did and never will. Hence her message to start with. Anyone who is picking, pulling, calling names and generally being U.G.L.Y. no matter what their gender is NOT NICE. Ever. Get with the program people. I believe her *real* advice was TO SEEK HELP and yell it out if you have to. Sigh. My own 15 yr old is dealing with a similar douchebag right now. I can’t wait for her to read this as I linked it on facebook!
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Thanks for getting it. *sigh*
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You are very welcome. Sigh back.
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I think you should just reach over and steal something out of their purse/wallet/pocket/whatever. And literally do it, because then they just might get it. Also, it probably wouldn’t get you thrown in jail, lol.
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I agree that violence and affection do not go hand in hand. I don’t agree with the binaries you are creating. Little girls also hit and tease little boys for affection, especially in today’s age when women, younger and younger, have such entitlement.
Also try to remember that children’s interactions with one another are strongly influenced by their upbringing, ideologies, and societal norms thrown onto them since the time they were born. Kids will be kids according to surrounding culture. Most teasing is indeed harmless and sometimes serves as a ground to teach children about self respect, you have to make mistakes to correct them.
Honestly, the only issue I see here is how fired up people are getting. A little less vulgarity and some more decency to the “parents” who find these acts harmless may help create a better message especially for the kids who are rapidly soaking up our own actions as well as emotions.
Try to be rational, calm, and maybe don’t confuse abusive with gender politics…
Working towards a less chaotic world takes all of our strength and civility, but hey… isn’t that part of your point?
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My wife and I raised two boys, and they were subject to this from girls as well. Our philosophy was just like yours – tell someone, yell it out loud if need be. It finally sunk in with the school administrators that this type of behavior was improper.
Respect is key in this day and age. In many social situations, it is a “dying art”.
The title of the song by a group called the New Radicals “shouts” this message loud and clear:
“You Get What You Give”
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I feel that we need to teach our children not to take things others say to heart! I was teased a lot in school for being bigger and I still have issues dealing with it!
On the other hand this is your blog and its called freedom of speech! And one of my favorite sayings. Opinions are like assholes everyone has one!! Everyone needs to remember that! There is no reason to call anyone dumb ass names for them having their own opinion!!!!
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Thank you!! Well said! 🙂
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Thank you for tying together two things that were completely disparate in my mind. Suddenly, so many things make sense!
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Entertaining but, no offense, you seem to be cherry picking one social dynamic of a larger and more difficult problem, then offering a solution which isn’t really all that healthy. An important factor that deserves to be considered (although it is often forgotten in child rearing today) is that children are not just little inexperienced adults. The way they experience the world, down to something as basic as the passage of time, is different than our experience. When you compare a child’s behavior to an adult’s without addressing this difference you imply a stronger similarity between the two than exists. For example young children are generally not capable of romantic love or interest, that is one of the reasons why pedofilia is still rightly classified as a mental disorder while homosexuality has been correctly removed from the DSM. So while yes, a healthy adult does not express love through physical aggression, holding children to those same standards is a flawed, and futile, outlook.
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Felt this same sentiment when I watched Chris Brown perform at the Grammy’s, and then read about how the Grammy’s really missed out on not having him there and ohhh, how nice it is to have him back.
Seriously – are we going to sit there and cheer on a man who beat up his girlfriend as hollywood turned a blind eye?
The icing on the cake was the post I saw later about all the twitter users who tweeted that night about how they’d “let Chris Brown beat them up any day of the week”.
Horrendous.
Sad.
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This article is stupid… Boys do pick on girls as a way of showing affection, it’s part of the way they learn social norms, and how to communicate properly with the opposite sex. Of course, there are some little dipshits who really are just bullying and abusing people… But that doesn’t mean some aren’t genuinely trying to get attention from a girl they have a crush on.
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doesnt ANYONE have a son who is continually treated badly by a girl?we have had meetings at school about this girl who has my son ‘wrapped’ he has been told he is in an abusive relationship VERBALLY and EMOTIONALLY….i have seen some of the things she wries to my son when shes mad or sad..it is horrible.my son and i are real close we talk about this situation all the time..he has ‘broken up with her several times but keeps going back for more..its tiring watching him allow himself to be treated this way..i told him hurt people hurt people it does not make it right but that he can not fix her she has to do it herself..he knows this is not healthy he has said it to me many times but he will not let go..all the way he is only 15! i pray(and im not overly religious) everyday for BOTH of them her to find her way and him to let go and concentrate on himself
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Your son is 15 and in an abusive relationship… I am so glad you are close and willing to listen to him. I am delighted that he is cognitively advanced enough to recognize that it’s abusive and he ‘should’ get out. BUT as a father (and survivor of childhood abuse, and someone who walked to the judge to get a restraining order the day i was hit by an abusive S.O.) i’m appalled you’re not teaching him he must get out of the relationship. It’s not a gender thing, folks; it’s co-dependency, a mental disease like alcoholic co-dependence and co-facilitation. He needs to be in Teen AlAnon. He needs a counselor. YOU need to remember that at 15 he’s beneath the age of consent and you must order him to stay away from her – when he’s 18 he can make his own decisions, but someone needs to be the adult now, and you are legally responsible. Great open communication, good listening, yada yada yada – get off the couch and take a stand. THe lines are no good if you make them meaningless.
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I get what you are trying to say here and I could not agree more. Kids need someone to keep them safe and it’s upsetting to see teachers who are in a position to do so often times overlook things like this. When my daughter comes home telling me anyone is bothering them, I address it right away with the bus driver or the teacher. I do teach her to address anyone who is bothering her and ask them to stop but when they don’t, an adult needs to take action. Bullying will not be tolerated and if it doesn’t get addressed in playful teasing or touching, it will go to the next level and give that child power knowing no one will step in and help the child they are bothering. Thanks for sharing this. Because of what you wrote I will be even more aware of not only my child but those who are responsible for her when I’m not around.
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At age 12 I was being bullied constantly by a male classmate that had just come from being home schooled. Repeatedly I called out that he was hurting me and no one listened. Then one day on the school bus, he was playing around with another boy tossing a piece of wadded paper around. The paper ball landed into my open back pack and I went to grab it out as he lunged to go in for it himself. Apparently to him that was unacceptable and he began punching me in the head. The bus driver witnessed this, and I will forever be thankful for her, slammed on the brakes and removed him from the vicinity of me and other kids (ie: those first 2 seats no one wants that are right by her). She filed a report and spoke with my father whom I was living with at the time. My dad, now hearing about the abuse, demanded to have the boy removed from my class. The boy’s parents retaliated and claimed I started the whole thing by not letting him go into my back pack and were demanding I be removed fully from the school.
I still remember my teacher pulling me out of class to “discuss” what had happened. His words: “Do you think he did this because he has never been around other girls besides family and has a crush on you?” … I was shocked. “No,” I replied, “he did this because he’s an asshole that likes to beat on someone smaller than him.”
When the school didn’t remove me.. his parents withdrew him completely. Some of the girls were upset because he was one of the cute boys and began calling me names and saying I’d deserved it.
A few years later at a county fair, I was in a 4H building talking with some kids I’d just met when I saw him walking our way. He’d grown up, was bigger, face had matured with puberty.. but I could still remember him and the torment and pain. I froze. I had a panic attack and couldn’t move from the spot. He just walked on by, he didn’t recognize me.. didn’t care.
My dad, a vietnam veteran, likened it to being “My ‘Nam”. He might not remember, but I always will.. this happened when I was 12, and I’m 28 now, and can still remember all of it and still shake thinking about it.
No one should suffer abuse, and I’m sickened that anyone would believe that a fist, a kick, angry words could be considered a sign of affection.
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Wow. Thank you for sharing your story. I’m sorry you went through that but I can completely relate to your feelings when you saw him again. I was raped when I was 20 by two men. A couple of years after the incident, I went out with friends and looked across the room and he was at a table, staring me down. I just froze. In my head, it took me straight to those moments and I was back in that room with them attacking me.
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Hm, I’d say that the behavior of the other girls sounds much more distressing than that of the boy, and unless he masterminded an elaborate plot was outside his control. I also think that, given the overreaction of his parents (which seems indicative of severe emotional issues) it’s a sad thing to just dismiss him as a little asshole (although I understand those were your words as a child, not necessarily your opinion now). I’d also caution you about comparing the experience to PTSD, I don’t mean to diminish your pain in any way but the experience on the bus you described would not be as traumatic as Vietnam to someone with a healthy level of emotional resilience.
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I know about PTSD. Have been diagnosed with it in my teens. It was just another factor in it. Before telling someone they don’t know something or difference between it and something else, maybe think that person sought professional help.
But thank you for your caution.
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PTSD is PTSD and it doesn’t matter what the original experience was or the trigger that re-stimulates it. It is NOT your job to judge those who have the symptoms, nor to belittle them or dismiss the causative experience. God did not die and leave you in charge of judging everybody’s soul, bud. There is no hierarchy of oppressions (some OK some not) and there’s no hierarchy of pain (some believable and some discountable) and there’s no competition for the Hallmark Movie of the Week about PTSD. It’s an experience you don’t choose and it’s not one you wish on even your enemies and it is not OK to dismiss it.
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Little boys really do hit little girls when they like them sometimes. This is not a societal thing – it happens in all societies, and has happened throughout history, and can even be seen in animal behavior. This is a genetic, instinctual thing. Little boys don’t know how to express their emotion, and so turn to fight or flight.
The reaction of a parent to that shouldn’t be to freak out and assume this behavior leads to continuing male violence later in life or acceptance of the same by women, and I know of no scientific basis for that belief.
As a parent, you should first try and understand why it happened, and then try and teach little boys how to express what they are feeling.
But telling your little girl the truth – that the boy probably DOES react that way because they like her, isn’t a bad thing. Lying about it and pretending it’s about violence however might – it sends a weird message to your girl that isn’t accurately describing the situation (but it might describe the adult experiences of that parent that they are projecting onto their child).
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You nailed it!
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you go mama!
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I think young people (all genders) struggle with their emotions, frustrations and feelings. Children need to be taught how to handle these when at school. Parents need to help their children understand what they feel and instill an understanding of the right and wrong way to act out their feelings. I have two boys and it’s a constant struggle to get them to understand that fighting and hitting each other is not tolerated. Unfortunatly my boys innately want to fight. My little girl came out wanting to take a hand bag with her everywhere. Educate the boys. Schools need to stand up to this behavior.
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I think that you are an opinionated bigot and don’t realize the difference between the adult world of abuse and the child world of abuse. Personally I think you should have just kept this to yourself.
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I really agree with you! It’s never acceptable to teach children that violence in any form, physical, verbal or emotional, is ok and a sign of affection. It would be interesting to see how many women that are in abusive relationships or been subject to domestic violence that were told this as children.
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HEAR, HEAR
I applaud you for calling out this bullshit. I can distinctly remember being told this countless times when I was bullied in elementary school, especially by my aunts and teachers. Only when the violence escalated to me being pushed into a brick wall and kicked in the face by 6th graders wearing snowboots was my torment taken seriously. Often, when we hear of a woman staying with an abusive partner, we ask why, wondering how she can still be deluded into believing he loves her.
“Oh, that just means he likes you.”
No, it means he is a weak male who needs to reaffirm his nonexistant manliness by making you feel like less than the beautiful, wonderful woman you are!
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Actually, the phrase “hitting on” stems from “to hit on” which means to obtain what one desires, usually with implied chance or luck. You can usually use it similarly to “found.”
ie: “Hey, I totally hit on the perfect job earlier this morning!”
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I was being facetious but thanks.
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Awesome! My daughter had to give a boy in her kindergarten class a black eye. This was after I spoke to the teacher and his mom.
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I love this! So true! We have all been told this at one time or another and thinking back, I guarantee it didn’t help me anymore at the time and in fact, probably inhibited me down the road when guys have treated me poorly. Thanks for putting this out there!
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Great post!
It seems to me some people here are failing to make an important distinction. While it’s true that boys often tease and abuse girls that they have crushes on, it does not follow that these boys are being abusive *because* they like their victims. They are abusive because a) they’ve absorbed a belief that teasing and violence are the way to express themselves and process their feelings, AND b) they’re failing to think about the girl’s feelings. They’re behaving badly because they’ve learned to behave badly, and they’ve failed to learn to behave nicely. No other reason.
Liking a person is not the cause of abuse, and abuse is something no one should expect or tolerate from people who are supposed to “like” them. Yet that’s the message we’re giving our girls when we tell them “he’s mean because he likes you.”
So we need to fucking stop. He’s being mean, AND (maybe) he likes you, but the two should not go together. (Yay for adults swearing in the presence of other adults!)
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Dismissing and attacking the natural urges of children (more often boys) ultimately is not really motivated by an urge to raise responsible empathic, rather it stems from the fact that it is easier to manage and control tiny adults than children. Little boys do not “like” others in the same way that adult men do. And thus they do not express the feeling in the same way.
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Oh wow, helicopter parent much?? Let children be children..
Maybe next time you should write a blog on how to not get preggo when you are 14
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You can’t be serious? Teaching your kids to not accept the notion that hitting girls is an acceptable form of affection is being a helicopter parent? You are a Dumb. Ass.
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What about girls who hit boys when they like them? That’s what I did. And still do, to some extent…
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I don’t think it’s any more acceptable when girls do it. Still bullying.
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HOLY crap! I only clicked on your blog b/c I’m looking into downloading wordpress and yours was on the front page. Just looking for an example and I LOVED this gem of a post! I am guilty of saying this exact thing and until now I had NEVER considered the message I was sending. Thank you! I am sharing this one for sure!
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wow, i had seriously never thought of it that way before now. come to think of it, in elementary school, the boys who liked me never pulled my hair or hurt me. i wore their coats (that was a sign of liking someone in the early 90s i guess). so why do we say that means “he must like you”.
as for “hitting on her”, i am really curious to the origin of that. thanks for your post.
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I am a father of two little boys one of which will be starting preschool next year. In our home my wife and I like to stay gender neutral as much as possible. This certainly applies to emotions and respect. We like to make sure they treat others kindly and with respect REGARDLESS of gender. I hope to have a daughter someday and I will teach her the same and I will also take a page from your blog and make sure she doesn’t take that sort of behavior either.
It is kind of weird that I never thought of that. I may be a male and that may be part of it. I was also raised by women, I had a father but he was not around much. I was told to treat women with respect and I think that is where the problem lies. Sure we need to teach daughters not to take it but when a boy does this kind of act he needs be told that is not how he shows affection or whatever it is. Bottom line those boys need to be taught the right way to treat others.
Great post and congrats on the fresh press.
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Reblogged this on Still Growing.
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“I am going to punch you in the face but I hope you realize it is just my way of thanking you for the great advice you gave my daughter” brilliant…or as we would say in Australia “BLOODY brilliant!”
This post needs to be posted to every teacher on the planet…with all the cussing kept in!
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Dammit shut the hell up! Your such an idiot
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*You’re*
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Who the hell cares?
All you do is rant.
You obviously know nothing about modern-day kids.
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Who the fuck is forcing you to read it? You are more than welcome to click the little “x” in the corner and close this page, punkin. It’s my blog and I will discuss whatever the fuck I want to discuss. Thanks for stopping by and punching up my view count.
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lol no prob and after reading this your probably gay
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Racingfan: 1. You are not very intelligent.
2. You are just awful at trolling.
3. You are awful at trolling because you are not very intelligent.
Thank you for your input into this discussion.
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lulz i am not trolling. but if this girl is ranting on how boys are evil and such, then she must be gay. the facts add up
and yes i purposely didn’t use caps
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Funny thing about the article. It is about how adults treat inappropriate behavior in children. Not that girls are better than boys. Maybe you should read it before casting stones.
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when abuse is seen as a “people” problem rather than a gender issue….we might get somewhere.
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Word.
Press.
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And why do you think abuse is often considered a gender issue?
Hint: because it’s predominantly male-on-female.
Happy to help!
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Reblogged this on DoraDoha and commented:
I could really relate in this post because as a child I was always at war with boys. Now I truly understand what those riots meant and known that I’ve been doing the right thing from the start. That is to fight for myself. 🙂
Thank you very much queenofthecouch for this wonderful and enlightening post ^_^
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HA! so true, love this!
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My mom was a grade school teacher and she took me with her once. I was in Grade 1. One of the boys in Grade 3 was lifting the skirts of all the girls in the playground. I told him to stop and when he didn’t, I punched him in the stomach. I was 6 and he was 8. My mom told me then that he was just doing it because he liked the girls and I was wrong for hitting him. Thank you for validating my actions.
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Yes we need to teach our kids to ignore idiots and there’s always a “mean kid” lurking, but I agree with the many who would like to see this posted nationawide; Could you maybe add one along to this though? The one that gets under my skin is ” he/she is just going through a phase”….. so did Jeffry Dahmer and Son of Sam. Rationalizing they will grow out of something in a month does NOT excuse it today. Funny how parents of mean kids have all these cute little sayings…..WELL DONE!
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I am now going to tell everyone that I know you..then post embarrassing videos of you on youtube and link them here. Bwahahhaha.
Of course, I do love the post!
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Ignore all the fuckwits who are spouting bollocks. This was hilarious and sensible all at the same time. A bit like one of those fancy condoms.
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Mind blown.
I was delusional all through my childhood but this (especially now in times when bullying is being addressed more publicly) is something worth changing as well.
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Your post is so damn correct! 😀 I reblogged it because I can totally relate to it. There’s this boy whose so cruel at me when we were younger. He tortures me every single time we visit their house like, locking me to the bathroom, taking my toys, punching me, and even hitting me with a plastic stick of a balloon at the back which hurts really! My mom wouldn’t even notice it at first but in the end when she finally learned about it and couldn’t take it much longer she spanked this boy and humiliated him at the front of both our families and friends. Hell yeah SWEET REVENGE! hahahaha!
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the best thing my husband taught our daughter when she was young was how to throw a punch. That way if he wasn’t around to defend her, she could defend herself or as he said (teasingly I hope) she could give them a busted lip or black eye so it would be easier to identify them once he found out what they did (or tried to do) to her. He’s a great Daddy.
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I think if you really worked hard, you could hate men and boys even more…
Violence from both boys and girls happens regularly…your message is a good one, that disrespect and violence should never be tolerated..even more so when it is disguised as a compliment.. But there is no need to make that point so specific to boys..making them evil as a whole….in order to prove your point. You are just spreading hatred and sexism…so although you are helping one way, you are hurting in another…
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I came to this posting as I saw a link to it on Facebook, and while at first it took me a minute to gain my composure and not instantly give my two cents on my friend’s wall, I think I’ve reasoned enough things to make a coherent retort. I was a boy when I was in school, it took college for me to break out of my shell and realize that all my life I had truly been a transsexual (no, this in no way involved anything at school, that was something that a therapist diagnosed had been in my mind since age 5). During my stay at schools, I went from the normal child, to withdrawn, to practically not even there. Half of high school I barely even remember because I cared so little. In elementary school I had two girl friends and I was confused when I told one of them and she stormed out on me. I liked them both, and although I also didn’t understand at the time that girlfriends were something different from “best female friends”, I don’t feel that by playing power rangers with them and the rest of my friends caused them to feel disrespected when they fell, or when we play-tackled each other. One might say that’s different, but it’s simply because I put it into a different connotation: play.
Kids don’t understand a lot of things, just like I didn’t, and the worst thing I can think of is trying to push such a zealous agenda for “justice” in schools like this. The only logical conclusion to this is that you will confuse the children even more. I’ll give an example of one such action. My father enrolled me in martial arts when I was seven years old, because he didn’t want me to be bullied in High School like he was. I didn’t understand that when I was seven; all I understood was that every autumn we got to break weak wooden boards and go running through a survival course where our instructors dressed up like ninjas and dropped from tree branches. In other words it was fun. In the process however, I gained self-discipline, became meek, and learned that fundamentals of the good human being is to seek peace (without trying to force it down the throats of others). Teaching our kids on our own to do things like scream when a boy or girl may be playfully tugging on their hair or stealing their bracelets, whatever you may want to name the situation, short of maliciously grabbing a pencil and trying to stab the other or straight-up throwing a haymaker, is not only going to make that kid stand out and possibly teach them to be overly self-conscious, but it will confuse all the other children around them as well, as to what is truly acceptable and “normal”. It makes our child emotionally weak, knowing that anything they may construe as abuse or something they just don’t like, regardless of reason, constitutes the perfect situation to complain at the top of their lungs.
I personally think the definition of abuse that is being demonstrated within this listing of comments is too liberal. Any case of physical or verbal contact that may or may not be unwarranted, may or may not be considered an actual strike, and may or may not leave a bruise or any form of emotional scarring? This reminds me of when one of my best friends went to High School a year before I did and claimed to the whole school I was a stalker because I called her twice in one week (which was actually a reduction from the amount of times we called each other only a year before). Right. After two calls, I gave up for the rest of my life and that was considered stalking.
I just don’t think such a drastic approach is useful here. Perhaps when the children are older and have a semi-basic understanding of how actual society works, then we can explain to them that they’re not children anymore, there are responsibilities to be had, and you are liable in many more ways than just being sent to a Principal’s Office.
On a side note, I have read both comments on the swearing of the initial post, and I have read the retorts of how, “I’m an adult, it’s my blog, I can swear.” I’m in no way trying to condemn the vocabulary you’ve chosen to utilize here, but when your aim is to address a potential audience on the issues of abuse and disrespect, perhaps a more soothing and respectful choice of words would more suit the topic. There are a lot of credibility issues opened up in this and I don’t intend to try and cover them all, but just because you have achieved adult status does not mean that wantonly throwing four-lettered words in their many shapes and sizes is the proper way to behave. I also am an adult, and the one thing my father taught me, is that when a man (or woman) resorts to swearing, it’s because they no longer have anything intelligent to say. Take that piece of wisdom how you will.
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Thank you Zoey for such a wonderful and respectful comment.
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And by the way, I LOVE the foul language and I LOVE the way you write. PERFECTO!!
Love,
YOur newest fan!!
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Shannon Hale, who writes YA and adult novels, wrote a similar post on her blog awhile back. I’m not sure what prompted her post, but it said pretty much everything you did. I agreed wholeheartedly with both of yours, especially after watching close friends either go through abusive relationships or deal with their after-effects. I remember in first grade, a girl I was friends with punched a boy in our class in the stomach so hard that he had to go home for the day. I have no idea what provoked it, but I often played with this boy too, and he was never disrespectful to me. He was really one of the nicest boys in our grade. You better believe, though, that no one said, “Oh, I bet Ana just likes Mark and doesn’t know how to tell him.” No, we were shocked and she was in huge trouble. If only it would be the same the other way around.
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Whereas I agree with the article that yes, hitting isn’t a behaviour that should be encouraged, in my experience, it works both ways. As a father of both boys and girls, my boys have also come to me with stories that girls have picked on them, also. And in speaking to the parents of said girls, come to find out that, yes, the girls like my sons.
At that age, they don’t know proper behaviour for this. It’s brand new to them. And they want attention from those that they like. And, like most children, they’ll get that in negative ways, too, if they’re not getting it in positive ways.
My best friend’s daughter liked this boy (she’s eight). She did many positive things to try and get him to notice her (dressing up, giving him drawings). And was completely ignored. It wasn’t until she started doing negative things that she was getting the attention that she wanted, even if it wasn’t the KIND of attention that she wanted.
The point is this: it’s not about teaching girls that this (hitting means I like you!) is how things should be. It’s about guiding children, of both sexes, to express their emotions in a positive way, and if they’re not reciprocated, ways that they can deal with that emotion, too.
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And how do you propose dealing with a child who comes home crying because she thinks all the boys at school hate her? Or with an adolescent who finds that nobody will spend time with her because she can’t take a joke? Or even an adult, who has grown up thinking that teasing of any sort is a sign of serious disrespect that should not be tolerated, and finds herself unable to tolerate the majority of her co-workers?
Conflating abuse with the teasing that all elementary school boys do is not only misleading, it’s dangerous. Teasing is part of growing up; it doesn’t stop in high school, college, or the workplace, and it’s best that children understand the difference between that and sexual harassment or abuse. Your daughter will not stop boys from teasing if she does not put up with it. She will only alienate herself, and have a harder time understanding what actual abuse is.
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Edit: Paragraph 2, Line 11, forgot to include one sentence: “I did not learn to protect myself through means such as punching others in the face or kicking them in the groin, I learned to protect myself by giving off the presence of someone who is in no way interested in their bullying, and couldn’t be bothered either way if the person had anything to say.”
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Childhood is a weird time, mostly because of adults. Every adult treats small children the same way he or she remembers being treated as a small child, because…well, there must be some reason adults acted that way. The whole “S/he harasses you out of affection” is one of those nuggets that is part of our cultural consciousness by this point, and every adult repeats it by rote for that reason alone. No one thinks about it, they just say it.
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Hell to the yes.
I am the mother of 3 sons. I base an aspect of my parenting on remembering what it was like to be a little girl. I teach my boys “no hurting others unless they are hurting you”. Equally important, I teach them if they are doing something to another person – and that person says “no”, “stop”, looks sad, or is crying – then STOP. AND I teach them others should give them the same respect. At this point, it’s about toys, tag, and rough-housing. With any luck, by the time it’s about something else, they’ll already have healthy boundaries for themselves and others.
I went through puberty early. When I was in the 4th grade, there was a boy who was physically aggressive with me on the playground. I tried to get away from him. I begged to stay in from recess. I even attacked him in class once for something he whispered when I walked by. The teacher thought it was “cute” (nevermind that I was a shy, silent child who had NEVER been aggressive with another child before that). That boy eventually caught me on the playground, held me down, and pulled up my shirt so all of the other boys could look at my breasts. Yeh…real cute all right. Thanks for your support teach.
An aside:
I usually say “congrats” to those who have been Freshly Pressed, but I suspect you’re going to get some….interesting traffic, since *some* people do not like to think about these things and get angry when they are addressed (and so they may read in all kinds of words you did not write). SO I wish you good luck and much strength. Rock on, momma.
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I just found out about being Freshly Pressed an hour ago. Needless to say, your prediction has already come to fruition about a hundred times. People have taken some MAJ-AH liberties with my words and read between the lines until it is unrecognizable. I have no problem with engaging in a discussion with those with dissenting opinions, as long as they don’t put words in my mouth (or my hands, as the case may be).
Thanks for sharing your story.
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You’re most welcome. I may repost this tomorrow. It’s important.
I’m sorry that some folks have so misread what you wrote. I wonder if this happened to my sons and I was equally (and rightfully) outraged, if people would think I was saying it would have been okay if the genders were reversed.
Let’s hope for – and continue to work for – a better cultural norm in our children’s future.
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Although your reaction is perhaps a *little* too strong, I agree with everything you say here. I have a six year old boy and if I ever find out that he’s been harassing any member of his class/school, regardless of gender, (I would certainly hope not, it definitely isn’t how we’ve raised him) then I would EXPECT swift and appropriate punishment to come down from the school, and if it didn’t you can sure as hell believe it’ll come down from ME, and I’ll be taking it up the chain at the school to ensure steps are taken it doesn’t happen again.
The behaviour of your child’s teacher is reprehensible, and I would have called her out on it, in front of your child, right there and then, and then gone to see the principal. Adults call it assault; there is no reason why it’s not the same, simply because those involved are younger. I’d like to think it’s merely a case of educating the offender that such things are NOT OK, and how to behave properly and with respect.
A great post. Well done.
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i used to get my butt whooped on by this girl that was in my class…all the way till 8th grade…i was raised not to assault women verbally or physically…thankfully the girl failed and i moved on….but whats funny about this article is how you guys say this is a male thing towards females….when it goes both ways,i witnessed last week a lil girl in my sons kindergarden class runnin around tuggin on him and trien to wrestle and just straight up man handleing him…he didnt do a thing back because thats how ive raised him….now….he has been instructed to defend himself at all cost if he feels like hes in danger from a male or female…and that i know he will do…now…..about the abused woman and men staying in the abusive relationships…..its your own fault…god gave you a brain and two legs…if your being harmed menatlly or physically…use your brain and legs to walk out…there are many contradictions throughout this whole post…and if your gonna talk about being a better parent…take down the picture with you huggin some jack…..have a blessed day people
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It’s not that I disagree with all of what’s being said in both this post and the comments that follow, but I do have to mention something that I don’t believe is being considered. I am an elementary school teacher and have been observing the social interactions of boys and girls for years. Boys who like each other, who want to be friends, tease, chase, punch, and wrestle, and by so doing they grow closer. While we may not think this ideal, and while we are certainly responsible for helping our kids develop more advanced methods of interaction, I don’t believe we can say this is unnatural or abnormal for young boys (generally speaking of course), and we certainly shouldn’t peg them as assholes when they make the mistake of trying the same tactics with a girl who they like, which at least in the context of younger kids, probably doesn’t mean romantically in that ridiculous “oh how cute” sense. The majority of situations I’ve witnessed where a boy teases or physically hurts a girl, fall into two categories. Either a young boy thinks the way he plays with Bobby is a perfectly fine way to play with Susie, or the boy is intentionally being mean and socially competitive with Susie (this is not the same as bullying, by the way). In both cases the boy is basing his behavior not on disrespect for girls but on equality for the sexes; he’s either trying to play with everyone the same way or he’s trying to be a jerk to everyone in the same way.
So when we tell our boys they can’t do that stuff with girls, what we are really saying is, don’t treat girls the same, which they shouldn’t, but we forget to tell them why – because boys and girls tend to be different.
I’m all for discouraging this behavior all around (while respecting the fact that it’s a normal part of growing up in every culture throughout every period of human history), but I refuse to replace the over-simplification “he does it because he likes you” with “boys shouldn’t hit girls.” This implies girls are weaker and must be treated more gently, which in my opinion is the more dangerous message.
The bigger problem is that we punish boys for this behavior when it’s aimed toward girls but accept it when aimed at other boys. The author of this post went running to the school officials when her daughter’s silly bands were taken. The vast majority of parents wouldn’t have come to the aid of their son if his silly bands were taken. He would have been told to tough it out. All of this sends the message to our kids that girls are delicate, so when some of the boys grow up to be assholes, they take advantage of someone who they’ve been lead to believe is weaker than themselves.
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This is the most levelheaded, well thought out piece of writing in this comment thread (original blog post included). Well done
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I could not agree with you more! Author is lacking in knowledge and education about human behavior.
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“Boys who like each other, who want to be friends, tease, chase, punch, and wrestle, and by so doing they grow closer.”
WHAT??? I also teach elementary school and I see SOME boys acting that way. I also see that most boys don’t like it, only some are willing to put up with it. No matter the age, people should be taught not to be agressive with others, no matter the gender. If they want to wrestle or fight they can join a martial arts class and learn the proper way to treat others. Even masters of martial arts know that random agression is inappropriate. The first thing every student learns in our school is to keep their hands and feet to themselves. Girls and boys need to be taught not to mistreat others for any reason. Just becasue they “naturally” do is is not a justification of bad behavior.
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Your response truly has made the most sense out of all these parents who don’t grasp a child’s social development
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this is the best response. thank you for your insight.
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Very well put JR King. I am currently in school for art education and work at an after school program at an inner city charter school in Philadelphia and you articulated very well the sentiments that I am feeling regarding this post. I too have witnessed this behavior, and it can be attributed to treating girls they like the same way as boys they like, or general nastiness which is across the board regardless of gender. The important thing is to have your child be responsible enough to go to the teacher at the time of the incident and deal with it then instead of retaliating or waiting to get home. Sometimes the recipient embellishes what happens to a person who they know will be on their side ie a parent. By demonstrating that the behavior is unacceptable, instead of enduring it and waiting to tell mommy, it shows the child the consequences of their actions in a timely fashion, which will ultimately reshape their behavior. I believe that you are as likely to get children to stop acting in this manner as you are to getting boys to stop fighting boys and girls to stop creating manipulative little clicks and ostracizing each other. You can subside the behavior, but it will always show up at some point
In regards to the orignal poster’s swearing, it belittles the validity of your argument and makes you seem sophomoric. Perhaps if you feel so strongly about your child’s well being you could articulate it better.
oh and all caps is tacky
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Agreed!
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Thanks for that input. I have enjoyed reading the initial post and many of the comments left behind both good and, well – unintelligent at best. The general message makes you really think. Combined with the above message I get a sense that a lot of people hadn’t really even thought about it. I know I hadn’t. My grandma use to just tell me to kill everyone with kindness. It sucked but has worked out ok in adult life I guess. Now that I have a little boy I have heard a lot how boys will be boys but I attributed that to them being a little louder, rougher, and dirtier then girls in general. Never mean. Those mean boys in elementary school are still mean boys today and I for one had some great elementary teachers who cracked down on a lot of the non-sense but I had never really thought about it the way you put it and I feel I should have. So much I could say but I think I would just mull it over some more. Thanks for sharing! (what’s up with people cracking down on your swearing? Do they not realize this is a blog meant for venting?)
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LMAO @ “The next time that someone offers up that little “secret” to my daughter, I am going to slap the person across the face and yell, “I LOVE YOU”.” 😀
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I agree, thank you for posting this.
Now, put together a post about the affects on children of our cultures’ misplaced dependency and celebration of drinking alcohol. Your picture says it all; and we wonder why there is so much teen/young adult alcohol abuse.
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Thank You!
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Amen! Her “classy” photo, her limited vocabulary, and her EXTREMELY limited understanding and education about human behavior and development speaks ever so loudly. She should be embarassed, yet she has such a following. <— The ever-growing with our society. Projecting/blaming others, analyzing, distracting and placating — whatever it takes to cope and not own and confront one's own behavior or responsibility. Oy!
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As a little girl who was often bullied – or flat out terrorized – by little boys, I too was given the ‘he probably has a crush on you’ line when I would come home in tears, my things broken or stolen, a bruise on my arm or leg, with my sense of self worth in shreds.
And even as a kid, I felt there was something deeply wrong about that being an excuse. But still I accepted it, as did my mother when she was little, and her mother before her… It’s the general ‘wisdom’ that’s been passed down to girls for countless generations.
The sad thing is, it’s most often true. Little boys are somehow taught to believe that it’s normal and natural to feel shame about their feelings of affection and attraction. That bullying and cruelty are a perfectly acceptable way to express the exact opposite of the feelings in their hearts.
It persists past childhood, for both genders. Personally, it took me years to realize that someone acting like an utter dick, did not mean it was OK because they were just-masking-their-deep-feelings-for-me-due-to-an-adoration-so-intense-it-frightened-them.
I – as so many young women did and do – continued to believe that men behaving like bullying little boys – was something to be tolerated and seen as a sign of underlying love.
What a load of crap.
Not sure exactly when, why or how my perspective changed, but eventually it did. I allowed myself to realize something I’d known all along… Something your post so brilliantly points out, and something that ALL CHILDREN should be taught from infancy:
When you care about someone, you show them kindness, because love is nothing to be ashamed or afraid of. Behaving any other way, is unacceptable.
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The weird thing is that just today I sat through an assembly about teen dating violence and now that I read this it makes me wonder. If this behavior is being tolerated from the a such young age, how can they question why teen dating violence is so high now. I, myself am not saying I’m any better. I as well was brought of with the same phrase of, “It means they like you.” but even at that age I didn’t like it no matter how many times my friends said that. It wasn’t even the teachers but my friends in 5th grade that said that to me. How is it that when you’re a little kid it’s considered puppy love or something but once you’re a teen it’s considered only then as abuse?
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How about teaching your daughter self-esteem so emotional bullying won’t get to her instead of reacting violently to teasing?
Paragraph after paragraph about how other parent’s are stupid when you are just as bad.
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So, teaching my daughter to allow other children to subjugate her physically and verbally will build self esteem? Interesting logic.
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Finally, a post truly deserving of being Freshly Pressed!
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“I will teach my daughter to accept nothing less than respect.”
Totally agree with you on that statement but I want to point out that the kind of language you are using in your blog leaves one to wonder if you respect yourself? Do you use the kind of language around you daughter?
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seriously?! just because someone swears does not mean they don’t have respect for themselves!! wow. do you need some ky to help that stick out of your ass?
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As a father of both a girl and a boy, I couldn’t agree with you more. I taught my daughter early if a boy puts his hands on you it must mean he wants to hurt you. That’s not ok. You make him bleed. Not to be mean in return bit to teach him a lesson about putting his hands on a girl. He’ll be a better person for it one day. She’s now a self assured 16 year old and she knows how she should be treated. My son is only 9 but he knows you show people you like them through kindness, not being a little peckerhead. He knows to look out for smaller kids and not to tolerate or participate in any kind of bullying. You’re absolutely right. These are things that must be taught and as parents we can ill afford to let tormenting someone be socially accepted as a positive thing.
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Awesome!
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I love this . My mother used to tell me that crud, and also that the girls in school who were cruel to me were “just jealous” it is quite possible they were just jerks, I spent waaaay to much time trying to make them like me, when I should have focused my attention the people who did..
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THAT. Is some thought provoking shit.
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YES! Thank you. I’m not a parent (yet, anyway). But when I was growing up, my mother was THIS. When people–aunts, grandparents, even–demanded I hug them, as people do with kids, she explained that I didn’t have to hug anyone I didn’t want to. When a kid punched me in the stomach in first grade, she went to the school and had a…chat…with him. When his brother beat me up the following year, she raised hell until the teachers feared her. My cousin is now that same mother, and if ever I’m a mother, I will be, too. Fuck all this false messaging: Respect is respect. Love is love. Don’t confuse it.
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Just wanted to offer a few thoughts to this oh-so-intelligent discussion. (I love the primary point of your original post, QueenoftheCouch, but so many of the comments have me grinding my teeth.)
Personally, I’m disturbed by the idea of reacting to violence with violence. I have told my daughters (aged 5 and 7) that bullies (male or female) have to pitied and treated with kindness, because there is often something wrong in their own lives and they hurt other people to make themselves feel better. And from a purely practical perspective, hitting back means two kids hurting, not just one, and two kids in trouble.
Our school teaches children from aged 3 to react to unwelcome touching/teasing with “Stop, I don’t like it” at repeated frequency and volume until they attract someone else’s attention. Sometimes it works to actually stop the aggression, but more importantly, it gives kids the opportunity to verbalise their objections and stand up for themselves without using physical violence. We also train grade sixes (12yo) as peer mediators, and they come running when they hear that particular phrase.
But bullying does and will always happen, and when it gets to a scary physical level, children have to be aware they can and should protect themselves physically. But lets give them a tool to react and defend their rights BEFORE they resort to that. Otherwise, we are just fuelling violence in our schools, and our society will follow.
On the “it means he likes you” point. We have actually been going through exactly this with my younger daughter and a boy in her class. He is not an asshole, jerkoff or whatever – he is an only child who doesn’t know how to relate to girls, and is desperately keen to play with them, really likes them, but needs to learn how to relate. Reacting with physical violence would send the wrong message there – my daughter and her friends inviting him to join their games, as long as he plays their way, has worked wonders, as has the socialising work his Mum and our teacher has been doing with him.
And finally, on the gender issue – yes, this happens to boys and girls, and boys and girls are the victims. But society has been telling girls to accept it, and using excuses like “boys will be boys” etc for too long, and don’t the comments here prove that! When we as a society commit to the idea that violence is unacceptable for everyone, this problem will be greatly diminished, but until then – I do believe girls get the raw deal, because they are fighting a social apparatus as well as a little boy who is still figuring out how to relate to girls. The problem isn’t really with kids, people – it’s parents, and that’s why this is an incredibly important blog post. Bravo, Queen of the Couch.
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This post is vile and androgynisitic. You just simply hate boys and it seems that so do your commentators. There have been societies that would drown the boy children, even though they grow to be better hunters. There is some implication that the boys know what the hell they are supposed to do as children. They don’t. They use their instincts. If you don’t like the instincts of boys, then you should be on another planet. This one needs boys for survival as much as it needs girls. Take your sexism…. elsewhere.
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OK I’ll bite …..
“…You just simply hate boys and it seems that so do your commentators….”
Are you implying that for a girl to assert her right NOT to be ‘manhandled’ (and for a parent to encourage this) = hating boys?
“…There have been societies that would drown the boy children, even though they grow to be better hunters…”
Are you implying that young girls must become (or remain) totally non assertive in order to stop society sliding into some barbaric practice involving drowning boys?
“….There is some implication that the boys know what the hell they are supposed to do as children. They don’t. They use their instincts….”
But girls shouldn’t use theirs, right?
“…. If you don’t like the instincts of boys, then you should be on another planet…”
Seems fair enough to me (mind you I was brought up have no self respect and to view my body as the property of others and to generally let boys treat me like a rag doll, so what would I know?….)
“…… This [planet] needs boys for survival as much as it needs girls. Take your sexism…. elsewhere…..”
Of course – survival! (like duh!) Because if girls stopped letting boys treat them like shit they wouldn’t ever get pregnant and we’d all die out as a species!
Wow…. just wow.
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Thank you. You are right on.
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She has 3 boys, dumbass.
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You seem in need to study the definition of the term “sexist”
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This rocks so hard. Thank you.
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Boys tease young girls simply because it has been scientifically proven that ladies have brains that are 3/4 the size of their male counterparts. But good for you, taking a break from the kitchen to use the Internets! Now go check on the roast.
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Wow, that’s a very original joke you made there, Sammich boy! You certainly are a clever one.
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the female brain carries more nerve endings which in turn make it much more efficient. That is why it is more compact. I hope your trying to be funny dude, I like stupid jokes as much as the next person, but if your not you should really do some research haha.
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Wow. You’re a dick.
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First of all, a descriptive pattern is not one that is “proved” but observed.
Secondly, the average male brain to body mass ratio is 24.5, whereas female brain to body mass is 23.8… really a miniscule difference, and much of the difference is due to the fact that females carry more water.
Third, brain size is only roughly correlated with intelligence, as what matters really are the neurological connections. By your argument, dolphins, whales, elephants, etc. are more intelligent than humans.
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Preach it….this is so true.
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And boys should remember that just because a girl punches you in the junk, it doesn’t mean she likes you either. Just sayin’
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THANK YOU! finally someone with some sense! now if only boys thought like this…
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FYI:
I just asked my 8 year old son what he would do if he liked a girl.
His response: “Keep it a secret, unless I thought she might like me too. And then I’d tell her quietly that I thought she was very very very pretty. And then I’d wait to see what she said.”
See? Not all little boys are assholes.
I have consistently taught my kids words and gestures to express love, anger, disappointment, etc. And they actually use them, at ages 8 and 10. (Not all the time, but nobody’s perfect.) But I make a point of taking their emotional education as my responsibility. LOVE THIS article.
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Hell, we don’t just do this with kids on the playground. Have you ever really watched “Beauty and the Beast?” One minute he’s throwing furniture aside, advancing on her threateningly while she begs him to stop (this is AFTER she escapes the room he locked her in when she refused to have dinner with him), and the next minute she’s singing about how he’s sweet and kind.
By the end of the movie, a singing teapot has to explain to a candlestick that the reason he didn’t change into a prince was because *she didn’t love him enough.*
Let that sink in for a minute.
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I have the same viewpoint on Disney (Beauty and the Beast, for the reasons you outlined, is my least fave). I started a blog post about it some time ago but never finished it.
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Yes Michelle….yes.
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I remember being clueless on what to do when liking a girl. I chose inaction rather than aggression, and my amorous intentions were pretty much ignored.
I’m concerned about the tenor of this post, however. A violent response to, yes, a violent action will inevitably be just as damaging to children who are learning social norms. Your desire to call another child an asshole is just as damaging as that child’s actions. As for punching the teacher in the face, well…
Rather than violence begetting violence, your advice to your daughter to shout: “stop touching me” is spot on. And good for you to teach her to expect respect from others. An active, loving parent who teaches her children these valuable lessons will overcome any idiocy the child experiences in school.
I have two boys. I look forward to the day when they become idiots around girls — it’s a wonderful, gut-wrenching, butterfly-inspiring time. I will commit to telling them, having read this post, that if they like a girl, they should do with her things that she likes to do, and if that fails, then they should do nothing and wait for the girl to catch up with them. I suspect they’ll tell me that all the other boys will laugh at them for trying, and that eventually they’ll find themselves acting out of frustration at the childhood roles boys and girls occupy.
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I want to publicly tell you that I like your post because…. I like your post.
And don’t try and do something about it. *Puffing*. Seriously, thank you for sharing this.
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Thank you so, so, so much for this.
I’ve shared it after spotting a friend linking it. And you are absolutely right!
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It’s best to start breaking their spirit and cancelling out their instincts, natural personality and self respect as young as possible. That way by the time they’ve left college, started working, paying taxes and settling down with an abusive partner it won’t feel ‘weird’.
(end of sarcasm)
Yes, yes, yes!!! I love this post and agree 100%
May I please recommend to you and all readers a bunch of amazing videos on parenting (and its effects on family and society) by the formidable and thoroughly entertaining Stefan Molyneux?
Here’s two I picked out which seem totally relevant to your post.
Prisoners of Childhood
‘But They Did The Best They Could’ A Moral Examination of Historical Parenting
His youtube channel is like TV in reverse….. (it nourishes your brain instead of rotting it)
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Remember this can be both ways there are alot of girls that abuse boys as well in name calling and hitting them cause a gentleman doesn’t hit back!! No one should lay a finger on each other the are just as many girl bullies as boy bullies my boys never lay a finger on another yet the do recieve abuse…They do respect women and at the ages of 3 and 5 know to hold the door for a lady and compliment her and help around the house…
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wow..that’s how one gets freshly pressed…by inserting the F word… I need to go through my blogs and do some editing…er adding…oh F*ck it…
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take a look at PETAs latest ad.. it will make you vomit.. they are “petaphiles” and support violence against women.. let them know just how sick they are
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Thank you! May I PLEASE give a copy of this to my local school district so they can incorporate it into their zero tolerance anti-bullying lame, lame, lame policy?
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OF COURSE! Although, I have been told I am not cut out for blogging or parenting because of my filthy, whore mouth and my appreciation of the vino. I wanted to respond to those people but it would have required me to set down my glass of wine.
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Great blog! I bet you had no idea of the shit storm headed your way when you posted this. It’s really unfortunate that so many people got hung up on your language and almost missed the main point. They get in the way of others who want to engage in a discussion about your topic, and not whether profanity is appropriate, or if you’re unfit or unqualified to express an opinion (IN YOUR OWN BLOG, no less) because you drink and swear. Personally, I like to read something with a bit of personality in it. Keep up the good work!
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I’m so glad this post was Freshly Pressed. Congratulations! It looks like some of the fellow bloggers have not moved beyond their bullying days in grade school by the looks of some of the comments. The WordPress audience is really changing. It used to be all supportive fellow writers. Anyway, I totally agree with your position. I’m sharing on my FB page.
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I am very fortunate to be raised by parents who expected me to not accept such behavior as well.
When I was in third grade, this meant demanding my comb back when boys would steal it from my back pocket instead of crying–what the hell was up with comb-in-the-back-pocket trend anyway? It meant chasing them down and taking it when I needed to do so. I’m not particularly proud of the physical altercations that ensued. I could have handled it better, and I was duly punished for the way I chose to take action.
When I was ten years old and at summer camp, it meant fighting the boys who jumped on me, trying to strip me to my bathing suit because I was was the well-endowed girl. It was just as frightening as it sounds, and I’m not saying that I wouldn’t have fought back and kicked at these boys had my parents told me that rough play was a sign of affection, but I do know that I felt empowered by their support to stand up for myself.
When I was in my early twenties, I woke up to a naked man who had broken into my home looming over me, pulling at my clothes. He didn’t expect me to immediately say “I’m counting to three, then I’m going to scream, and then I’m going to kick your ass”. The officers who arrived on the scene afterwards said that it was my sheer and immediate aggression that made him run away in search of an easier target. Yes, it could have gone much differently. I acted on instinct and instinct alone. I was raised to not just accept unwanted touch, and I didn’t.
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I have been telling my daughters the same thing since they started getting”hit on”…I had to explain to my mother and all my aunts that I wasn’t raising my daughters to accept any sort of abuse as cute, or flattering….I then had to point out that each and every one of them had been in abusive relationships and maybe that was why…I saw this on facebook and will be re-posting it…hopefully every one who sees it will get it!!
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This is not right from either gender. My son (10also) was teased incessantly by girls and others said the same thing – they are trying to get your attention etc. Same as you wrote above except no teacher would think he would/could be hurt by it because he is a boy and so much bigger than the girls.
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Great Post. Well said.
I clicked that link to the Chris Brown reactions and I feel slightly sick now… I actually can’t believe it.
I have a son with behavioural problems, and one of the things we struggle with is his physical outbursts. It’s getting much better and happening much less often now, but despite this being something he couldn’t really control, hitting anyone for any reason is something we have always told him is NOT OK to do. We think he’s finally getting the message. I’ve recently been trying to get him to tell me what things he thinks girls might like to do or talk about or play with if he wants to have a play date with one. Perhaps more parents should do this to give their boys better ideas on how to get a girl’s attention. Of course it’s also so important that the little girls are not told to accept physical or verbal abuse from boys or girls.
Good on you.
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The anti-violence and anti-abuse message the writer of this blog tried to send is a valid and important one. It was, sadly, done in a very inarticulate way using the most vulgar language I have seen in a while. I do hope this is not the way she speaks in front of her kid(s); however, one day, not long from now, he/she/they will read all of her that right here on the web. Well done mom. Now go curse at something and kick someone.
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The playground and classroom aren’t the only place where young girls face emotional, psychological, and/or physical violence. No adult who says, “I love you” and then verbally berates or physically slaps a child, whether the child is female or male, is demonstrating love.
If you’re going to give the message that any abusive behavior is not an expression of love, extend the message to cover the behavior that adults practice towards children too.
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I wish I had you as a mom. I’m 41 and still looking for a good one like me.
Great article!
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I love this post! I think the reasoning could also be applied to same-sex bullying. When I was in middle school, bullying by other girls was dismissed as “they’re just jealous”. Not acceptable!
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yeah, i was told that one in grammar school. “they’re just jealous” so, of course, being the extreme nerd i was – i informed my tormentors one day that they were just jealous. you can imagine how well that went for me. 🙂
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Amen! I completely agree.
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Thanks for the hissy fit! But girls are total shits to boys and girls. Get over yourself and tell your kid what my dad told me. If some hits you, hit them back twice as hard and they won’t fuck with you anymore.
Little girls acting like victims all the time starts with misconceptions like this. Don’t make your daughter a snowflake, make her woman up.
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I love this rant! Very much in line with my ideals on respect and knowing how to treat each other. I can’t stand it when weak leaders and teachers hold sway over our children. I’d love to have you guest blog on my project http://www.thewrenproject.com
It’s a thought experiment on openness and societal worth. Let me know if you’re interested.
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You’re talking about ten-year-olds. I don’t think that your view of harassment and abuse has quite sunk in at that age. While I agree that teaching kids that it’s okay for girls to be hurt by boys “because he likes you” is wrong, I completely disagree with you breaking out words like “assholes” to refer to a ten-year-old who pulls someone’s hair. I find that quite abusive, especially coming from an adult.
What I want to know is if your ire is better directed at adults who perpetrate this idea, or a ten-year-old child who’s not excusing what he did? Defend your daughter, but not by attacking children.
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Go ahead and teach your girl whatever you want but what are you going to tell her when she becomes a lesbian feminist because you are a man hater?
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If my daughter became a “lesbian feminist” I wouldn’t love her any less. My oldest son used to carry a purse. I let him and–guess what—he doesn’t carry a purse anymore. He likes transformers–though, you may be offended by the fact that he also likes the color pink. He will probably be a lesbian too. OH NOOOOZ!
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It’s funny, I’m teaching my 10yo boy that it’s not okay to tease a girl if he likes her and telling him to ignore the neighbor girl who is constantly harassing, pushing and belittling him because she’s a rotten little bitch. I’ve talked to her parents (dad works for the sheriffs dept) and it’s done no good, since I can’t tell him to punch and push her back, I’m at a loss.
These days boys definitely don’t have a corner on the bullying market, girls are just as vile as the boys you’re describing.
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I’m old enough to remember having inkwells in the school desks – when I was a kid and a boy would dip a girl’s hair in the in well, or pull on their pony tail, it was said that he did it because he liked the girl.
What they were pointing out was the irony. Not saying it was acceptable to do, but that it was ironic behavior because he actually liked the girl.
I don’t know when this morphed into telling the little girl to accept it. I never would tell a young girl, oh that means he likes you, so live with it and accept it – that would be pretty asinine, in my opinion. Understand why it is happening, and *also* do something to stop it.
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Amen, sister! 🙂
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This is excellent. Excellent.
Honestly, I used to bully the bullies on the playground and all through my whole school career. No one commented on it – of course, I was punished multiple times for either sticking up for myself or sticking up for others… but I never changed and I never will. My reputation of “don’t f*ck with me” stuck with me through my senior year… and still remains. Yet, that doesn’t make me ridiculous… I am not a boy-basher, brash, out of control or disrespectful. I still remain a respected and feminine young lady, but I let people know where the line is drawn immediately. I feel that is a strong trait to develop at her age.
I am proud to read this post and I hope your daughter will feel as strongly as you and act out what you advise and realize what you notice.
On another note, I watched a short documentary on how Disney and their movies are perpetually sexist and racist and shape the young minds of America to believe that they need to fulfill their gender roles portrayed in the media. That’s some serious shit.
Also, show your daughter a newer documentary called Miss Representation. It is a beautiful documentary that mother and daughter should watch alone or together.
I wish you and your daughter luck!
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This is absurd. Kids will be kids will be kids. They tease each other. For goodness’ sake, if kids aren’t even allowed to do that, they won’t have any childhood left at all. I both teased and was teased by boys as a little kid, and I happen to be very strong and I would never stay in an abusive relationship.
Kids do not equal adults. They do not have adult emotions. Let them be kids while they can.
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But also, girls should be able to hit back if boys are fighting with them. I routinely organized playground fights and they were a blast.
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If the teasing/hair-pulling et cetera hurts so much, teach your daughter to punch the kid back. Girls are generally taller/stronger than boys of a comparable age in early grades.
As a rather quiet young boy who was the youngest in his class, I have had my fair share of being teased/scratched by girls who later admitted that they had a crush on me. It *is* normal childish behaviour, and linking it to going for abusive relationships in later life is unscientific unless you have statistical studies that prove so.So stop mollycoddling your child.
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Perhaps you ought to send this to Republicans in Congress who think its OK to assault women’s reproductive rights. I think it goes perfectly with your theme here.
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*{ Standing up and applauding for you! }*
Yes, we all use to hear that phrase. I can’t believe people keep saying it. I haven’t got a daughter, but I would hope for everyone that we stop telling our kids these things. Stop the ignorance and stop the hate!
Great post.
Regards, Dawne
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I understand where you’re coming from, and agree with it completely. But I just want to point out that this goes both ways. There are some real bitches on the playground. Just as many as there are assholes. I know you’re writing this from the perspective of a mother of a girl, but don’t think this doesn’t go the other way.
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I also have three sons but my oldest just now entered kindergarten. I haven’t dealt with this with him, at this point, but I doubt it will be any easier. My son has a genetic macular degenerative disease and is legally blind. He probably will get it as bad, if not worse, than our oldest daughter but for different reasons. I know it goes both ways, I was just writing from the perspective of my current experience.
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I wish you and your family all the best! Kids can be terribly cruel. I didn’t mean to offend you, I just wanted to make sure you were aware that this did in fact go both ways.
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You didn’t offend me at all! Thanks for reading and for your input.
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I agree with the basic premise but like some others, I think you are being a bit harsh. It isn’t black and white. Some kids, of either sex, have high emotional intelligence and others do not. It can take a long time for some children to learn to manage and express their feelings appropriately.
If you are talking about high school boys they might deserve some name calling, but in elementary school, kids make so many social mistakes, and they often regret them deeply, even when they don’t show it. Compassion and communication help, condemnation does not.
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Fantastic! This is indeed a brilliant essay. And the language is perfect. We don’t need to censor righteous indignation.
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Thank you! Yes! I remember when mom said that! It didn’t make sense to me as a young girl and you are so right about it still not making sense today.
And I defend your right to be blinded by the outrage of it and use expletives. If you are a nice girl and speak softly you will not get attention focused on the issue.
I remember the women’s lib days of rage when they told us we were just being “too sensitive” — bull! We are obviously still fighting the fight if this is what young girls are still being told today!
You go, Girl!
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Fantastic article! I remember when I was in 4th grade and a 5th grade boy would follow me around at recess and hit me. When I told adults, they said “he probably just has a crush on you” (as if that thought was supposed to make me feel better about being harassed). When I told my brothers, they told me to hit him back. The next time I saw the boy, he punched me hard in the chest right on top of the zipper on my top (it left a bruise), so I kicked him between the legs as hard as I could. For the rest of the day he sat on top of the monkey bars whimpering and telling all the other boys to stay away from me if they didn’t want to get hurt! The whole thing remains one of the clearest memories I have from my childhood.
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I think you are getting carried away with what is actually going on, I have never heard of any parent saying that its ok for kids to pick on other kids! you must have never been picked on when you were a little girl and sounds like your pretty bitter about it. So tell your duaghter that she needs to stand up for herself and tell the “bullys” to leave her alone and get over it!
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Riiiiiight J; because that tactic has worked so well for most kids bullied today: what, with all the suicides and stuff going on. Sometimes parents do need to intervene.
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This is so damn refreshing. Thank you!
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Greetings. In grades 3-6, I was the “new kid.” I was told by a few teenage girls to watch out for a certain boy. I was 8. I finally met him one day. He told me all the things he was going to “do” to and with me. I stared at him for a second, then told him “no.” He laughed and took 1 step forward. I flattened his nose, literally, with a right hook. Then I went home and told my parents. Dad took out for a steak dinner. Next day, this boy’s Mom came over with him in tow. Yes, he was wearing a tong depressor on his nose. Mom apologized profusely, of course. Dad just sat and waited. The woman looked at me right in the eye and told me that I had her full permission to do whatever it took to get her son to stop what he was doing. He, on the other hand, looked shocked. Dad chuckled. Mom blinked. I just sat there.
Apparently, this Mom had done all she knew to curb her son. Nothing worked. I ended up breaking this kid’s nose two more times. I did not go looking for him. I didn’t have to go anywhere. He was a stubborn little biscuit-eater who didn’t like the word “no.” Physical self-defense is the last option, however, it is still an option. My Dad was the one who taught me not only how to defend myself but also what I should /expect/ a male [man] should be toward me. IF he isn’t, then how he is dealt with depends upon the situation. Intelligence, free of anger, is preferred.
I have my own son now. He is 27 years old. He has always been highly respectful of females. And, has a fan base the likes of which only a rock star would understand. Yes, there have been girls in his life that have tried to harm him. I have told him many times that girls such as they are need to be treated as “physical equals.” In other words, do NOT let them beat on him just because they’re female. Don’t harm but stop them nonetheless. Thankfully, situations like that do not happen often. And, I have only had to step in once.
queenofthecouch, You have done an exceptional job. Thank you. In my childhood, I have broken many bones. Not mine, someone else’s. Am I arrogant? You better believe it. I have reared my son to exactly the same way. He is a true gentleman as well as a gentle Man.
For those of you who have actually read everything, thank you for your time. I am finished.
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You bring up a valid point in the fact that abuse is not acceptable affection, by any means. But if you’re raising your daughter to be smart and independent as it seems you are, she knows the difference between a boy who is tugging on her hair because he likes her, and someone who is just being mean to her. I grew up with every non-shy boy in my class telling me I was ugly and calling me names, from age 9 to about 15. They did major damage that I’m still getting over as an adult, but even in third grade I could tell the difference between attention-seeking and mean people. If a boy who pulls your daughter’s hair does like her, he’s just an immature boy who wants attention. Men do that, they still prod and badger and say things to gross us out and make us laugh. The difference is that he won’t want to see her cry.
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i think that the a-holes at my school are just that, a-holes. being 13 and havin to deal with kids tellin me im “lez” or that i look “stupid” or “ugly” because of the boots i wear, it makes me mad. i have helped my friends through things like this, but their problems are never as bad as mine, which to me makes them a lil selfish cuz they never help me. my mother has told me that the boys at school tease me cuz they like me. its b.s. they do it cuz im not like the girls at school who wear a87, and a-f. i wear old navy, which makes me poor in their eyes. all i have to say is f-them.
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I SO MUCH remember this from school. And I did believe it !
One boy was constantly harassing me -and the teacher told me that he was ‘too shy’ to express his affection differently.
Great and so true post.
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Oh yeah, girl power. We don’t want girls growing up thinking that being mistreated is alright. No fucking way.
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I get that as an adult who spent a couple years dealing with several nightmareish 12-14 year olds at a junior high in Japan. Being a racist demented jerk doesn’t mean you think the person supposed to be providing you with cultural lessons on the US is attractive, it means you are a racist jerk.
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When I was a kid last century ago, I was so shy, I’d never think of touching a girl much less cause her some other physical harm. Most of the time, a girl I liked would harass and scare me away.
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Excellent post and completly agree! Accepting this type of behavior not only perpetuates the concept that girls should expect violent/belittleling treatment from boys/men but also suggests to boys/men that they can belittle girls/women.
It needs to stop!
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I feel you made a very important point on setting boundaries. However, you need to understand, that this does in deed happen both directions. So while I find some of your advice commendable. I also disagree with it. Children, dependent on the age and the child, are not mature enough to deal with these emotions they act them out in several ways. This is one of them, and again this happens in both genders.
What is vitally important is as your child matures that this will eventually become unacceptable. You should know your kid well enough to know when this change in maturity happens. And this is the time that you must talk to them and tell them that this method of showing affection is no longer acceptable. Parenting goes well beyond early childhood.
I am appalled that you would steep to calling a child young enough to have recess at their school an Asshole. The difference here is you are putting a very adult anger behind their very adolescent affection. This is unacceptable to me. And I feel you may end up teaching your kid to get violent in any argument because that is your reaction to disrespect. So again here, we are talking about curbing violence and harassment in schools. This will not be curbed by threats of violence and harassment.
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OMG! Sorry, but this woman seriously needs a Valium. Her limited vocabulary (expletives) and rant reveal to me a lack of knowledge. First of all, that *IS* what boys do, secondly, no one in their right mind is suggesting that it’s acceptable behavior; it is, however NORMAL behavior and has been since the dawn of time. The author of this article sounds to me like she has some emotional issues/scars from somewhere in her life that have magnified this for her. But she’s fundamentally wrong, and I’ll tell you why I think that.
Children are children, and our job as parents is to correct inappropriate, though INSTINCTIVE behavior (just like we do with ALL instinctive, inappropriate behavior, i.e. stealing, lying, taking toys that someone else is playing with, etc). Both of my daughters have come home and told me unkind things boy have said and done, we HAVE told them that those boys like them (again, because it’s TRUE), and we have parented our girls on how to deal with situations like that – NEVER roll over and accept the abuse, but not be confrontational either. Simply teaching our daughters by example WILL show them what acceptable behavior is. When we teach them to LOVE and RESPECT THEMSELVES, love and respect others, draw healthy boundaries, treat others with kindness, etc. the issue about the rude little boy on the playground is inconsequential. Now, if one who is unable to instill those qualities in their daughters because they themselves are deficient (i.e. the author), one has a tendency to do things like over-analyze, BLAME OTHERS, or distract from the REAL issue. Clearly, that’s the case here. Boys really will be boys; children will be children.
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I’m not sure about this…I agree to an extent but…I don’t know. Growing up for me was not so much about gender roles. I was a tough girl, I arm wrestled the boys up until sixth grade and won nearly every match. They pushed me and I pushed them back. Funny, but I never remember getting in trouble, only the boys did. I also recall an incident were one of my girl friends pushed our other friend who was a boy into the street for fun. Of course, he got into trouble there as well.
Children don’t have these clearly defined “roles”. Of course the actions of adults shape them. But that doesn’t mean you have to go to the extreme of calling the boys jerks or bullies when they too are just trying to test their boundaries. Both sexes are growing up and learning, and whether your punishing the boys or condoling the girls, it has the same result. Messed up self images can be derived from many things, and children just being children is not one of them.
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I absolutely love you for posting this
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Wow.
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Super Mommy Blogger needs to calm the fuck down. Boys – nay children – do shit to other children because…they’re children. No need to read 4th wave feminist bullshit into it.
Your daughter is going to hear Girl Power to fuck-all Ohio her entire life, from every direction. By the time she turns 18 she will be convinced she can fly off to any damn planet on an Instant Girl Power Whim, and fuck you very much if a boy gives her a funny look for thinking she’s a bit overconfident.
You’re actually making it worse by putting too much emphasis on it. Kids do shit and they will be fine. Land the helicopter, she will be fine. Trust me! It’s okay!
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Girls and women were being bullied, beaten up, raped and murdered long before the advent of helicopter parenting. Go crawl back under your rock.
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Hey, great response Princess but that’s not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about the harmless stuff that kids to do other kids, not real aggressive action. Kids have done this for ages without harm until this self-esteem, ‘I’m being oppressed and in the future I will be fucked’ culture came along. Why INSIST that they feel like shit when they don’t? You’re doing more harm than good, especially to boys…that other gender, but who gives a fuck about their self-esteem?
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nice article.. and i definitely agreeable.. this should be shared around..
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It’s very refreshing to see such honesty. Thank you and love your perspective.
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mmm…dunno about this one! Sounds too exaggerated and overprotective to me. If you think kids (girls in this case) shouldn’t be near some playground pushing/shoving, you better start saving up for the therapist coz life tends to get waaaay harder than that…Pulling a girl’s hair at 8 years old, i don’t think it means that the boy is a criminal mind in development or an abusive alcoholic father, really? I just think that kids that age are developing their social skills, they are learning how to treat people around them, how to relate to them…yes, there will be some 8 year old level type of abuse and that’s why there are adults among children most of the time. I thought it was a very binary message, good and bad without any middles…and I think that in some occasions, pulling a girl’s hair does mean “I like you and I have no clue how to show it”. I read somewhere the following: “Don’t worry about what your kids hear from you, worry about what they see you do”…So, I wouldn’t punch people in the face just because they said “that means he likes you”…that would be a good opportunity to teach about respect and tolerance by action.
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Girl..you absolutely FN ROCK and you have now inspired me in my future work with young people. As someone who was being abused at home, I found it very confusing when receiving additional disrespect at school under the bullshit cloak of “affection”. This only served to explain away and negate my feelings, caused me to feel more confused about the world and my place in it and taught me I was not safe. These “justifications” by allegedly responsible adults further confirmed I was “bad”, while the boys continued and often escalated their level of disrespect with haughty glee. Girl, hats off to you for teaching your girl how to respect herself and what that looks like.
As for ED..Fuck You!!!!!!!! FIRST, you praise QC for her words (empowerment) THEN you criticise how she did it (disempowerment)!!!! And THEN you state how you would be more “receptive” to hearing her(controlling and basically ‘taking it back’). She is exercising her right to free speech and can express herself in any damned manner she sees fit as long as she is not hurting anybody. She is not here to impress YOU, so get over yourself. Either you support her or you don’t. Don’t give then take it away.
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I totally agree with this. And then we have movies that our young generation of girls are watching where there is a horrible, abusive man and the woman stays with him, thinking he really loves her. There are all kinds of things wrong with that. What is it showing us? That that’s acceptable? That woman should just put up with it? It really is terrible.
Although, I have to say, I know for a fact that every single boy who chased me and bullied me in elementary school /DID/ in fact have a “crush” on me. Even when I was a little older there was one incident where a guy was rude to me and hit me on the head with a couple of objects on occasion and it was later discovered that he liked me. Some guys just don’t know how to express how they feel towards someone, especially a girl. Boys are taught to be tough men their whole lives. They are told they can’t cry or show any kind of weakness because they will be thought of as less than a man. I think that along with teaching our daughters the importance of standing up for themselves, we should also teach our sons that it is okay to be kind, and tenderness does not make them “weak.”
That being said, I think when we are younger, it is a little more understandable when a boy who likes you and picks on you because of it. I’m not saying that is always the case or that it’s okay, but it’s just a factor in the ways of kid’s lives. However, after a certain age, it is NOT acceptable. If a man is physically or mentally abusing you, it is time to say goodbye. The same can be said about woman as well. No one deserves to be belittled, no matter their sex.
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“I will teach my daughter to accept nothing less than respect. Anyone who hurts her physically or emotionally doesn’t deserve her respect, friendship or love. ”
Very well said. I think the “abuse” thing happening in different (future) relationships is deeply rooted in this early stage of confusion for the child.
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Reblogged this on Portia Placino and commented:
A must-read. Women must be respected. Being physically and verbally abused is not ok. We should teach that as early as we can. I remember bullshit like this too. He hurts you because he has a crush on you. Thankfully, my mother is nothing like that. Those who admire the Grammy Award on Chris Brown, think again.
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Your opinion is extremely biased. You call boys who behave in this way assholes, seriously? You think they know a better way to express their confused feelings at that age? You expect 8 year old boys to open doors for girls and lay their coats over mud puddles? I have sons, and they’ve picked on girls they have liked because they don’t know a better way to get the girls attention, and the girls give them the attention they’re seeking. Teach your daughters to ignore boys who pick on them, not punch them, and teach them to pay attention to the boys who are nice to them instead of calling them names behind their backs and being rude to them. I’ve seen tons of girls treat my sons like crap until they get sick of it and start picking on them to get the right attention. Girls will be girls and boys will be freakin boys, get over it and yourself.
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I got told to ignore people who were mean to me when I was a kid. Do you have any idea what that involves when they DON’T stop right away? Trying to find a place where you can rest your eyeballs without them being in your line of sight, wishing you could close your ears because they WILL NOT SHUT UP, having every single thing about yourself being micro-analyzed because your pants legs were a bit too wide or your jacket wasn’t the right color or the moon’s in Asshole Constellation this week and ALL the kids are being jerks. And there isn’t a damn thing you can do about it.
Punching them in the nose would shut them up faster. If nothing else you’d be sent home and then you wouldn’t have to hear it anymore. Wish I’d have thought of that back then.
Why does a girl owe a boy attention just because he’s nice to her? Is that all girls are for, servicing boys? I give someone attention when they interest me, not just because they’re nice to me. I’m a human being, not a service machine. I was going to say “whore,” but that’s not an image I want to evoke when we’re talking about grade-school kids.
What are you training YOUR kids into?
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you’re the parent. if your sons are picking on someone, it’s not up to the other parent to teach their kid to walk away, its up to you to teach your child not to bully in the first place. holy jeez, the hypocrisy. i’m so scared for all children. i may never have them after reading the comments on this post.
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I believe you got your point across just fine and made me chuckle while doing so. At no point in time was I confused as to what was literal and what was meant in a joking manner.
I know tone doesn’t carry well via text, but honestly, anyone who has been on the internet for longer than a week should have the reading comprehension to understand. The folks who are mad are mad simply because they want to be.
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I need more readers like you!
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I suppose my mom was a little contradictory. I definitely heard “that means he likes you” from her on many occasions, but she also made sure that my brothers knew it was not ok to hit girls. And I think it’s pretty sad that my brothers were viewed by classmates as strange because they weren’t little brats like that.
I’ve read John Doe’s comments and I do get where he’s coming from, but it’s very hard for me to wrap my head around the fact that he can’t see that kids are not just learning that it’s ok to be physically abusive, but verbally abusive as well. And it doesn’t mean that every kid will grow up to be that way, but it’s far more likely when no one is telling them IT IS NOT OK. And I know, because I regret being somewhat abusive myself as a child. I feel like being told “that means he likes you” repeatedly not only made it ok for boys to treat me like crap, but for me to be the same way to them. And I can also say from my own experience that it most certainly can lead to severe insecurities and anxiety disorders. I may be getting better, but it’s a process.
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When I was a little boy and I saw other little boys hit little girls, I thought it meant that the other little boys were little a-holes – not that they liked the little girls.
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Reblogged this on belladexter and commented:
Very awesome post by Views from the Couch, just had to reblog.
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I love this post. Particularly your use of the word “asshattery”.
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If I shall ever have a daughter, when she encounters such situation, I will not dismiss her predicament just like that. Having stood up to bullies, I will not allow kids that I care about to suffer in the hands of them.
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Kudos! Stand up to the morons who promote this backwards bullshit designed to ignore the real issues. If you love someone, be loving. It’s that simple. And we wonder why the world is going to hell! We’re sending it there. Stop it now. Well done, Queen of the Couch.
Mark from Mark Unleashed – markunleashed.wordpress.com
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Thank you, Mark. I love having a positive male perspective.
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You have taken a serious issue and successfully have made a terrible mockery. To compare it to playground banter to wife beating or violence against women makes me think you never settled your own playground bullying.
Look I was bullied by this asshole boy I went to school with and his bullying is what you are talking about. His bullying was not the playful tease I got from the boy who liked me. He was just a plain ole bully. That is the issue you need to address.
When a boy teases harmlessly that is not bullying. BUT with my own sons I don’t give a damn they bet not touch the girl beyond a bra snap.
See people like you, overly sensitive and frivolous is what got our kids acting the way they do.
You saw what happened after parents stop spanking. The kids take over. Spare the rod spoil the child.
I say get over it. a little boy is not being an asshole if he is playfully teasing. And in my day my mom told me that he just likes you yes, but next time smack his ass.
And I know if I heard any bitch mammy call my sons a little asshole, I’ma beat the fucking shit out of her just like the beating she scared of. And I’m a female.
So go ahead and teach your daughter to be a man hater. Dumb ass.
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I don’t spank my daughter. I don’t spank her because spanking her has never, ever worked and what’s going to happen in that case is either I will have to pick another mode of punishment or I will have to escalate the hitting. Escalating the hitting doesn’t work which means we’re onto beating now. I never got to that point. I picked something that WOULD work, instead.
What do you know–every single time we’re out in public I get compliments from adults about how well-behaved she is. She has manners, says please and thank you, and gets along with kids of all ages if they let her.
Maybe the problem is YOU, not whether you spank.
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And by the way if I EVER catch a boy snapping my daughter’s bra, his parents better get to him before I do. Boobs are a no-touch zone if she’s not his girlfriend or his wife. If she’s under the age of sixteen? She’s not his damn girlfriend.
I can’t believe there’s a parent out there who ACTIVELY teaches her sons that snapping a bra is socially acceptable. WTF I don’t even.
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You know, I don’t really like how the OP called a hypothetical little boy an asshole but at least that little kid was, you know, fake. That said I find it incredibly telling how so many people coming here to disagree with the OP can’t seem to do so without calling her a name. Classy.
Anyway there’s a lot of different nuances in this discussion that I think you’re completely misreading. Nowhere do I recall anyone saying that harmless teasing at the hands of children was equivalent with abuse from adults. Another issue, though, is this very “harmless teasing” appellation that everyone is bandying about. I think half of the twisted panties some are experiencing are due to the wildly different connotations about what is happening when that phrase is used. Some seem to think we’re just talking about little boys, I don’t know, pinching little girls, and so they think this whole post is overblown and the perfect excuse to come in here and spew a shit storm at someone they don’t know (you know, totally rational behavior). But other people when talking about how they’ve been told to pretty much cope with this behavior from other kids are talking more persistent bullying, sexual harassment, or worse. And then everything in between. So, there’s massive disconnect there.
There’s a whole scale of behaviors at play here. What I think it comes down to is making sure that the seemingly small, irrelevant behavior doesn’t eventually morph into more harmful, disrespectful conduct towards others. It’s not a given that it will, but we should be setting examples of respect for our children in the hopes that they themselves will treat others well. Conversely if they aren’t treated well — whether they’re teased, bullied, or otherwise — it needs to be honestly addressed in SOME fashion.
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Spoken like a real bully. Keep your kids away from EVERYONE. You obviously can’t handle adult conversation. This is why sensible adults need to teach their daughters to be assertive and ACTIVE against bullies- because the children they face have parents like this.
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So being that you state you have children, I’m appalled you can condone even a bra snap. As you are an adult (assuming, since you state you have kids), let me ask, would you snap someone else’s bra? How would you respond if someone snapped yours (or your wife’s)?
It’s SEXUAL HARRASSMENT, no matter how old the perpetrator and the victim. It’s so sad that our entire society normalizes this shit.
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Thank you for that!! I used to teach on domestic violence awareness, and I spoke of this very thing. Great blog!!!
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You are an amazing mother. You know that, right?
I agree 100%. When I have children, I won’t ever raise them on this bullshit line.
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I know I am far from perfect but, let’s face it, perfect doesn’t exist. I am, however, completely secure that I am doing my very best. Thank you so much for your response and support.
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I rtecently read this in an article in my school paper, i agree with this fact VERYmuch, and i’d like to thank you for pointing this out!
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“I am going to punch you in the face but I hope you realize it is just my way of thanking you for the great advice you gave my daughter.”
BEST. LINE. EVER.
You sound like an incredible mother. PLEASE tell me that you’ve published a parenting book!
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This is so very true!! My daughter is 30 years old, and thank god I taught her “Fuck that shit!” Nobody has the right to abuse you in any shape or form.
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This post brought me close to tears. I love my grandmother dearly, but she gave me the same line when I was growing up–while I was facing sexual harassment and sexual assault daily from boys as a seven-year-old. Not being taught how to deal with this shit when it was happening to me has deeply messed up my ability to make friends, deal with men in constructive ways, and even deal with confrontation without having major panic attacks.
And I’m only 31. I grew up right when people in the US actually were beginning to think that maybe, just maybe, violence against women was, you know, a problem. It makes me want to punch all these enabling parents when I think of how another generation of girls (and some boys) is going to grow up to face the same pain, isolation, and social anxiety as I’ve faced because they’re simply too lazy, too sexist, and too fucking god damned careless to realize that this is misogyny and needs to stop.
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I am so sorry that you endured so much as a child. You can still empower yourself and I hope that you do. You sound like a very brave, intelligent woman and you have it in you. Thank you for reading and understanding.
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If only my mother had taught me this when I was a young girl (many moons ago). I think you definitely are on to something regarding this wrongheaded thinking contributing to tolerance of bad behavior from men.
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Thank you.
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truth. thank you.
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Thanks for reading and understanding my point.
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This was insightful and kick-ass! Thank you for making this connection from childish teasing to adult abusive relationships; I’d never thought about it that way before, but it makes total sense and opens things way up in terms of how we socialize children to behave in gendered ways, rather than looking critically at these behaviors and combatting them. I am SO sharing this as much as possible. Thank you, thank you, thank you!
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Bravo! Your daughter is very lucky to have a mom like you.
I’m lucky, too, for having parents who never fed me that crap.
When I was in kindergarten, a boy kept kissing me on the cheek whenever I stood up and recited in class. I often cried because it was so embarrassing, and the teacher would just laugh at me along with the rest of my classmates (the boy laughed, too). I told my dad about it, and he said that the next time that happened, I should knee the boy in the groin. Well, I did that and the boy never kissed me again. My teacher, however, set a meeting with my mom because of my ‘unruly behavior.’ My mom showed up for the appointment, explained to her what self-defense was, and told her that boy’s parents should also explain why they were raising a budding sex offender.
I do wonder where the “oh-he’s-harassing-you-because-he-likes-you” came from. It’s mind-boggling.
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Thank you for addressing the unacceptable crap guys get away with. Where has gentility gone? Why should females everywhere be subjected to this kind of treatment? I’m glad you got posted on Freshly Pressed. People should read this.
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Oh god yes! This is perfect!
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I arrived to your post via a link one of my FB friends posted, and I share your feelings that the two-way childhood violence needs to be addressed. I was never harassed or bullied by boys in elementary or middle school, but I had a real problem with a couple of idiots my freshman year of high school that started this rumor that I was a lesbian. Of course, nobody believed them, and I was pretty pissed because I’m a very happy hetero, and now (at the age of 29) in a relationship with the most kind, gentle man.
I don’t ever plan on having children, but if I were, I would most definitely make sure that they knew (regardless of gender) that it’s not okay to harass anyone for any reason. That means no verbal, emotional or physical abuse and if it happens, to tell an adult immediately if it happens at school and if they don’t believe or dismiss it, to tell me immediately and let me deal with the issue, whether it’s talking to staff at the school or talking directly to the perpetrator’s parents.
Children are like sponges and suck up everything going on around them. It’s no wonder they think it’s okay to pick on other kids when their parents do nothing to discipline them. It’s not okay! NEVER!
I will be sharing this on Facebook because many of my friends have children of their own now, some of which are in the early stages of elementary school.
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If a boy is truly violently abusing a girl physically or verbally – this is absolutely unacceptable. Yet what goes on in grade school most often is an innocent, non-violent, but moderately aggressive display of young male behavior. It’s a natural part of male child development – and it does indeed indicate a fondness the boy feels toward the girl. Most teachers are smart enough to recognize the difference between healthy behavior and overly aggressive behavior which would indicate a problem with the boy’s home life. This article is far too over-the-top, and indicates a clear lack of understanding relating to child development. From a psychological perspective, such an aggressive parent in the act of protecting his or her daughter could very well be doing more psychological damage that that of the innocent boy at school.
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Well and respectfully said, but I have to disagree. Scroll through the comments to the personal experiences *many* of us shared and see if you still think this.
The point that we are teaching children that aggression = affection is a good one. The boy who assaulted me in 4th grade was actually a pretty nice guy by highschool, but my experience could not be undone. And there were any number of teachers who could have nipped it in the bud.
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Ryan- well said. lots of hyper opinions here with serious lack of knowledge of how kids develop. as a parent and educator of 10 years, makes me nervous…
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I love this post! I actually talked about it with my mom and honestly couldn’t recall ever being told that a boy hit me it meant he liked me. My parents always told them to hit them back harder, ha. They wouldn’t like it either.
Even when I worked at an elementary school, I didn’t put up with that. I never let any kids hit another kid and brush it off as “oh he just likes her”. Kids shouldn’t hit no matter what!
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I am a fifth grade teacher and I totally agree with you. When some boys want attention from girls, and they have not been taught the proper way to interact with socitey, they sometimes resort to physical or verbal abuse. It is not a behavior anyone should accept and obviously the offender needs training in social skills. I teach my students the skills they need to not be an offender and how to handle offenders. Bullying is never acceptable no matter what the intention is. I appreciate your point of view as a mom. I wish I could copy your remarks and give it to parents, but your frank language makes that impossable. It made for fun reading, though.
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Obviously there are a TON of people who:
1. Can’t decipher sarcasm
2. Aren’t smart enough to discern that NO, a grown woman is NOT actually going to smack a child. That’s just ridiculous that anyone would actually think the blogger would actually do that.
This blog is mostly satire… maybe people should read a little bit more before posting stupid remarks.
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Yes! Someone who actually comprehends the message! Thank You!
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Huh?
Our blogger is spot on to call out the acceptance of boys’ misguided, inappropriate violent behavior. I believe we have the right to call the blogger out on her inappropriate, violent reaction to such behavior.
Sarcasm or no, it is NOT obvious that she is not livid enough to verbally abuse the children who malign her daughter or the teachers who tacitly condone it. What IS evident is that she is upset, and when she is upset she resorts to the same sort of behavior she detests.
Sarcasm or no, those commenters who are calling her out are just as justified in doing so as she is in holding the teachers accountable for their inaction.
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Reblogged this on VLY and commented:
Preachin it
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Not all boys are being raised to be assholes.
I have a son and a daughter, they are twins. They have both been taught that it is not right to hit other people unless in an approved situation (Karate & self defense comes to mind). They are not to take something that belongs to others. They are not to scream nor yell unless it is appropriate for the activity (sporting event, cheering, again self defense – not the dinner table). They are Seniors in High School.
Tonight my son had a friend come over because friend (nick-name is Bubba) has been worried and had not slept in over 24 hours. Friend felt that my son was the only one that would listen to his problem and support him. After an hour or two, he left to go home and get some sleep.
Tonight my son asked me why is it so difficult for people to be sympathetic listeners. Bubba has a lot of “friends”, and he came here.
Son is just like his father
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Secret from someone who used to be a little boy: every time I got into a fight with a girl it was because I hated her. Sometimes the fault would be hers, sometimes mine, but in any case there was nothing romantic about it.
Also, I used to complain about some of these annoying girls who used to pick fights with me and was told the same thing: “she likes you.” Funny way to show it.
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Daniel – You are awesome.
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I really respect what you are doing, in advocating self-respect in your daughter. I was told the same BS as a child, and noted that violence was condoned, or rather encouraged in boys. And as girls were given the message that arrogant asshole males were supposed to be attractive.
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Although I fully support am I’m glad I read your tirade on our society’s thoughtlessness when it comes to the explanation he “It means he likes you.” We should probably lighten up on the kids. Those little boys pulling hair and or hitting are most likely not going to be abusers and are more likely trying to get attention from your daughter negative or positive. Learning to communicate is something that takes some more effort than others. Relax and sick your son on the kid that stole from her!
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Reblogged this on dolacotidiana and commented:
I have to say that Views from the Couch really nails this one.
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Amen to that! I am a divorced mom of two incredible daughters ages 6 1/2 and newly 9… I raise them as you are raising your daughter as well. I am divorced b/c their Dad was verbally abusive to me and I was not going to allow them to grow up with that as any example for their self esteem and self respect begins with me. Thank you for that!
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I wish I had a mom like you, and I will certainly try to be like you to my daughter (she is nine).
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Holy cow a lot of people have truly twisted this blog. I just have one thing to say. Reading comprehension is key! It’s a shame that so many do not appear to have something as simple as understanding what they are reading.
Great fucking blog post, cursing and all!
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I never gave this particular issue much thought…until now. I’m pretty sure I didn’t get my punches, put-downs and bullying simply b/c a boy “liked me”. Because none did…but that’s not what my parents told me when I complained. They went the same route as a million other parents did by telling me, “He only picks on you because he wants your attention. He must like you.” He only picked on me because he was a goddamn bully and I was the wuss who never told on him because I believed he must like me.
Gawd..the insanity must stop!
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After working with kids for almost 15 yrs (and also hitting and punching boys i had crushes on when I was in elementary school!)- I think it’s important that we remember that kids often don’t know how to deal with what they’re feeling let alone even understand their feelings- Especially around 8-12 yrs old. I think it is absolutely perfect and acceptable to tell a kid that someone is treating them a certain way because they might have a crush on them or they want to be friends with them because often that is true! However, that also needs to be paired with a clear explanation that although that may be WHY it’s happening- it is definitely not okay behavior. And the kids that act out in this manner- which to be honest are a lot of them- need to be redirected and reminded that we can’t treat others this way. I think this essay is perhaps a little too heavy handed and needs a little perspective about how kids develop.
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Reblogged this on reinaldobanh and commented:
I have a secret here, too. 🙂
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As a mom of 4 boys, I completely agree!! My 16 yr old tried to get ugly with an ex and I nipped that in the bud right then in there! I know it was out of anger, but it was not going to be tolerated! My little ones (7, 4, and 2) all love little girls. And if anyone hits anyone mine are quick to say “no, no, no. that’s not nice”
My boys stand up for the disabled and the different ones. And they would only give girls flowers, not pull their hair. that’s just awful. Especially in this day and age of bullying!!
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I was heavily picked on in school, and I can confidently say it was not because the boys liked me.
Now, I am raising a son, and I will teach him the way correct to treat girls and women is with respect and by being honest, not picking on them, hitting them, etc.
Great post!
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I was repeatedly sexually harassed by a boy in elementary school: for a year. He’d lift up my skirt and show the class my underwear. He’d grab my butt in the hallway, or pull on the sleeves of my t-shirt. All the teachers I went to for help laughed and said he must just have a crush on me. It took me awhile before I was able to tell my parents. The principal made him & his parents apologized, but we were put in the same classroom together the next year because my teacher said I needed to “learn to get along with him.” I was in AGONY that year because the people who were supposed to protect me instead propogated the myth that that is an acceptable way for boys to treat girls.
I have sons and if a girl (or boy) pulls what you are describing NO ONE better try to feed them or me that line. It’s not affection: it’s bullying. And I am raising my boys to know they need to respect their peers.
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While I think you have a valid point, your expletive laden militant way of expressing it is sad. I don’t know if you think you’re being funny, but I’m not laughing.
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My son has been bullied in school for years, including being knocked unconscious by older students. The refrain I always hear (usually from the gym teacher/jock) is, “if he hadn’t been mouthing off, he wouldn’t have gotten hit.” Little bitty me can come across the room in no time flat to remind these assholes that I am entitled to say anything I like. If you don’t like it, walk away, tell the teacher to make me leave you alone, call the police if I’m telling lies. There is never any reason to use physical violence, especially in school, boy or girl. Sadly, I have taken to wearing my NRA pistol instructor shirt to those type of conferences, and it is most effective in getting someone to hear me.
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Threatening violence to people who don’t properly educate your children? Wow, what a crusader for peace.
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Where have you BEEN all my life?! Amen!
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Great post! I’ve passed it on!
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I agree wholeheartedly that we, as parents, have a responsibility to teach our children (of both genders) to be respectful and to expect respect in return.
However, I can’t agree with calling a child an “asshole.” It isn’t their fault that they weren’t taught or modeled appropriate behavior or disciplined properly. The parent might be an “asshole,” or they might just be trying to navigate this daunting task of parenthood and have not yet found a solution that works. Sure, some children are naturally more aggressive than others. But they usually just need to be redirected. In any case, behavior like that which you posted about is an opportunity for education.
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Oh hellz yes.
I have two daughters – a 7 year old and a 5 year old and I cannot STAND it when these excuses pop up.
I am sharing all over FB. You hit this one out of the park.
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Wow. Someone needs to calm down. A distinction needs to be made between playful teasing, which young boys often do to each other, and hard, physical, violence. A boy mildly annoying or teasing a girl is often a sign of interest of affection. Teasing, wrestling and mild rough-play is common among young boys and as long as it isn’t violent engaging with a young girl is an attempt to 1) get attention and 2) include her in that system.
The advice isn’t misplaced, it just isn’t give with the caveat. OBVIOUSLY if a boy punches a girl it’s not a sign of interest. But if he is repeatedly tossing paper ball, then it might be.
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I could NOT agree with you more..well written and point well driven..As a retired teacher, I dealt with much of this BS for almost 20 years..with no admin support..I suspect the Admin support is less now than then..so if parents aren’t willing to step up to the plate and take control, who will?…Great Great blog and don’t settle for this being acceptable, it’s NOT!
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This is a great article! I never thought of it the way you put it. Probably because I was conditioned with it my whole life. But, if (when) I have a daughter of my own, I will be teaching her this and holding on to this entry to show her!!
Thank you!
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This is going to be the first blog I ‘reblog’ on WordPress,,, this is very mind-opening and people need to read this. Like, seriously…
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Great article. We need to teach our boys the same thing. As a mother of boys, I can attest that parents of girls often accept the same behavior toward boys – my youngest has been chased, slapped, had his shoes taken, pushed, and generally harassed by a few girls in his class. At first we went with the ‘it’s because they like you’ line, but quickly realized this wasn’t teaching him how to deal with people who treat him disresepctfully. Although we stress that it is important to be polite and gentlemanly with girls, we think it’s equally important to teach them how to deal with girls who don’t reciprocate. Our advise to our sons? Tell the teacher, tell a parent, tell us! Because it’s not acceptable for anyone to treat another in that manner.
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Fuck yeah. Never thought about it like that, but you are right.
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I loved reading this! I’ve never thought about things this way, but you are SO RIGHT! I’ve always heard the same thing “when little boys pick on little girls, it means they like them” and now that I think about it that probably is where all these teenage (and grown) females think it’s perfectly okay to stay in relationships with dickheads who talk down to them and treat them badly.
I’m going to school for elementary education right now, and I am in a fifth grade class for student teaching. I see a lot of this whole “boys picking on girls” thing, and hadn’t thought much of it until now. I will definitely have to find a way to address this somehow. I don’t want to be one of those teachers that a mom wants to punch in the face!! lol
This has got to be my favorite line, by the way: “I want my daughter to know that the boy called her ugly or pushed her or pulled her hair didn’t do it because he admires her, it is because he is a little asshole and assholes are an occurrence of society that will have to be dealt with for the rest of her life.”
Great post! Thanks for sharing your thoughts out here for the world to read!
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ok so i totally agree i have two girl 13 and 12 and i’ve never told them that b/s i’ve always said tell on the and i have gone to the school more than a few times and was told that shit from the teacher and i looked at them like they where crazy and said really? so if you dont stop this from happening i told my daughter to punch him back period! lmao well lets just say my girls know to defend their selves and they have and will again!
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Reblogged this on fanaticalaboutlife and commented:
amazing post…EVERYONE should read this…
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Thank you so much for reading.
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I will disagree with this post. Parent’s think they know everything and want the best for their child. First, I will address the issue of the silly bands. You, the parent, went to the school to resolve the issue, like any parent would. That action is incredibly detrimental to a child’s autonomy, you basically conveyed the message of dependency. She learned that if something happened that she didn’t like, you would come to her rescue, admirable from a parent’s stance, however from a psychological point of view, terrible mistake. Don’t get me wrong you should help your children, but only when problems are extenuating. Let them learn to problem solve on their own. You also instilled a reactive trait, not proactive, letting her know subconsciously that she is helpless while “bullying/teasing” is going on but you will attempt to make it better afterwards.
My second issue is child social development is a process that onsets from the age of 6-10. Children during this age learn to interact. Personal space is almost non existent, (children hide between your legs from people they don’t know), Affection is displayed, and this is the key point I want to emphasize. Affection to a child could be anything from a kiss, touch, hug, sharing personal items such as toys, food, books. Affection being displayed by a child can be in various forms because the concept of social norms or acceptable affection is not developed yet. Some children develop these concepts faster than others but it is rare. A young child teasing a girl or boy has not yet fully understood the extent or implications of acceptable behavior. Young boys tend to “tease” (what we perceive as teasing) girls usually for 2 reasons social superiority (I’m better than You concept) or they don’t know how to demonstrate affection outside of immediate family members (Notice: Kids turn to shy away from kisses from family members that they don’t see often or choose not to hug them, Intimacy they can sense but don’t understand concepts). A young boy tends to wrestle with dad, play rough (football, soccer, basketball). A young boy or girl sensing attraction or the feeling of “liking” someone not in their immediate family tends to exhibit behavior they share with their parents as a way to demonstrate affection.
My third issue with this post is a personal one. You used profanity throughout your post and clearly wrote this as an emotional response laden with opinions and not facts.You threaten people who tell your daughter something other than your opinion with violence. I thought you were the one trying to stop people hurting other people? I know you are being facetious about the “slap you” threat. I do want to say congratulations, you managed to discredit your own argument in the first 5 sentences.
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Unfortunately, we inherited this bullshit myth from previous generations. Rather than wonder when it was decided to start teaching our daughters to accept this crap, let’s instead decide to stop.
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I totally agree!
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Ill kill any lil S.O.B that even thinks about doing this kind of shit to my lil girl and then send whats left of him back to his parents with a note saying sorry you raised a d-bag!
Sincerely a loving father
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It works both ways and I was that *girl* who beat up on the boys I liked.
Frankly, the hitting, teasing, hair pulling and pranking that boys and girls inflict upon each other is their unskilled method of expressing feelings for which they do not have the proper language or emotional fortitude.to express. In my observations, it begins around age four, lingers until approx seven and may (will!) make a resurgence in the tween years of 11 – 14.
We us NCC for the first offense (I don’t like it when I am hit, have my hair pulled, etc. because it hurts.) Will you keep your hands to yourself (or ask permission to gently touch my hair etc) Responding child *must* agree, in our class culture.
Second offense is a command. “Do not hit me, I don’t like it!” (then they walk away.) Third offense, we will intervene and keep the person instigating the problem with us.
Interestingly enough, currently I’m having this difficulty with a young *girl* and not one, but two boys, who are her very best friends in the world. She is constantly following them, chasing them, hitting them and generally a royal pain in the fanny prankster where they are concerned.
We haven’t used the “She likes you” language, because hitting, chasing and annoying one’s classmates is considered disruptive, disrespectful and unkind all of which are genderless offenses in our room.
Should we be excusing hitting? Absolutely not! However, if you do hear that your child has been informed that “so and so hit hit because they like you”, I encourage your teacher education to include the options above. Also perhaps help temper that with the truth of “they haven’t learned how to say how they feel kindly yet.” And empower your child, regardless of gender, with language such as “It’s okay to like me with out hitting me/pulling my hair/teasing me… (the list goes on)
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Bravo! Great point on how to deal with this when you are in a position of authority. I will definitely be giving this advice to the kids I take care of!
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Well done & very well said…I also write about empowering ourselves and our children to be aware of the signs of sex abuse as well as predators in disguise in our communities. Her words ring true and loud because so many have experienced this form of harrassment at one age or another, in school or within our own communities, including myself. Here is a link to my anti-predator blogsite: http://www.crystalcleareye.wordpress.com Thanks for telling the real deal behind the b.s. story, cause we’ve all heard that one before!
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You are an awesome mom!!! This is SPOT on!
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While I agree that this is a great message to spread, I feel the need to point out that little girls do this to little boys too. And little boys get the exact same reaction from adults. The concepts behind this article should be directed at both males and females. We should all learn to show love in a healthy, respectful way.
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Love this! Only … I’d spit in their face while I yelled “I love you!”
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You gotta throw in a shin kick, too, I think 🙂 Full spectrum of the lovin’.
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Something mothers of daughters everywhere need to read. Thanks.
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This is going to go viral. I reposted from a friend and now another’s reposted it from mine on FB… all within minutes. RIGHT ON.
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Thank you, Sister! I have been ranting about this very same thing ever since I had daughters. You are so right. It doesn’t mean they like you, all it means is that they are treating you like sh$t.
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From one mom of an awesome 10-yr old daughter to another, Bravo!
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guys its understandable to disagree but shes not telling you how to parent. she isnt YOUR mother. although we can agree to disagree no one is making you read this and if your going to be rude to her about her opinion then youre being childish. she’ll mother the way she wants and you can parent the way you want.
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More importantly (because it would stop this behavior from happening at all), we have to teach boys that it’s okay to express their emotions. As it is, most boys are taught that it’s okay to express most emotions through physicality, not words. So if they do have a crush on a girl, or simply want to get her attention, the only way they know how is to do it physically. It’s not, as you say, because they are assholes. I think it’s a pretty powerful statement from you to say they are.
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It’s a shame this is so geared toward girls. I do recall having been spat at, being given food that was spat on, being harassed and made fun of by girls all through my elementary years. Man, they really liked to spit. That was definitely the go-to comment when I brought it up. However, there was no hint of their “liking” me outside of the bullying.
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While I think it is important to talk to our children in an age-appropriate way about self-respect etc. It is also important for adults to understand that children are just that – children. They have under-developed brains and social skills. Sometimes those feelings don’t come out in the expected way.
I am the mother of a daughter, and frankly find this a little extreme. From my understanding of psychological/child development. The reason the boy is doing it IS because he has feelings he is not sure how to express appropriately so how it comes out can take the form of teasing/punching. It doesn’t mean that the girl has to stand by and accept the behaviour. It further doesn’t mean that the boy is let off the hook completely. But, it does create a basis of understanding as to why the behaviour is happening in the first place.
I think we need to be very careful about putting adult issues on children.
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I think we have all figured out that these boys haven’t developed proper social skills yet. THE ORIGINAL POINT was that people CONTINUE to not teach them proper social skills. So at age seven a boy bullies a girl because he likes her, no one teaches him it’s wrong, so he gets it hardwired into his little brain that bullying = liking a girl. What do you think he’s then going to do when he’s old enough to date and marry?
And the societal messages back that up, too. Think about how relationships are portrayed in Hollywood and on TV and in music more often than not. It can all be summed up in two words: “love hurts.”
Sorry you don’t like the idea that people need to enforce this with boys and show them that what they’re doing is wrong, but that’s exactly why the kid behavior becomes an adult issue. That attitude right there. “Don’t pick on them.” It’s not picking on them. It’s RAISING THEM.
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And 9 times out of ten are these boys being raised in a male only vacuum?
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I love you. No slapping. For reals. You have said exactly what I have been saying to my daughter’s “educators” for years. Only with awesomeness. Thank you.
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This is like literally the best blog post I’ve ever seen. Reblogging.
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Reblogged this on The Girlification of kaze_neko and commented:
Parenting at it’s finest. Lady you have my utmost respect.
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Thank you for this great post! 🙂
ข้าวดีด|ยาฆ่าหนอน|ยากำจัดหนอน|ปุ๋ย
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Queen of the Couch…I agree 100%…..just don’t use the profanity…..it isn’t LADY LIKE…..instead you should use your own advice in reverse…..Tell your child to say No Thank You!!!! Please don’t do that again!!!….Politely….Smile ;-D……the little brat will not understand the bizarre behavior because he is such a bully……then PUNCH Him in the Face!!!!!!….Actions speak way louder than words……My now 17 yr old daughter did this when she wad 3yrs to a boy who pulled her hair at the Post Office. His mother stood by and watched him without saying a word until he got a taste of his own medicine…..I don’t promote violence but do unto others as you would like others to do unto you.
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To the Author of this article
Great article – but if respect is the real theme here, clean up your language. Swearing or cursing adds nothing to the value of your article, but they do cause respect levels for you to go down.
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We as a society have so many conflicting and hypocritical messages and double standards that we throw at children (like telling a daughter not to let herself be sexually objectified while her brother’s bedroom is wallpapered with girls in bikinis).
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Thank you for posting this. A good number of kids will learn that hitting others is not okay and stick up for themselves. However, there are far too many who never learn or are affected by the abuse they have to put up with. My parents never taught me that a boy was acting a certain way because he liked me, but other authority figures adopt that attitude and it’s a huge problem.
When I was in high school, I was bullied by a guy who sat next to me. One day, he yanked on my bracelet so hard that my desk started tipping to the side and I wound up with a bruise across my hand that lasted for a couple days. I don’t remember if I hit him back or not, but I caused enough of a scene for the teacher to stop lecturing and ask what was going on. I said, “____ was harassing me”. His only response was “Some boys harass girls because they like them. Maybe ____ likes you.” The embarrassment got the guy to stop for at least the rest of the day, but my teacher should have moved one of us or threaten the guy with detention. After that incident, I no longer trusted teachers to take care of anything, and it was only my desire to not be suspended that kept me from getting into too many fights for the rest of high school.
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Thank you
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It’s about time. Those responses to girls are so disempowering that you don’t even know why you feel less-than or like crap many years later… it just becomes a part of you until you read something like this and realize it was all bullshit. Great work!
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Thank you!!!
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When the fuck did it become just about the girls getting hit boys go through it to but we are told that we shoulndn’t say anything because it will mean we are weak. As someone that was brought up to never hit a woman and was in a physically abusive marriage for a time it is time to make a stand. Women want equality fine you hit me expect to get knocked the fuck out!!! Oh and nice fucking example you are setting with that bottle of Jack. Learn to be more responsible.
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Obviously this post has been written by a woman about issues affecting her daughter. It’s just one part of the entire giant bullying/abuse issue.People shouldn’t be expected to make sure every post they make is inclusive of all people and all situations, when they are only addressing one particular issue.
I’m sure she would be super happy to see someone go to the effort of writing a similar post about the effects of girls bullying boys. But that doesn’t mean she should have to do it for you. If it’s something you’re so passionate about, why don’t you write about it, just as she has done with her issue?
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I love this, but also agree with other comments regarding the gender bias.
Growing up, I know I had my fair share of female friends who were ABSOLUTELY BRUTAL to their “crushes” (physically). And they were able to get away with it, not because “girls will be girls” but because “real boys don’t complain when a girl hits them.”
-b
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Now that I think about it, we were all tomboys. Wonder what type of messages we as young “boyish” females were receiving?
Another random memory: me in elementary school, and a neighbor playfully tugging my pigtail in front of my dad. The neighbor? He was in his 50’s. :yeek:
-b
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This is brilliant. You must be an amazing mum.
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I hate feminists.
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That’s really great, juts keep in mind that calling the little boy an ‘asshole’ makes you no better. Why don’t you say it like it is, he has never been taught a good way of approaching a girl he likes.
Why aren’t we teaching that to our kids, instead of historical facts and figures they can look up on wikipedia anyways…
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I am ashamed to say that I never even thought about this point of view…no, wait, reality. I consider myself to be pretty forward thinking, but in this regard, I certainly fell short. But you are right. So right! While I’ve never uttered the words to my step-daughter “he must have a crush on you”, it is probably only because we haven’t encountered this situation (thankfully!) yet. YET. And I might have uttered those ridiculous words had I not read this post. I now have a 2 year old son and I am a parent who can honestly say I do NOT brush off any ‘hitting’ or agressive behaviour. It is dealt with each.and.every.time. Exhausting as it can sometimes be. But, having read this post, I can say THANK YOU queenofthecouch, you enlightened me. And in response to the replies complaining of the style you chose to get your message across: meh. As long as the message gets through to people; makes an impact, then they style or delivery of that message shouldn’t be an issue amoung adults. You did good queenofthecouch. Thank you again.
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Interesting article. As a teacher of ten-year-olds, I often find the opposite to be true. The girls are far more socially advanced and often need to be chastised for hitting, following, teasing, spreading rumours, etc., about boys they like. Recently, we had to deal with a girl who was repeatedly calling a boy’s house at 11:00 pm or later. When boys engage in violent behaviour like the type described, it is generally considered a very serious offence. I hope that you personally speak to any teacher that is giving your daughter such advice – they obviously need a wake-up call.
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AMAZING!!! SPREAD THIS!
http://sheetsofecotton.wordpress.com/
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Great post. i couldn’t possibly read all the comments even though I wanted to.The ones I did read are provoking and good (well a few aren’t so good). Anyway, Thanks for addressing this in such a constructive manner. Reposting on my FB page.
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FABULOUS post…one of the best post I’ve ever read…liked it so much and the facts put on are damn right…
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Bullying, regardless of sex, race, religion, age, etc., is wrong. Period.
With that said, I still cannot fathom how when I was in grade school and being chased around the playground by a boy with a baseball bat intending serious harm (still have a mark he left) meant that he really liked me. Or how about when he followed me home from school every day, calling me names and trying to punch me. Yeah, I could totally feel the love then.
Bottom line, bullying is intolerable. I urge everyone to check out this guys books and blog, as he’s helped me, and so many others, deal with bullies: http://www.bulliesbegoneblog.com/
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I agree with the post. Women needs to stand up from people who are picking on or harassing them. This was a very good post.
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I apologize, miss, but my hands have gone numb from clapping. Please pardon this short response to your amazing piece. Well done!
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I have 2 boys, one newborn and one starting school next week. This advice is great and taken. Thank you! My boys will not be taught that hitting/hair pulling ect is acceptable. Or that anyone can do the same to them.
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Great blog, I am glad I found it. I will have to follow it on a more regular basis.
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I totally agree with you. Bad behaviour should never be excused. Sometimes these days it is the girls teasing the boys too! Sometimes the boys don’t know how to stand up to these girls either. Respect, my young children, it is all about respect.
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Reblogged this on Arnold & Wadsworth – Washington and commented:
Great blog with great content.
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Great , thanks you for this post .. live and learning
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Both my daughter and son have dealt with bullies! Bullies start with teasing and progress to hitting… I say this in response to someone who said teasing is not bullying! Our society has a huge problem with bullies, and if you think that you child’s school is going to protect your kids with their no-violence tolerated? You are completely wrong! As my experience has been teachers, and principles do nothing as their hands are probably tied. You have to teach your kids how to handle a bully, and it is best if they handle them at the teasing stage rather than the violent stage.
Some things I learned as a kid about bullies that I taught my daughter and my 12 year old son. 1. The reason the bully is a bully is because they are insecure. 2. Bullies are generally more afraid of you than you are of them. 3. Face off with them, by looking them in the eye and taking back your power.
I will never forget the day my daughter shut up an entire playground standing up to one of the school bullies. My daughter wore glasses from Kindergarten on, and the kids thought it fun to call her four eyes. This particular year we had bought her glasses with the magnetic sunglasses clip on. She was out on the playground and the Bully called her four eyes. My daughter, looked back at her and asked, “What’s your problem can’t you count?” She then proceeded to count her “eyes” including each lens from one to six. No one ever called her four eyes again.
When my son came home complaining because kids were teasing him about being a nerd. I sent him back to school with this advise, tell them, “Yeah! Ain’t it great! Someday you are all going to work for me!” That shut up the bullies, because you can not tease a kid about something they own.
My daughter is smaller than most, and in junior high was often mistaken for a 7 year old. She had just started at a new school, and the school bully who know one had ever stood up too, came over to her. She not only stood up to her, but told the girl a bit about how things were going to be. The girl did not know what to do, and walked away. This girl never crossed my daughter even in High School. My daughter stood up to a six foot tall football player once who was hassling one of her friends.
My point is that they only real way to deal with a bully is for the kids to deal with it. If mommy interferes, or teachers or principles the bully will just move to outside the school. My sister taught me (a natural tomboy to begin with) to stand on my own two feet. I dealt with all of my own bullies.
One other thought, boys clear up to high school don’t always think. I loved working out in high school and even took extra P.E. classes. I was into weight lifting and was one of the first girls in our area to join a weight lifting class. One day in the hall having had to prove myself in the class first, I saw one of my new friends a Varsity football player. He walked up to me punched me in the arm knocked me half way across the hall, and said “Hey Buddy!” I still laugh how it did not connect that I really wasn’t as big or tough as he was. He then asked me if I was okay, and I got up and punched back, and said “Dude, I am still a girl!” He wasn’t trying to be mean he just thought because I lifted weights I was tough like all the other football player friends we worked out with.
Peace and Harmony,
Sallyjane
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You go girl! As far as the language goes, y’all can suck my clit. If you can’t “distribute this material” because of her colorful vocabulary, then be creative and make it your own. This is a blog, a forum where authors should feel comfortable expressing their beliefs and experiences in a way that is comfortable for them. Sometimes social discourse involves “dirty language” because its a dirty subject that everyone is afraid to talk about for fear of being politically incorrect.
In other words: enough with the passive-agression and simply congratulate the woman on a job well fucking done.
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Perhaps you need to “lighten up” a teensy-weensty….
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extremely nice blog here. i am the step father of one girl and the father of another.i can promise you that if anyone wants to associate in any way with either of my little girls they will answer to me!if thats the kind of crap the schools are pulling now days i can promise you some little boy will get his ass whooped and when they call me some little principal may get his ass hooped too. my girls defend themselves well and we practice more every week. i hope you all stand up for your children no matter what society says is right or wrong. schools are about money not education. my money goes toward home school. giving my kids a real chance at a real education without public school drama……….. consider it!!!!!!!!
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Amen! I am SO sharing this!
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A to the freaking MEN! I won’t go into my own issues, but so many women are stuck in abusive relationships and can’t get out. We need to teach our daughters that they ARE BETTER than that, and can stand alone without a man! Yes, being with a mate is wonderful and beautiful when there is mutual love and respect. Our daughters need to go to college, and plan their futures WITHOUT having to depend on a man to take care of them. They need to hold out for the guy who treats her like a queen, and she in return can treat him like a king. If it doesn’t work out that way, she can leave and know that she can take care of herself. It breaks my heart to see so many women stuck in abusive relationships with no way of survival and they are forced to stay. Thank you for this blog post. It was beautifully written, and so close to my heart. Very touching, indeed.
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Seriously. I am a nanny for a ten year old girl and this same stuff happens. I told her that next time another boy stole her food from her lunch because they “like” her.. to pour her drink on their head. When the teacher asks why she did it? she can use the same excuse we’ve been feeding little girls for years. Takes one to know one boys.
Good work.
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You know, it’s weird. I recall the same experience as a child. Only, I was “harassed,” by other girls in class. I’m almost possitive now, looking back, that the deeds dealt were indeed out of affection. Though I agree these arent very possitive ways of expressing one’s affinity towards one another, its important to remember that these are children, who otherwise, don’t know any better. As to why one might behave in such a manner in the first place, tugging on a classmate’s hair, or pinching another’s neck, is due most definantly to the child’s temperment. Notice not all children do this, while a large number of other children, both boy and girl, express their fondness of another classmate through “harrassement.” It’s an innate psychological characteristic of certain children, but not all. Boys aren’t the only ones who express their affinity in this manner, but just as many girls do so as well; so please, know that like with most every other thing in life, there are two sides, and that almost nothing is black and white.
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Reblogged this on The Dreamer Propulsion Project and commented:
Smashing the patriarchy starts early…
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I feel liking this post, following your blog and writing this (meaningless) comment here do not do justice to the brilliant post up there! Kudos!
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Yikes! So much anger on your part…. What happened to……. you….? So much anger, so much angst…..so much ???? in YOU!!! Get some counseling for yourself. It’s not the little ones. It’s you and how you perceive and associate your memories of things (or facts). Whatever happened to you, it probably wasn’t what you are writing about, maybe that’s all you can remember but my bet something more from someone a lot older than your “classmates.”
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Yes, aNNIE, it’s clear from the reactions of hundreds of other commenters that this subject had absolutely zero resonance with anyone else and this is all the author’s crazy spin on things.
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While I agree about the underlying acceptance of disrespect that starts young, I’m not sure if I agree completely. I don’t think this is necessarily a gendered thing. Sometimes kids are mean, physically. I don’t know if this should be endorsed or anything, but boy or girl, sometimes feelings get expressed with a hair pull, or a push. It’s awful. But I know a couple of my girlfriends and I when we were younger beat right back up on the boys – or we’d start the physical abuse. I’m not saying this is a positive thing, just that it’s not always as simple as a one sided boys hit on girls who they like type thing.
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punching on face..hmmmm…..so funny ..hahahahaha…LOL.
Really we should thank her.
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Umm, maybe if it was a grown man punching a grown woman thats what it means, but young children don’t know HOW to express emotion, I mean, how many young boys got called weird for actually being nice to girls, or bullied for it? Young boys aren’t ALLOWED to give positive attention to young girls because their peers teach them that girls are ‘icky’. But if they want to show that they notice the girls, how are they supposed to express it? Kids act out, it doesn’t mean they are bad or evil, it just means that they don’t know how to express themselves, or are taught that expressing themselves positively is bad. While I don’t think its ok for kids to be hitting each other, you have to admit that in a post that was about children you showed far more anger and hostility than was strictly necessary. I mean, if they are in their mid to late teens, then fuck the fucking fuckers all you want, but its a bit harsh when you are that extreme about 6 year olds.
So girls should certainly stand up for themselves, but it’s not always as serious as you say.
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I totally agree with this! I remember being in elementary school and being told this all the time. I can definitely see how the progression from teasing when we’re kids to physically and mentally abusing as adults. Telling a child that it’s okay for this to happen is wrong. I couldn’t have said it better than you! Thanks for posting!!
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Wow. So many “adults” posting about the foul language on this post. Haven’t you all heard of a lil adult humor? Give me a fucking break. I hardly think the author of this post speaks to her daughter with this language when explaining the issue to her. It’s a blog. A humorous satirical look into the issue of teaching our daughters what they should and shouldn’t tolerate from a young age. I thought it was very well written, foul language and all. She spoke candidly about her annoyances with what little boys and girls are being taught by hearing “it just means he likes you.” Great blog post! The folks freaking out about a few “f-bombs” need to quit getting their fucking panties in a bunch. Geezus!
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Fuck yes!
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Word to your fucking mother!
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I didn’t tell my daughter to accept it…in fact, I didn’t have to tell her anything. She punch his lights out and when I found out about it, I “high-fived” her.
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Go for the groin.
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I don’t have kids nor did anyone ever hit me, but verbal bullying is something I’m familiar with and I know I have always been proud of the fact that I turned the other cheek to it, that being said if someone hit me I would have fought back and if someone hit my (future) kid I would probably be saying the same things you are so thanks for posting this discussion-worthy post and I look forward to reading more of your blog.
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Amen. Nothing but the truth.
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Nice article. May I share it to my friends?
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Reblogged this on JaM Beauty Blog.
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Sometimes boys are victims of this societal sickness.
I knew from a very young age that I liked girls. I didn’t hit them or yell at them — I told them I liked them. And what did I get in return? They would hit me, scream at me, and call me “queer”, and then they would tell a teacher or a parent, and *I* would get into trouble.
Later, I had the confusing experience – not once, but twice – of being dumped by girls who told me that I was “too nice” to them.
So, yeah — this is a “WTF” situation for some guys, too.
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They are just kids. 99% of them grow out of it. It’s not as bad as you want to make it. Being disrespected, and being picked on are 2 different things.
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Being disrespected, and being picked on are 2 different things. [citation needed]
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If I were to pick on this person for something she said, I don’t know, maybe she likes chocolate ice cream and it looks like poop. So she’s a poop eater. It’s completely ridiculous and pointless.
But if I were to punch her in the face for being a stupid fat cow. That’s disrespectful.
Didn’t think it was that hard to get
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You’ve apparently never worked at a women’s shelter.
Not only that, when you’re picking on someone you are showing them disrespect.
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No I never worked in a women’s shelter. But I sure lived in one as a child with my mother. Battered women’s syndrome and a child’s being picked on are 2 different things.
I know the difference. I’ve been there. Seen a woman beaten to an inch of her life. And I’ve seen a woman picked on. I pick on my wife. Just as I do everyone else. I respect nobody in this world more then my wife. She picks on me just the same.
Don’t take everything so serious. Take things with a grain of salt. To put it in words that we all should know
“life moves pretty fast. If you don’t stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.”
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Haha, WELL SAID! I’m glad this was freshly pressed. I don’t think everyone “grows out of it” because society conditions how we think from a very young age. That’s when the lessons we learn stick with us. This doesn’t only have to do with being abused by a partner, but it also teaches girls that “it’s okay” to be quiet and put up with things that are wrong. When I was young and was picked on by boys or girls, teachers didn’t seem to understand or care what was said or done. So it’s definitely important to step in and teach your kids what’s right. Good job.
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you need to get your daughter into martial arts, and tell her to kick the shit out of any boy who attacks her, because the attacks will continue ……..and the school will do nothing. When she is a teenager the attacks will still be happening
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This is GREAT. I’m a nanny of a little boy and a little girl, and I see this all the time. My girl came home the other day with a bite mark on her hand where another little child had bitten her. I asked her, straight up, “did you bite them back?” Because I certainly would have. I teach her to stand up for herself, and to not take shit from anyone. I’m trying to make her into a strong, self-sufficient woman (and to ignore those silly Disney princess movies that her parents let her watch).
Meanwhile, the little boy always, ALWAYS has to use his words. I teach him to stop and think before he does any negative action. At least once a day I’m coaching him as to what he should do if he gets angry, if he gets frustrated, etc, etc.
Kids are hard work, but it’s the damn next generation, people. We have to do a good job or we’re all screwed.
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“…I’m trying to make her into a strong, self-sufficient woman (and to ignore those silly Disney princess movies that her parents let her watch)….”
Don’t get me started on Disney! (OK too late…..)
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I agree with you for the most part and I respect your right as an adult to choose whether or not to use expletives. However, while I realize you were not intending to vilify little boys, repeatedly referring to the hypothetical/maybe not so hypothetical little boy in question as a “little asshole” for his behavior is a bit problematic at best. I just don’t think that writing any child off as an asshole based on their bad behavior is appropriate or helpful. Children, particularly young ones, have difficulty distinguishing their behavior from who they are as people. That is why when disciplining a child it is important to differentiate between your view of their bad/unacceptable behavior and your view of them as a person. He is still a child and while his behavior is indeed asshole-ish, the label “asshole” implied that that is who he is as a person. At this point in his life his (obviously unacceptable) behavior appears to be more of a reflection on the poor parenting he is receiving than his personhood. I just think that when it comes to kids a greater amount of empathy and patience is required because they are not developmentally capable of holding themselves accountable to the standards of behavior that an adult can (and should), which is why parenting is so important. For the record: I work at a rehabilitative program for domestic violence offenders (some of whom have inflicted unbelievably horrific damage) so I do see the consequences of abusive behavior going unchecked. I am not suggesting we should just “let kids be kids.” Kids absolutely need to be taught how to treat others and be held accountable to their actions, just in a developmentally appropriate way that promotes learning from their mistakes. That said your anger is understandable and I’m sure that you were (at least partly) venting. Its just the nature of this venue that unintentionally detrimental messages can be broadcast a lot of people. I am totally on board with your points about teaching kids to stand up for themselves when their boundaries are violated, and the mixed messages they receive regarding it. They were excellent.
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So far, the only arguments for why girls the age of 10, or somewhere in that ballpark, should be taught to cry out in indignation at any form of “bullying” are that “it’s not right”, “boys who get away with punching or pushing little girls turn out to be spousal abusers”, and “disrespect is a universal constant that all people regardless of age, class, sex, gender, and any other status marker will absolutely understand and in cases of said disrespect, they are always acting at maximum malice.” I don’t get it, in statutory and even in case law, the two components of any crime are both the guilty act and the guilty MINDSET. How do we go about punishing kids for things that are instilled within them not only from the parents that raise them, but the other kids that they observe on a daily basis, before they’re even capable of formulating the idea, “I’m going to hit this girl, because I want to harm/maim/incapacitate her”?
I don’t wish to claim this whole debate is a feminist ploy, it’s clear that the original post was from a specific standpoint, but the author was in no way making it a generic statement of women against men. But this is getting outright insane. The voices of reason are ignored, the ones who agree with the original post are praised for wisdom, and those who clearly don’t take the time to formulate a decent counter-argument are dismissed as either the finest example of what the post was about, or someone who needs a therapist. Respect is great, but you don’t demand respect, you earn it. You don’t earn respect by crying, you earn respect by working for it. I get it, women have undergone a lot of problems (this is a comment to most of the posters, but not the author herself), rape, abuse, specific targeting of crimes such as burglary and such. Do you honestly think that being a jerk to others is going to improve anything? Do you honestly think that the only reason men do this to women, and vice versa, is because of a one-sided gender inequality issue? Most men who, to reference an issue that seems prevalent here, become rapists or habitual sex offenders of any sort, can fit within two categories: one, a person who is born with a mental defect constituting a strong enough deviation from normal societal behavior, i.e., psychopaths, sociopaths, or simply the inability to tell right from wrong; and two, a person who is born normally but is raised improperly by the guardians or subjected to otherwise traumatic behavior, thus learning a great deal of hatred for the group(s) who caused them to learn such great shame.
Do you think the issue is going to really go away just by teaching any individual person that this is “wrong”? As adults, most of us understand the words of Ring Around the Rosie, yet do we discuss that with our children? Do you think they’d honestly care enough to remember it, assuming they haven’t been shaken into a frightful stupor by their overbearing parents? It’s simply trying to control something that you can’t, and it will not change a thing. It’s as if adults in this context believe that they never did a thing to harm another child during their stay in elementary school, most specifically, something that was unwarranted. Should we honestly, and reasonably believe that every boy who was teased by the girl who wanted to be his pretend girlfriend, then laughed with all her friends behind his back turns out to be a sexual offender who wears imitates Charles Manson or Jack the Ripper? Should we honestly, and reasonably believe that every girl who played with her friends and was knocked down, or had a boy steal one of her stretchy bracelets because he was jealous and wanted one also, turns out to be the victim of spousal abuse and has to hide out in a community house as an anonymous guest? And most importantly, do YOU think that the extreme actions you take to outlaw such behavior, whether gender specific, or under the heading of standard bullying, will change anything and keep your daughter and sons protected from every negative circumstance that may come their way? I personally find it better to serve through example, and teach my children that they can be strong without being abusive in return, that they can be steadfast without being insensitive to the needs of others, and that the proper solution can be found without resorting to the “equal yet opposite reaction” principal that the golden rule, that seems interestingly upheld by those in favor of the original post, yet overlooked in the sense that it can come back to bite them in the rear in the future, prescribes.
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Zoey, first of all I think you are perhaps over complicating the fairly simple ‘philosophy’ expressed in the original post (in a humorous way, too).
You say:
“…Respect is great, but you don’t demand respect, you earn it. You don’t earn respect by crying, you earn respect by working for it….”
That’s all very groovy but it’s not relevant to this kind of scenario with children. We’re talking pinching and hair pulling in the playground…. not client management skills in the workplace.
Like so many commentators, you seem to be arguing for girls to have a ‘not worthy of respect’ status by default. And what’s so alarming to me is that (again like with so many others) you seem to be doing this without consciously realising it.
You’re implying the onus is on the girl to first ‘earn respect’ or prove she is worthy of respect before she can be treated with respect. What must she do to earn the right to not have her hair pulled – charity work or something?
Jeez… It’s just scary how so many people seem to have a difficulty accepting that girls (and boys and pets and *everyone*) automatically have the right to be treated with basic respect. THAT is the default status for everyone.
It’s called property rights. My things are my property. My body is my property too. No stealing. No trespassing….. It’s hardly rocket science!
Does this mean children can’t play and push boundaries and engage in the ‘rough and tumble’ of social interaction? Of course not! Most of us ENJOY being fairly relaxed about our property – whether that be our homes, our stuff or our bodies. But stealing, or hair pulling or pinching is crossing a line…. if you disagree try it with someone you work with in the office tomorrow!
But it’s all about negotiation. Girls MUST feel able to negotiate their own interactions with boys and define their own boundaries. They MUST feel able to stand up for themselves and defend their property rights whenever they feel uncomfortable (or in pain!!!).
A lot of people seem to think that girls standing up for themselves is overly ‘feminist’ and that boys’ behaviour and rights need to be taken into consideration too.
WELL LET ME SAY THIS:
If we train girls to be passive and subservient we are actually doing boys just as much damage, because now they won’t be getting the feedback THEY NEED to learn how to properly interact with girls. And then before you know it society is all messed up, and then the next generation end up being brought up by messed up parents and round and round it goes…..
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Obviously, a very relevant and provocative post. Bravo, Queen o’ the Couch! This is a nuanced subject, of course, but the thesis–we should NEVER give our daughters the message that violence is a “special” vehicle for male affection–is pretty rock solid. People will argue about anything–and often very poorly.
On another note: It’s a school’s job to keep our kids safe. Period. I’m a teacher and I know if a student is fearful at school he or she will not be able to learn. All this crap about “When I went to school, we fought out own battles” is ridiculous. Not long ago, people were saying, “When I got sick, the doctor used to give me a good bleedin’. I survived!” Didn’t mean we shouldn’t, like, find a better way.
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Girls hit boys too. Get real.
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“Look, if you want to tell your child that being verbally and/or physically abused is an acceptable sign of affection, i urge you to rethink your parenting strategy.”
Your definition of ‘Abuse’ is very lacking and smacks of ‘oh, I don’t approve of this, it is abuse’.
I will overlook the psychological abuse that the fairer sex imposes on boys. It is a known fact girls mature before boys, and it is also known that girls engage in ‘Social Aggression’ years before boys figure it out. Girls learn what words and social cues mean, and use them negatively to great effect long before their male peers figure it out. Is that ‘Abuse’? For my boy, I would say yes. Fantastic, you have a 1-2 year lead on ‘Abuse’ as you define it.
Yeah, believe it or not that boy pulling on your pig tails *is* actually trying to say ‘I like you’. Equating it with abuse and future abuse is ridiculous. I agree it is counter-intuitive, but welcome to being big apes.
Abuse is real, harmful, life changing, hurtful, horrible. Abuse is real, this is trivialising it. A boy will hit another boy as a sign of affection – this behaviour really does go on to adulthood. But there is also a strong line drawn for strangers and friends. No boy will touch a stranger, and there is also lines for what you can do to a girl (and here I am talking the average normal boy). It depends on the situation and he people involved however – real abuse? Punching, kicking, hitting, hurting? No.
That means REAL Abuse. Is this part of the behaviour you describe? No, this is learned elsewhere, not through casual interaction. Not through pig tails. Make strong daughters, I implore you. But that boy Bobby, who bumped you …likes you. He has no words.
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Hi Bob,
Just to let you know The Society of Not Double Standards would love you to come and speak at our next meeting.
You said:
“… Girls learn what words and social cues mean, and use them negatively to great effect long before their male peers figure it out. Is that ‘Abuse’? For my boy, I would say yes….”
Then you said:
“….Yeah, believe it or not that boy pulling on your pig tails *is* actually trying to say ‘I like you’. Equating it with abuse and future abuse is ridiculous. I agree it is counter-intuitive, but welcome to being big apes…”
Summary of non double standard:
Girl chat is abuse.
Boy violence is affection.
(And there’s the world in a nutshell. Sigh.)
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Brilliant! i completely agree, and have passed the article on to my mothers group 🙂
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Very well done article. To answer your question on when did this become acceptable behavior.. Well, since the dawn of man men have been mistreating women. Remember it really wasn’t all that long ago that women were property of their husbands or fathers. It’s ingrained in race memory. Hopefully we can change that.
I have a 10 year old son that you would approve of as he has been taught that doing that is not appropriate (and to my knowledge has never done it). Not only that, he stands up for the other kids (older and younger) that he sees getting picked on. I’m proud of the kid I’m raising. My son lives with his mom but I see him several times a week and remain very active in his life and how he is being raised. If only more people would take a more active role in their children’s lives we would have a better world.
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JW, you said
“…since the dawn of man men have been mistreating women. …”
Just to be accurate, not all cultures throughout recorded history have mistreated women or even been patriarchal. And then of course there are all the ancient civilisations which pre-date recorded history!
I’m sure many ancient cultures watching an episode of Jerry Springer would shout “Savages! cavemen! Wife beaters!”
The truth is that the history taught to us in government schools is a joke – in fact it is propaganda. The whole concept of ‘inevitable progress as a consequence of time’ is drummed into us to make us feel that things are always getting better naturally – the implication being that we don’t need to make such an effort to right the current wrongs and injustices in our society.
The whole concept of ‘Progress’ is basically a dangerous lie designed to pacify the masses.
Just imagine how different our attitudes would be if we were taught in schools that society can quickly get a lot WORSE if we are complacent and careless (such as watching TV and sports all day long and being obsessed by celebs and shopping). The reality is that tyrannical and oppressive regimes can spring up in a matter of a few years. They always have, they always do and many would say they are doing so again right now.
But by teaching children that everyone lived like ‘cavemen’ in the past and that things have never been better than today we all tend to automatically think things are pretty great in the present – even when things are not always so great. Even when things are in fact getting worse.
There is simply NO SUCH THING as linear progress from caveman barbarism at the dawn of time right up to a sophisticated cultured society at the apex of human civilisation today….. that concept is (if I may say) very male (a straight line, pointing up!).
The reality is that society always moves in ebbs and flows, with complex layers, currents and cycles (and cycles within cycles). For example, women are indeed more liberated in many ways today, yet at the same time the feminist movement was also greatly hijacked and manipulated with the result that now both parents are typically forced to work just to pay the bills and more and more children are being placed in the hands of daycare, the state and Hollywood/ Disney (all of whom can now fill up children’s minds with THEIR own values).
Parents are now often too exhausted to really spend quality time with their own children and the family (and thus society) starts to break down.
I’m not saying it’s all bad, just that improvements are not automatic consequences of time.
🙂
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I can understand how being a Mom and a woman is feeling. But small boys can express their unhidden feelings in that way only. But if he isn’t apologizing later or returning things back, then its not the case…
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love this post. keep up the good work!
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You are a violent person and you are the last personal to lecture others about bullying.
to quote you: “… I am going to slap the person across the face and yell, “I LOVE YOU”. “
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Fighting one’s own battles is a glorified way of saying that one shouldn’t cry the moment he or she falls in the wood chips. Bullying may or may not be a serious issue in schools these days, as I’ve done my best to avoid them since I left them, but even I know the difference between a play fight and the two girls I saw beating each other to a bloody pulp in high school. If we want to declare a war on bullying, then sure, it should start with the parents. However, I think the issues that led to bullying go deeper than that, such as mandatory education for those who clearly could care less, for example. Things happen. Do I believe it’s reasonable to take the issue of a ten-year-old daughter being told that certain things happened to her due to some false and overused pretense like “He probably just likes you,” and turn it into a rant declaring children who are incapable of defending themselves or even legally forming “criminal intent” to be jerks (to put it nicely)? Do I believe that it’s reasonable to say that anyone who tells me otherwise shall receive the same treatment that they expect my daughter to stomach? Does it really even seem reasonable that throughout the aptly deemed “provocative” post, she uses sarcasm, abusive language, and an outright disregard for anyone other than herself or those that agree with her to describe a similar situation in which she hypocritically bashes it? I honestly don’t.
Facts: bullies are a nuisance, and there are many misguided teachings that people regurgitate on a daily basis so as to simplify the lessons that they once learned. Girls undergo teasing and bullying at the hands of their peers. So do boys.
Opinions: But for a cure to the bullying disease, those who partake in such actions will become criminals or otherwise severely disturbed individuals. Misguided teachings that are commonly recited to prove a point in an efficient manner are always memorized by the children that hear them, and taken to heart. Girls that undergo such “harsh treatments” are irrevocably damaged, pushovers, weak, and/or always carry the emotional baggage of losing their stretchy bracelets with them. Boys are naturally rude, and completely capable of looking out for themselves, therefor requiring only strict discipline as opposed to any form of equal treatment (in all forms, not just emotional expressions).
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This was a great post. Very interesting!
-http://embraceyoumag.com
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very well written. i also don’t like it when boys hurt girls just to get their attention. it’s really confusing and hurting someone will never be a sign of love.
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I don’t have a problem with the foul language but do with her violent attitude toward other parents and teachers… while I know it’s meant to be funny and make a strong point, which it does, the reality is that it’s important to show kids that violence is never a solution and to model to them how to show and accept affection in positive ways. I think a key to healing humanity of any issue is by healing ourselves and modeling it to the next generation. ….Regardless, I’ve shared this because it’s an important topic and valuable message!
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Reblogged this on WordPress Trends.
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As a young boy there was a girl who was harassing me a lot. Making fun of me, pushing me, tripping me, taking and breaking my stuff. Didn’t know what to do about it because boys can’t hit girls and at the time that was my only real solution to that kind of treatment. When I asked my mom she told me that the girl probably just had a crush on me. Used Helga Pataki to illustrate the point.
Now mind you later on the girl did ask me out. I was incredibly surprised and didn’t retain enough composure to be gentle in rejecting her and that was pretty much the last I ever heard of her, so I guess mom was right about the motivations. I can still see your point though. Sends across a pretty crappy message. Crappier if you’re a girl and it’s contextualized by your societal role in the courtship process. I’d never actually thought about any of this before. Good read.
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I had a similar problem with a girl in middle school. She would do things like call me a girl and pretend to look for a bra under my shirt. You know what though…I didn’t let it bother me, didn’t need to cry to a counselor. I dealt with it…couldn’t punch her bc I would get suspended or worse bc she was a girl, a member of a protected class.
The jokes on her, though. Looked her up on facebook and the dumb broad is on welfare with 2 kids from two different dads. Way to go Princess!
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Maybe I was a bit belligerent when I was younger but the boys who did harm me got something back whether with their tooth or loose buttons from their uniforms. My grandmother told me that nobody has the right to harm or belittle you for they don’t feed you. You are responsible for yourself and anyone who attempts to put you aside must realize that they don’t have the right to. Fortunately, I was never told that boys like you when they hurt you. My grandmother had a feminist streak in her… 🙂
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Queenofthecouch: “Is this where the phrase “hitting on girls” comes from?”
Actually, ‘hitting on girls’ stems from a much older sense of the word ‘hit’ than that meaning to strike somebody. The word originally came to English via the Vikings, from an Old Norse word meaning something like ‘to meet up with’ a person. The way we use it nowadays developed later, stemming from the idea of your fist meeting up with their face, but the original meaning has kind of survived through the centuries in a few different phrases, of which hitting on someone is the most recent.
Please carry on with your regular argument.
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The activity on this post is very sad indeed. It demonstrates the amount of bodily abuse we all suffer in this day and age whether in family violence or by others. I recall as a child the abuse my Mother suffered under my Father’s hand when he was drinking to excess. I can still hear her begging him to stop hitting her one night when I was about five or six, and realizing that I could not stop it. Those memories never leave you.
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that is why i tellmy son it is NEVER ok to push ,hit or be mean to a girl…after him seeing his father hit his mother he sarted on me…i left him and we have done some serious changing of this issue as it will keep on happening to women if it isn’t stopped by the parents.
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Really its a great and valuable post for every one thanks for your post really its interesting
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Yes even i was doing that in my child wood and i was abusing to my friends and now its correct even my son doing that and every one coming to home complainting on him really its good post for every parents to recalling what they have done in past…………..
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Set an example at home, and send ’em to school. They WILL work it out by themselves 95% of the time. Time to unload the touchy/feely stuff. Young kids are very well equipped, and more understanding than you believe. PC doesn’t cut it. Logic and experience does. Warming their britches twice in their lives doesn’t hurt either…..kids are smart. ‘School Bullies’ that are widely recognized…whole different ballgame…how much paper we got here?
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While I do agree that the I-bully-you-because-I-like-you attitude is completely wrong, I do have to stress that -sometimes- when a child bullies another, it is a way of expressing their need to be given attention to, either from the victim or from the adults. And then classical conditioning commences, as, theoretically, the adults will interfere, and then the bully repeats the act to get attention.
I guess at this point I should be giving comments on how bullies should be dealt with at this point, but I don’t really have anything to back up what I vaguely had in mind (i.e. no evidence of interference might work), so I’m just throwing this out to, hopefully, stimulate some minds.
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Great blog!
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Aaargh, don’t get me started on Disney movies! “They’re just there to entertain our kids”? Give me a break. They’re a heap of lazy sexual-stereotyping shit, and the only reason they’re so popular is because they’re there – it’s the ‘have this crap thing right now because it’s here’ vs. ‘get off your ass and go find something better’. Studio Ghibli movies are streaks ahead of Disney in every respect; artistically, linguistically, female-emancipationally (I don’t care, it is a word now). Why would I watch a badly drawn pink princess go all dewy eyed over some rich ponce when I could watch Princess Mononoke beating seven colours out of the people poisoning her forest? Or Chihiro swallowing her fear and confronting a demon so she can save her parents? Per-lease.
Apologies for going way off-topic, somebody just pushed my DisneyRant button.
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I agree that there are a number of things we tell children that project the wrong idea of affection. I also object to telling a girl that she’s going to be a heart breaker. This can lead to one of two things (in my experience), 1) she does break hearts and either enjoys it or feels bad about it (neither of which do I think is a good thing); 2) she does not get noticed romantically and wonders why everyone supposedly thought she was a heart breaker when no one will even give her the time of day. I, personally, think that the “heart breaker” message is not a good one to give anyone. *shrug* But that’s my opinion.
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Urg, sorry, that DisneyRant was in reply to a comment waaaaaaay up there, feel free not to publish it if it just mucks things up.
Thanks for posting this, it’s made me stop and think about something that, while I’ve never had to confront this issue, if it cropped up I may have reacted to unthinkingly with that age old shite. No more! I’ve taught both my kids to respect themselves and each other, but having grown up in a very strictly ‘even losing your temper is very unladylike’ household, I’ve always been a bit fuzzy on the old self-defence thing. My daughter (10) gets verbal bullying from other girls because she’s shy and prefers reading to socialising. My son (6) has also had verbal bullying, because he likes pink (long discussion on colour/gender stereotyping, and he now doesn’t give two hoots what the ignorant boys think of his gloves, and is trying to educate them on their colour mistakes!), but neither has had to deal with being physically pushed around.
Really, this post is great, and congrats on the vitriol of the trolls – proof positive you’re doing it right!
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Thankfully, I had normal parents! After a guy showing his “signs of affection” and trying to solve it by telling to the teachers, his parents, my parents talking to him directly, I solved the whole situation by showing my “signs of affection” couple of times with a big folded umbrella over his head. I don’t understand why but he ran away instead of enjoying it.
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Reblogged this on pinkatenchanted and commented:
I completely agree.. Never ever give false expressions to young children, because we are actually distorting the shape of their future.. Young guys must be taught to respect girls from the beginning and young girls must be taught the difference between display of affection and physical abuse!! (This behavior might even lead us to a society that is free of crimes through which girls are abused) Hats off to the writer of http://viewsfromthecouch.com/
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It’s so disappointing, the shit that we train young girls to put up with; I remember being on vacation when I was 12 years old with my mother and older sister in Puerto Vallarta. On the day that we were checking out, one of the hotel employees – a man in his 20s – was continuously “wolf-whistling” and making kissing noises and faces at me, and following me around whenever he could. Being only 12 years old and without my father or any of my brothers there on the trip to look after me, I was bothered by this man’s behavior and complained to my mother, who rolled her eyes and told me to get over it. I have never been able to understand how a parent can treat protecting their child like an inconvenience. On that day my mother made me feel like my feelings AND safety were of no concern, that only her precious vacation to Mexico not be disturbed. I don’t have any kids, but if I ever do, you can bet that I would not let some creep sexually harass MY young daughter EVER!!!
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TOTALLY AGREE. its just like saying rape is allowed.
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I have 3 nieces; the eldest is in High School, and the youngest is almost 3 years old. I’m not going to tolerate it if some punk kid will push them around, pull their hair, or tease them, because they “like” them. My most civil response would be to whack their heads.
I find it annoying that this kind of demented reasoning is also visible in the workplace. Guys act like arrogant buffoons to their female officemates, and the crowd cheers it on, as if supporting a “love team”.
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Crap. Thanks for that reality check.
I have, to be honest, uttered those words without thinking. I have never considered the possible impact until now.
I’m embarrassed. I’m horrified. I’m wondering how the hell I could have missed this. I will never said those words again and I will shout down anyone who says them to my children.
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Here here! I never really thought of it that way, you make some really good points!
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FIRE! I love it, great parenting there, I so admire you
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Reblogged this on sayaka and commented:
stand up for your-own-self girl .__.
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This would be a completely different article if you had a son who was sexually harassed by a girl who kissed him when he didn’t want to be kissed. I have a son who has been “abused” in this way by a girl since Kindergarden. She is going to marry him. He belongs to her. He has never pulled her hair. Do you suggest I teach him all women are abusive if they want affection when a man does not want to give it? What a hypocrite I would be then…
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I can dig it! With you all the way!
http://valentinedefrancis.wordpress.com
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I had to read this because of the headline- since yesterday I was called by my son’s school because he had punched someone in the mouth. Actually he wasn’t in trouble (well not much) since he was responding to the kid and two others calling him names and laughing at him. (Maybe a slight over-reaction but he finally stood up for himself) But the thought inside is so much more important. Why do we teach our daughters that abuse equals love. I sure as heck would not tolerate my sons doing that. Good post
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Reblogged this on Yet Learning and commented:
I loved this Blog, You have left no words for me to say, as this happens to my girl too and teachers call this crap as crush or liking, which isn’t. I tell my daughter to either stay away from such kids or give what you get. Kudos to Queen of the Couch!
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This is not really that interesting. What you mean to say is: Kids shouldn’t hit or otherwise hurt each other, they should be appropriately punished when they do, and don’t be dismissive of your child’s fear or pain if he or she has been hurt.
The rest is just mouth-frothing.
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Reblogged this on Noelle Campbell and commented:
“You didn’t thank me for kissing you”
I guess it doesn’t occur to anyone that boys learn from this experience that hitting, teasing, girls is not a good way to show affection and almost ALL of them grow out of it and, having learned that lesson and the lesson that girls like being kissed and held (because they remember that behavior in girls when they were unwillingly kissed by someone who liked them because their mother explained that ‘oh she just likes you’ instead of insisting that girl be charged with sexual harassment and suspended from school) and displays of public affection that don’t involve fists or hair pulling. Nah, because they didn’t learn it in school, they couldn’t have possibly learned from actual experience… Hmm… I wonder if this blogger also complained about the bunnies that say: Boys are stupid. Throw rocks at them! … and taught her daughter how wrong that was. I’m sure she never laughed at that, and that she clearly pointed out that throwing rocks at boys and calling them stupid would make her a real bitch. I wonder…
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All very good points, only slightly undermined by the fact that boys who are abused by girls are fed almost the same line, except of course with the added humiliation of not being a strong enough boy to do anything about it.
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Well said. Congrats on FP, we need to hear more about raising respectful kids. Subtle messages obviously don’t get through. Thanks for sharing and putting up with all the flak from responders who missed your message.
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Very good article. Luckily my mother was from the same school of thought as you, and never allowed the ‘he likes you isn’t that sweet!’ excuse to fly.
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Everybody needs to read this…good thinking message..
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A few years ago, aged 25, I was walking down the street when a group of three 12 year olds threatened to sexually assault me with a big stick of wood they were carrying.
Well, I saw red and the before I knew what I was doing, I’d managed to fell one of them with a hefty blow in the mush, before grabbing the offending stick. As he moaned on the floor, his friends stood before me in utter outrage. I really shouldn’t have done that, apparently. Maybe they were right. I mean, randomly threatening to rape women in the street… that’s just a bit fun, innit?
For some reason, I’m guessing they would have expected a wallop had they tried the same thing with a dude. So why be surprised that I fought back? Conditioning from early age? Could be.
Great article and I do heartily agree. Women are expected to accept threats, attacks and insults without defending themselves, and we must stop perpetuating this utter bullshit any further.
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Fabby post, so so so true!
Should be a mental sticky in every mother’s metaphorical guide book!
xx
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I love this!
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What a powerful post! I so completely agree with everything you said. I’ve gone through these kinds of experiences a lot as a kid, and am still going through it today as a woman. Women are being bullied, belittled, abused, harassed, humiliated and disrespected so much on a regular basis and it infuriates me that society teaches us as little girls AND as women that this is acceptable and this is the way the world works. Good on you for teaching your daughter and you sons that it is NOT acceptable. You are a true riot grrrl in my book!
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…and some many years later when that same boy who liked you so much at the playground and who’s now your boss, maybe just your co-worker even, leaves his dirty dishes for you to clean up because he doesn’t know how to open the dishwasher or call you “girl” even when you’re 40 years old and the mother of two and with a Master’s Degree or ask you to drop everything you’re doing at the moment to look up a phone number for him that he for some reason can’t manage to do himself it’s only because he likes you. Or, maybe, because he was taught not to respect you.
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As the mother of a 12 year old daughter I, thanks for this post! There is no way I would allow any of that garbage. And my daughter whole heartedly agrees.
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Great read. I was taught that abuse = affection. Hurt me, killed my sister. I wrote about it in “If I Am Missing or Dead: a sister’s story of love, murder and liberation.” Our kids have to be taught to call out assholian behavior for what it is so girls don’t wonder later if, gee, love has to be high drama.
Janine Latus
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You’re PERFECTLY right. Women cannot agree that kind of behavior. When I was a child, I used to act as a boy (plays, clothes, brutality against some boys). That seemed the only way to defend myself & my (female) friends. Was worse while adolescence, few boys annoying 1 girl was supposed to be “normal”, “a proof of interest”… I gained enemies defending girls with my nails!
When you become a woman, not only male society but also your own female friends encourage you to be nice, soft, to say “Yes” to any male’s (possible boyfriend) argument. To bend.
Each time I agreed with that behavior, a man walked over my head (or other part of me).
Ok, lot of people say I’m “un garçon manqué” (not feminine at all). But that’s disrespect wich oblige me to be that way. I’m NOT a doll! 😉
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Reblogged this on aka Gringita and commented:
Ok, it’s a little like cheating not to post my own blog today. But I just really liked this so very much. (You can criticize me for it, but I’ll know that just means you like me…)
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Some readers are losing their $hit that you’re using foul language but I think it’s what makes your blog authentic and personal. It’s a BLOG, a personal one at that, not a journalistic article. That being said I like the message of what you’re trying to convey. Hitting, teasing, tormenting IS NOT ACCEPTABLE on both ends. Good post!
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You had me going until you started foul-mouthing, and acting like the typical feminazi, with her egalitarian BULLSHIT. Your daughter does not have a godly role model, she has a shrew for a mother.
Women are to be subservient in the home, and the sooner you get that through your ovaries, the better. You WILL be submissive, because God is not mocked.
Either you will submit to a restored Biblical Patriarchal Mosaicism (i.e., Christian Empire) or you will become the property of Shari’a Muslims.
Take your choice. The days of the lies of the feminists are soon over. And it is only women like you, who don’t have a man to RULE as he should, that will suffer. NOt because we patriarchalists are so ‘evil’ but because you don’t “get it.”
It’s your CREATED ORDER.
I pity you. But I pity your daughter more, who will grow up to be a frustrated women, thinking men are like her, and who will most likely gravitate to an abusive spouse, simply because you don’t want to have biblical authority over you.
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I’m a woman who happens to be subservient and submissive in her relationship (as you advise we should be). I still think you’re full of shit, John. If a woman is going to be submissive to her husband, it should be because she CHOOSES to be that way, not because your imaginary sky-friend tells you that all women need to be submissive. Chill the fuck out, man.
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He is downright CAH-RAZAY!
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After reading Fr. John’s humble comment just confirms the reason why I DON’T want to be Freshly Pressed…..
spread the humor:charlywalker.wordpress.com
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I really, really hope no one thinks Fr. John+ speaks for God or Jesus or Christians everywhere. Because Jesus SO did not say any of that crap. Fr. John+ just made up some crazy-ass religion that sounded good to him and suited his controlling tendencies. Jesus, on the other hand, loves people and welcomes everyone equally.
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He is a special brand of crazy, for sure!
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yes i also interested.I like this……….
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There are so many things wrong with this article it makes me sad.
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Stupid…. No body is going to say hitting a girl is OK. Or for that fact, the girl hitting the guy… like you so elegantly promote. Your blog has no flow, and the over abundance of such fine words as asshaterry make you sound even more unintelligent. If kids arn’t getting introuble for that blame it on the school and liberals. Hippies like you voted to get rid of paddling in most schools… now you can’t understand why kids act the way they do. Classic. And don’t even get me started on your picture… Bahahaha
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Best column I’ve read all year.
AMEN, sister!
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Did you ever punch the teacher in the face? 🙂
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I totally agree that as a parent, we have a responsibility to teach our children, boys and girls, that getting physical isn’t the way to properly express yourself (unless you’re dancing or something of the like), then it’s unacceptable.
I’m a mother of a seven year old daughter and a six year old son, and I’ve already had more than two talks with them about not allowing people to disrespect them with words and physical contact. So ridiculous how insensitive some children can be to others.
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Reblogged this on enchantedbybooks and commented:
Really great post that everyone should read!
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I agree with the premise of your article, but want to point out that this behavior goes both ways. My 12 y/o son is very cute and very nice, and many girls like him. Several show this by smacking him on the arms, taking his stuff, pulling his hair… I have found myself saying “Oh, it’s because they like you,” but you’re right, this behavior is unacceptable in either direction, and I will now give my son different (albeit non-aggressive) advice.
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It’s interesting I remember my brother being a victim of abusive affection by a female in 4th grade. At the time she was twice his size, and she would bully him and beat him up on the playground and the automatic reaction to her behavior was the same “that’s just her way of showing she likes you.” In return my mother brought them out for ice cream to resolve their problems…guess it can go both ways.
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I picked my son up from school yesterday and I saw him tackle a little girl to the ground twice. She said stop very clearly after the first time. I told him to stop and he said “we are just playing.” I said whenever someone says “stop” or “no” that means stop immediately. He replied “she was just playing.” They are five. Last night my spouse and I talked with him again about “no” and “stop” and how important it is that he listen when anyone, girl or boy, says stop. My husband also informed me that the day before he saw a little girl grab the hood of a little boy and yank him to the ground. Being a feminist raising a black son means the stakes are high so we are having to do extra monitoring and engagement. We hope that other parents are doing the same.
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An amazing post 🙂
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Really interesting OP. Agree with the message given. These are my thoughts on it.
I think that children gain a lot of knowledge and learned behavior directly from their parents. I also, though, believe that innately people have a sense of right and wrong from birth. This I believe is part of the survival instincts that are still part of our makeup as human beings. In the past when humans were less ‘advanced’ and with no formal educational processes, they still had to live with each other to be more successful at survival. Knowing then, that just because they could dominate a group through violence (for instance or manipulation/deception of others) was possible, there would be a process of thought that led to the conclusion that this is wrong. It would be wrong because of the consequences of their actions. Using violent behavior (or manipulation/deception) to dominate a group (rather than communication and compromise) would result in a temporary dominance within a group that would now despise that person. The possible consequences would be that they would group together and kill them, or simply refuse to co-operate with them in tasks that were essential for survival. The sex of the person did not matter.
History is littered with figures that have attempted to dominate with violence over others and though many have been successful for periods of time, it never lasted and always ended up tragically for many. All due to the actions of one or few. I believe they acted that way because either they could not psychologically acknowledge the possible consequences, or because they didn’t care about the consequences or they wanted those consequences (in other words they were psychologically ill).
In my late Father’s generation, children had consequences to their actions that were enforced by the school system. Corporal punishment still existed for both boys and girls. Yes, there are incidences where that was a power that was abused (then again we have learnt of Catholic priests sexually abusing school boys), but overall corporal punishment served as a deterrent for certain types of behavior. It helped children to consider the consequences of doing something wrong and since most didn’t want to get hit with a cane or slipper it worked very well.
Now, due to increased liberalization in many areas of society we have parents that couldn’t give a flying f’ about their children, as long as they are not being bothered by them. We have schools where teachers (adults) can be hit by children, but NOT vice-versa (no, no, no they would loose their jobs!). Although I like to believe that most children and parents still follow the doctrine of behavior that is better for other people (society) than behavior that is not (anti-social), we have an expanded minority that simply have learnt that there is no consequence to their actions.
In my father’s day if you were a boy (no matter what age) and you had hit a girl, you would have been beaten with a cane or slipper to within one inch of your life. As a boy (that would hopefully one day mature in to a man (unfortunately so many ‘men’ have not actually matured sufficiently to be men – they just got older)) you were taught that hitting, touching inappropriately (ie. without permission), spitting, whatever, towards a girl was wrong and if you did it then you would be punished severely. More so than petty theft or practical jokes on your fellow male pupils. Boy vs boy fights were usually settled in a boxing ring or lengthy detentions.
Some argue that using corporal punishment is a contradiction (violence to stop violent behavior). It doesn’t work on all. But the ones it doesn’t work on as either an experience or a deterrent have deeper issues already and usually that is directly related to what their parents are doing (or not doing).
The sad truth is that their are a growing number of people in society who have very severe psychological problems that are not diagnosed or acknowledged. Often these problems are masked by things like: they are impoverished, they are too affluent, they are addicted to drugs, etc. They then pass on those problems through their behavior and their children to the rest of us who have to suffer because of them. There are too few deterrents in place to at least make them pause to think before they act. And their number is growing all the time.
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You are saying that it is okay to cause someone physical pain if they do something that they don’t approve of? That’s what corporal punishment is. It is teaching violence is a good way to respond to behavior you disapprove of. I don’t think that hitting a defenseless child because they do something you don’t like will effectively teach them that it is wrong to hit someone. When my brother hit me and then was spanked it didn’t stop him from treating me like a punching bag in the future. I learned that if I wanted calm in the house it was best to just taking the punches and not say anything. I had tried to fight back but after years of unsucessfully fighting back I finally gave up and just let him hit me over and over. I wouldn’t even tell him to stop. I think the last time he hit me was when I was 14 or 15 and he was 17 or 18.
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I’ll admit I fell into this BS, although I tried to explain it to my 7-year-old daughter; boys are more physical and often aren’t quite as adept in displaying emotion as girl are, so they do what they know – something physical. To which my daughter wisely replied, “That doesn’t make it RIGHT to tease me just because he likes me!” to which I enthusiastically replied “Right!”
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Great article, thank you for writing about it.
I was bullied at school for 11 years, because we lived in a small village and the people in my class were always the same, so once I was marked as “The Idiot”, I stayed in this position. When I told my mum about it, she only said things like “Just ignore them”, “Just don’t listen”. I never told the teachers, because I somehow thought, it was my own fault. I WAS ugly and I DID dress wrong after all… I wish my mom had taught me to fight and not accept this behaviour.
This really is a post, that should be shared. May I translate it to German and post it on my blog?
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Entertaining and true! Loved it 🙂
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Reblogged this on ☼LIVE well… ♥LOVE much… ☺LAUGH often… and commented:
For the love of our children, and our children’s children, and so on, and so forth, PLEASE read this and share!
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No matter what I think about the rest of this debate, one thing is firmly true in my mind: Hitting is never a good thing.
No matter what the emotion was that inspired the assault and battery, it’s still violence. Just because one kid doesn’t know how to express their emotions that doesn’t mean that you can justify the behavior. This example is simply outright bullying and has done more to undermine the emotional health of kids for generations.
That being said, my own experiences are my frame of reference. I was a smallish, quiet boy who was bullied every day by two other boys on my street (I can promise they didn’t “love” me); I have two notable experiences with girls:
Exhibit A: In third grade, I kissed a girl on the playground on the cheek. I didn’t particularly like or dislike her. I just wanted to kiss a girl. Notice that I didn’t slug her in the mouth. She didn’t like it and a boy in my Cub Scout den told my mom in the car.
Exhibit B: In junior high, I was picked on by a girl for all of seventh grade. She made fun of me and put me down daily. Pretty soon, I started to defend myself in kind. In eighth grade on a school trip, she squeezed in and sat down next to me on a bench. She didn’t say a word to break the awkward silence until she uttered “It’s a really nice trip we’re having. Don’t you think?”.
Now why would this be particularly memorable? It resonates in my head because here was a girl who literally said the meanest things to diminish me on a daily basis trying to make small talk. We moved away that summer and perhaps that preserved some idyllic memory of her trying to make nice conversation as if she was interested in me as a human being.
These arguments all serve as evidence of a segment of childhood society that can’t properly express their emotions because they don’t fully understand what they are feeling. They dehumanize and depersonalize others. As others have stated, this isn’t a time to excuse it as much as it is a parenting opportunity.
For the record, I might use less language but it’s your blog and we’re all just living in it. Bravo.
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This is an issue that certainly can be dealt with and has been for many years with great success. As you pointed out, what little girl hasn’t experienced this? And yet most women are not in abusive relationships, just as most men are not batterers.
There is a lapse in the maturity of boys and girls, especially at age 10. Moreover there observation of it simply being the boy having interest in the girl is correct, you may object to the boys method of approach but he is only displaying typical behaviors of a boy his age. For the most part he is incapable of the empathetic skills necessary to contemplate that 20 or 30years from now she may be a mother herself and find him responsible for her failed or troubled relationships.
I kissed a girl on the cheek in third grade and was sent to the pricipal given a spanking and sent home for the day. But I do not blame that girl, nor the punishment I received for my being gay today.
I suggest you speak with a child psychologist or other experts in the field of psychology. There is only so much one can expect from children and from what you’;ve shared I suspect your daughter is going to be one helluva b*tch come adolescence and you have only yourself to blame.
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Please note the following errors in grammar; Paragraph 2, 2nd sentence ‘there’ should be ‘their’. Paragraph 3, 1st sentence ‘pricipal’ s/b ‘prinicipal’; same sentencea comma should follow principal, and Paragraph 4 last sentence ‘b*tch’, well actually I think that’s correct, you are going to have your hands full.
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You’re absolutely right. And I agree with gangler. Boys suffer from this sort of behaviour too! Often we are ‘taught’ that it is OK to tease other people – male or female. What is ‘teasing’? as far as I can see it’s doing something that a person will not like- with the paltry excuse that ‘you don’t mean it’ –well, that means you’re doing it to be deliberately hurtful…. well, that’s OK then, is it? ….. I think not.
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Congratulations ! Your text is perfect and your daughter has luck to have a mother like you !! Thank you 🙂
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Queen of the Couch!
Please DO NOT write that follow up piece. Instead, read the article I have linked below and post it to your blog as a response to all those spewing anti-feminist bullshit.
http://www.feminisms.org/4180/because-boys-still-matter-more-the-popularity-of-anti-bullying-campaigns-and-the-erasure-of-girl/
BTW-Loved your article AS IS!
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My follow up was going to be about all the “facts” I learned from the response to this post. I won’t back pedal from anything I said here. I stand by every single word. Aside from comments like “you should have aborted your daughter”, I can laugh at the comments scolding me for my language. I also, evidently, hate boys, since I am defending my daughter—nevermind the fact that I have three sons. It is completely laughable. Thank you for your support. I’m going to go check out your link.
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Kudos to you, queenofthecouch! 🙂
I hope you don’t mind that I have reblogged this post. This should be shared to all if we want change to happen. We owe this to our children and to the next generation.
In other note not far from this topic, have you guys seen this? How the girls reacted about Chris Brown’s Grammy performance this year? Really disturbing.
http://rhix.tumblr.com/post/17583767615/wtf-disturbing-really-treiz-nyan-dere
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As the mother of a daughter AND a son, I think this post is just brilliant. I don’t want my daughter to believe that that is how a good man shows affection and I don’t want my SON to be so out of touch with his feelings that he thinks hitting or pushing is an acceptable way to show affection. My daughter is in Kindergarten while my son is still too young for school. She’s come home and told the family at dinner time about bullies, both male and female. My husband and I are careful to talk about both types of bullies in the same fashion in front of the children. Bullying is gender neutral. It doesn’t mean less because a boy might not understand a better way to show a girl he likes her. Thanks so much for writing this; I think every parent needs to read it … expletives and all, previous posters. As an author, I believe there are times in life when everyday words can be elevated by a little brash language. This situation certainly calls for righteous indignation as well as some expletives. Again, thank you!
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I was TORTURED when i was a child. Tortured. I started going through puberty earlier than most and it was rather apparent as a little girl, and everyone – boys, girls, even teachers – took note and used it against me. And if I complained or cried about it, because I was the odd girl out, most people assumed I was just always being “too sensitive” – i swear not even the teachers noticed that every single kid in the room picked on me, and if they did, they let it happen. I was a sensitive child but seriously there were so many incidents, all the time – verbal, physical, notes left in my desk and lockers… I remember the one time I tried the “LEAVE ME ALONE!” thing all teachers and faculty say is so effective, I got yelled at by my teacher for raising my voice. So my first experiences with my body in relationship to being accepted by other people were really, really awful, and I had no one to tell me that it was wrong. Thank you for standing up for your daughter.
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While it is clear that hitting and harassment should not be condoned, you seem to focus only on male’s being the antagonists of violent behavior here. It would be much more compelling if a more balanced and universal. I had a girl who acted the said way to me in grade school, but your entry does not even posit such a possibility.
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DAMNNNNN Straight!
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Little boys not knowing how to direct their emotions might be the cause of a lot of issues including violence against women…yes…teach your daughters all those things however parents of sons need to take note…boys cry..boys feel…boys are sensitive and need to be respected as such. Perhaps receiving respect will create boys who respect. It’s time the onus be taken of the girls…yes they should learn not to take crap from boys however that’s only half the equation.
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How ironic! My husband gave me a card for Valentine’s Day with a picture of two little kids – a boy and girl – making mean faces at each other. It reads, “If we were in Kindergarted I would pull your hair AND chase you around the playground.” He coudn’t understand why I didn’t think it was hillarious.
Last year my daughter had a problem with a boy who “liked” her by teasing her and trying to trip her on the playground. I told her to kick him in the nuts. He leaves her alone now.
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Most excellent post and well-worthy of freshly pressed. Stoked to read more!! 🙂
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… Man these comments. Full of rage. Simply because of the expletives in this post.
I completely agree with this post, though. Girls shouldn’t have to deal with abuse like that and then be told ‘OH LOL HE PROBABLY LIKES YOU JUST DEAL WITH IT :DDDD’.
No. It doesn’t WORK like that. If a kid hurts someone, it’s not because they LIKE THEM. It’s because they want to get a rise out of them. They want to rile them up. Parents these days… /facepalm
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This post had a long time coming! Double standards suck. I am sharing this everywhere – with no expletives deleted. This topic deserves outrage. You are so right – I had to work in several environments where male disrespect was tolerated and even encouraged by laughter. Bad enough we are called “girls” in the work environment even though I haven’t been a “girl” since I was in elementary school. Do they call the men “boys”?
No, girls is not an endearing term, no, it’s not just a “Southern thing” that means no harm, or any other excuse used for the use of the term. It all follows from this early behavior of double standards allowed.
Thanks for saying it so strongly. Your daughters are lucky to have you as a mom! Rock on!
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I thoroughly enjoyed reading this. Expletives were used in just the right way to give the post a little more impact. The threats of physical violence are clearly hollow and jovial. Good stuff.
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Best blog post I’ve read in a while! Very well said 🙂
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Reblogged this on theneophytesblog and commented:
Amen.
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Hmmm…where did boys get this? Well how about giving them toy guns and knives etc from the time they can sit up. War is ok and rock paper scissors is a cool way to make discisions with your friends…..until the day they actually use the real thing. Fighting is always ok with your brother. Then they have a sister and treat her the same way. What a shock! And people think it’s cute.
Then when a boy treats her ‘nice’ and not like her brothers treat her, she’s confused. So he hits her instead and the messege ‘I like you’ is understood. How about we raise our children to respect themselves and others?
We tell ourselves a great lie about how we raise our children: war toys teaches boys to protect those they care about and girls are given dolls to teach them to nuture. Sadly the messege of the original intent is lost when parents only sit back and allow the kids to just figure it all out on thier own. All kids need to be taught to protect those around them but also to respect and nuture those they love.
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This is a great article following the Chris Brown commentary after the Grammys.
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I get the over all message of this, which I think is basically respect is an important lesson and by allowing boys to hit and make fun of girls we are sending mixed signals, but come on how many of those little boys are growing to be violent (or even disrepectful) towards women and how many of these little girls are growing to think any kind of abuse is ok? Children aren’t molded from what they learn from eachother, they learn how to behave and handle situations from their parents. Hence why we have the Chris Browns of the world who used to witness his father beat his mother and the Taylor Armstrongs who witness her mother being beat by her father. THIS is the stem of violent and abusive behavior, not playground shenanigans! This is making a mountain out of a molehill. If you want your children to grow up to be descent human beings then you need to lead by example.
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I totally and wholeheartely agree. If a little girl ever told me that a boy hit/grabbed/hurt her then I’d tell her it was wrong. Even more importantly I’d tell her it was not her fault, that she should never, ever blame herself for this – too many children grow up feeling that the things that are done to them are their own fault.
If a child suffers and knows that it isn’t right, it should not happen and that it’s not their fault then they can move on from it. Most of the people I know with really deep seated issues are as a result of believing that what the suffered as children was normal, was their own fault and that it was all down to them.
This is the worst crime anyone can ever inflict on a child, to make them feel the blame for what they suffer.
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SO TOTALLY AWESOME! I was told that so many times and continued to believe that til I was 14! I’ve dated losers because of it! I wish I had a mum or aunt or cousin like you that would have prevented that silly little thought to be permanently planted in my mind forever. This needs to go global. I hope you don’t mind if I share this on my blog. 🙂
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Oh man some of the responding arguments here are so annoying- YES the onus should be on boys to behave properly and yes they are little boys and may not know how to deal with their feelings- blah blah BLAH. The author is talking about her experience and isn’t necessarily telling you exactly how to deal with your children but giving you a piece of her mind- you can take it or leave it.
I’m glad this was brought up and agree fully with this post- curse words just add needed emphasis. As the parent of 1 daughter I am already making plans for the teacher conferences I will have to attend because I’m teaching her to hit back and HIT HARD. I don’t want her to play nice. I don’t want her to “be a good girl” in these situations because she will be bullied. I know this is not PC right now but frankly I don’t care. The best lesson to a boy or bully girl is a swift kick to the butt- no amount of teacherly talking after the fact will be as instructive- especially when dealing with kids who’s parents have not taught them proper boundaries.
I LOVED the comment about teaching girls to yell when they need to defend themselves by having them practice- so gonna do that with my baby!
I’m very glad I read this I immediately shared it on FB and made my husband read it- He backs you up as well.
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Great title!
Your observations are spot-on!
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I agree with you that pushing, hitting, pulling hair, verbally abusing, etc are not acceptable means of expression; regardless of what you’re trying to express (be it affection, interest, or what have you). I also think it is extremely insightful; making the connection between telling little girls not to worry because “that just means he likes you”, and the epidemic of grown women staying in abusive relationships. I personally believe that this is one of many symptoms of a much broader, systemic and societal illness; the illness of how our society chooses to raise girls differently than how we choose to raise boys. Kids are kids; raise them in an egalitarian manner and let them discover their respective gender roles on their own and in their own time. Kids are so much smarter, and understand so much more, than most adults give them credit for. Raising a child does not mean you have to micro-manage every facet of their development. Namaste.
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Bravo, bravo on your fucking profanity laced fucking post that fucking pretends to fucking attack some fucking serious shit by fucking talking about some fucked up shit that’s so fucking wrong that Adolf-fucking-Hitler could have fucking written it and got some fucking applause or some kind of fucking shit like that!
Here’s my one-sentence fucking version of your fucking post without all the fucked up fucking profanity. Ready? Here it fucking comes:
“Wrongful things are wrong!”
Yay! A fucking tautology! Yeah, I fucking said tautology! Look it the fuck up and try to understand the fucking significance that a fucking tautology has in the fucking world of logic and you’ll fucking understand why all the fucking shit you just fucking wrote down on this here fucking blog is fucking meaningless! You are a fucking blogging hero because you called little boys assholes and shit and you have a fucking picture of yourself with a bottle of fucking booze next to your face like you are some kind of fucking drunken cool mom-bitch thing courageously fucking looking out for the fucked up well being of your fucking kids and shit!
Hoo-fucking-ray!
I can’t motherfucking wait to meet your foul-mouthed fucking family some day! I’m sure their shit will just fucking light up this fucking world! You are a fucking inspiration to the fucked!
Go fuck yourself.
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THANK YOU…couldn’t have said it better (and I’m a woman and a mom)!
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@queenofthecouch
I think this is James’ special way of saying he likes you and agrees with your post 😉
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Reblogged this on nondescriptwords and commented:
I totally agree. Kudos girl! 🙂
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A lot of good posts on here in the comment section but sadly, overshadowed by Dana, Mackerelskies, and Undersigned’s messages: You can’t let somebody disrepect you physically, but it is alright to swear at them, tell them to *&#@ off if you don’t agree with them and call them names. That’s just as abusive. It’s called verbal abuse. It shows no respect. It’s just as bad. When I was in a home for battered women, there were women in there who’se husbands NEVER laid a finger on them, but made their lives a torture be constantly swearing and demeaning them. I see the same behaviour I see here on this list by both females and males.
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I heard this a lot as a teased little girl. THank you for writing this. You are a great mom.
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Apologies for my previous over-the-top post.
Interestingly, I often find that the people who are being the meanest to women are other women. This goes for kids, too.
No doubt Mankind is a bad animal. Maybe even the worst animal. And this sad fact is not gender dependent.
All previous rants aside, keep on blogging!
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That was a great post!
And the comments and discussions were great too. However, I had to leave the comments sections half way through as they were quite high in number and can’t go through them in my office time.
But from the ones I have read, the sense I get is there are lot of people who can’t get over-statement and emphasis. They have to leave the actual issue and speak about language or take things too literally and start trying to teach you the acceptable behaviour. And then there are others who want you to sound apologetic and respond defensively to such comments. They miss the point that you are talking to your daughter and telling her the acceptable behaviour. Context being your experience. You are not writing a research paper on abuse and its effect on the society and whether it happens a lot or to whom. Just your viewpoint! Kudos on standing by every word you said in the post in-spite of people wrongly interpreting you and driving you up the wall!
Congrats on being Freshly pressed. A post totally worth it 🙂
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Well stated, Sapna. I am in agreement with everyone who said, one way or another, that this is Couch Mom’s blog and she may write any way she sees fit, without being obligated to act in the role of an authority that so many commenters seem to want to assign. However, I think you said it best.
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Reblogged this on Falling Rock.
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I had a boy that used to chase me around and push me in grade two. My Dad went the other way and joked that I should just “hit him in the bread basket” next time. He didn’t think I would do it, but the next day I did and that boy never bothered me or my friends again.
Violence is definitely not the answer, but you’re right, we have to teach our kids appropriate reactions because kids will usually take your advice to heart!
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Wow, John. Congratulations on missing the entire point of the article and shifting the situation to one of normative, patriarchal standards.
But I’m so glad you feel vindicated at someone else’s hardship. ESPECIALLY because what can be more useless to America than welfare? Who cares about the situations that led her there.
Asshole.
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Andi, Princess, my comment was in response to Gangler’s comment, not the post iteself. I have already done that earlier.
“normative, patriarchal standards”
Feminism-based shaming language. Please use it on someone else.
Correct, I don’t care what led her there. She had her choices and she fucked up. Everyone goes through hard times and she is no victim, unless you think she’s somehow weaker than the rest of us? The great feminist double standard: woman are more equal than men but they deserve special treatment because they’re weaker.
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Nothing more to say except that you are fantastic and I love this post. Should be required reading for anyone who has contact with children!
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My Dad always told me “I’ve anyone hits you, hit them back” and I did. Got me into a few spots of trouble, but I regret nothing.
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How great! A tribesman (tribeswoman?) lands on Freshly Pressed! i read this post the other day and thought it was excellent. As a father of a soon to be 3 year old daughter, I agree with you whole-heartedly with your sentiment here. Great post!
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Great thoughts and I plan on bringing this up with my daughters today.
But let’s not forget that this is only half of the equation. Boys need to be taught respect and that doing this is wrong. Parents of boys: this is your job, through teaching and example.
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although I love the article there is one very difficult thought process not recognized…children and some adults have a difficulty expressing their thoughts, so revert back to our more animalistic natures (and lets face it, we are only animals after all. no matter how much we believe we have evolved). We have to be proactive in teaching our children that when they are unable to express their thoughts that they should not revert back to hitting as a way of venting. I completely agree with the article but we have realize there are a lot of parents out there that also do not have the ability to properly express themselves. thus do not have the ability to instill proper manners in their children
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At the end of the day this is your blog, and your opinion, if every other word is fuck, or you speak Klingon, is completely up to the blogger, it’s up to us to read it or not. You have a great point, and in saying that, would that same boy pull the hair of a bigger and stronger boy, of course not, because he wouldn’t be able to get away with it. My advise, every child should learn martial arts 😉
I would not pull the hair of a pretty girl knowing I would get kicked in the balls for doing it .. just sayin’
Cheers
-Ron
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Absolutely! Nobody is twisting anyone’s hoo hoo and MAKING you read this.
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Well Said!! You Rock!
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Think its one sided.
Girls in this day and age act more and more like the equals they are.
What happens when a girl is doing what you strongly dislike to a boy? How should we deal with that “asshole” or are “assholes” only male?
I think this is more a reflection on how you felt as a child that on what your child thinks. And your child has picked up on your hatred for the male species and is now feeding into that because she knows she gets attention off mommy…..
Its plain Bullshit, Im calling bullshit on it and thats that.
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Since I have a young daughter…this hit home with me. Great post!
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Victorian and early 20th Century literature actually taught that boys pinched, teased, put frogs and other creatures down girls’ dresses and other ways of “honoring” girls they liked. The little blond who went home with black pigtails from being dipped in an inkwell by the boy who sat behind her just had to endure her humiliation. When I was five years old, my father said I needed to learn to defend myself and started teaching me boxing. He must have been psychic because we moved to a part of town where boys abused girls just for their own perverse enjoyment, not because they liked them. My best friend and I were attacked at least weekly by boys our age and as much as four or five years older than we were. There was no intervention by our parents. We were expected to fight back. Even after blacking a few of their eyes, these boys didn’t stop the attacks until we reached our teenage years, and that was mostly because most of the n’er-do-wells dropped out of school and moved away. I didn’t get it then, and I don’t get it now: why an eight-year-old girl was expected to defend herself against a 12-year-old boy, but that was the hypocracy of the 1950’s man’s world.
When I tell this story to young people today, they find it hard to blieve. But I find it just as difficult to believe todays stories of boyfriend-girlfriend abuse. Our boyfriends treated us with respect and any touching was consensual. I heard of only one of these bad boys disrespecting a date, and the girl’s father took care of that immediately. After that, he had problems finding girls to go out with him. I don’t know why the bad boy problems could not have been nipped in the bud when we were children.
So, go! Queenofthecouch, say it any way you want to.
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I have 3 daughters. We send them to private schools where this crap is supposed to be watched closely but it happens regardless.
The vast majority of little boys cross this line and little to nothing is done about it. Each daughter has come home with the same story.
I like the blue streak in this article because it captures just how fucking wrong this shit is.
That said I really wanted to forward this note around to the parents email list but I know points would get lost on some folks who might judge me as acting like an angry ass clown myself!
So I’m going to “redact” the expletives and send it around to the parents.
Word. This article is gold. Thank u so much.
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LOVE
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Yes. Yes. Yes.
I’m a bit overwhelmed, even. This is required reading for all parents, those of girls and of boys.
Bravo.
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This is so right on. Thank you.
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I did the EXACT same thing in my daughter’s school. Some spoiled little kid kept bullying my child and her educators were doing the same thing ‘oo he likes you blah blah blah” and I finally went to the principal and said either she do something or I will be marching to this little boys parents house and doing the exact same thing to their parent and see how they like it. Sure enough, the bullying stopped and apparently he had been doing this to numerous other kids and I was the only one that actually did something about. Surprisingly enough, the kid no longer goes to the school… 🙂
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Just reading this makes my stomach hurt. Just like it did in the days back in school when I got punched in the mouth for smiling (by another girl), picked on for no reason except that I was new, then picked on because I was smarter than the boys in my class and I ruined the curve. There are SOO many examples and through it all my mother said the same thing. I still can not have a problem with someone without thinking “what did I do to cause this?” It makes my heart hurt. 😦 I will not teach this to my daughter.
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Sorry for re-post (posted 1st and spelt my own e-mail incorrectly, doh!)
Really interesting OP. Agree with the message given. These are my thoughts on it.
I think that children gain a lot of knowledge and learned behavior directly from their parents. I also, though, believe that innately people have a sense of right and wrong from birth. This I believe is part of the survival instincts that are still part of our makeup as human beings. In the past when humans were less ‘advanced’ and with no formal educational processes, they still had to live with each other to be more successful at survival. Knowing then, that just because they could dominate a group through violence (for instance or manipulation/deception of others) was possible, there would be a process of thought that led to the conclusion that this is wrong. It would be wrong because of the consequences of their actions. Using violent behavior (or manipulation/deception) to dominate a group (rather than communication and compromise) would result in a temporary dominance within a group that would now despise that person. The possible consequences would be that they would group together and kill them, or simply refuse to co-operate with them in tasks that were essential for survival. The sex of the person did not matter.
History is littered with figures that have attempted to dominate with violence over others and though many have been successful for periods of time, it never lasted and always ended up tragically for many. All due to the actions of one or few. I believe they acted that way because either they could not psychologically acknowledge the possible consequences, or because they didn’t care about the consequences or they wanted those consequences (in other words they were psychologically ill).
In my late Father’s generation, children had consequences to their actions that were enforced by the school system. Corporal punishment still existed for both boys and girls. Yes, there are incidences where that was a power that was abused (then again we have learnt of Catholic priests sexually abusing school boys), but overall corporal punishment served as a deterrent for certain types of behavior. It helped children to consider the consequences of doing something wrong and since most didn’t want to get hit with a cane or slipper it worked very well.
Now, due to increased liberalization in many areas of society we have parents that couldn’t give a flying f’ about their children, as long as they are not being bothered by them. We have schools where teachers (adults) can be hit by children, but NOT vice-versa (no, no, no they would loose their jobs!). Although I like to believe that most children and parents still follow the doctrine of behavior that is better for other people (society) than behavior that is not (anti-social), we have an expanded minority that simply have learnt that there is no consequence to their actions.
In my father’s day if you were a boy (no matter what age) and you had hit a girl, you would have been beaten with a cane or slipper to within one inch of your life. As a boy (that would hopefully one day mature in to a man (unfortunately so many ‘men’ have not actually matured sufficiently to be men – they just got older)) you were taught that hitting, touching inappropriately (ie. without permission), spitting, whatever, towards a girl was wrong and if you did it then you would be punished severely. More so than petty theft or practical jokes on your fellow male pupils. Boy vs boy fights were usually settled in a boxing ring or lengthy detentions.
Some argue that using corporal punishment is a contradiction (violence to stop violent behavior). It doesn’t work on all. But the ones it doesn’t work on as either an experience or a deterrent have deeper issues already and usually that is directly related to what their parents are doing (or not doing).
The sad truth is that their are a growing number of people in society who have very severe psychological problems that are not diagnosed or acknowledged. Often these problems are masked by things like: they are impoverished, they are too affluent, they are addicted to drugs, etc. They then pass on those problems through their behavior and their children to the rest of us who have to suffer because of them. There are too few deterrents in place to at least make them pause to think before they act. And their number is growing all the time.
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So, by the same reasoning, if a boy hits another boy…
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Agreed. 100%
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Wonderful post. I agree that the “foul language” objection is completely beside the point – If we are more upset over one person’s choice of language than we are over bullying against girls (or anyone), then it’s time for a check-up from the neck-up. Objecting to someone’s language who is pointing out oppression is a form of “shushing”. When someone is protesting oppression, the appropriate response is to listen and – hopefully – do something about it. And this is coming from a minister! Keep up the good work and God bless you.
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As a male who can recall at least one instance of engaging in the stereotyped behavior i am a little uncomfortable with this. We can all agree bullying is a bad thing, but one would hope the adult in charge would be able to tell the difference and act accordingly. Beaides, this is a behavior you’re supposed to grow out of nefore puberty. Any girl who isn’t it taught/doesn’t learn that this isn’t it appropriate behavior (and increasingly soas time goes by) is just as dysfunctional as the boy whharasses her.
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Reblogged this on Keenun Barley and commented:
I LOVE THIS and I wanted to share!!! This is the type of thing I think about all the time! Sorry if the language offends anyone. 🙂
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Bravo to this post!
On the other hand, I can’t believe how bitchy some of the people commenting are. “I don’t like that you used foul language.” “I don’t like how you’re dealing with so-and-so.” “I don’t like your profile picture.” “I don’t like your color scheme.” Wah wah wah. Sounds like a bunch of 3 year olds in year complaining over nothing.
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*here*
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You people really need to chill…I’ve never heard so much hate being spewed.
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There needs to be a “fucking awesome” rating for this. I don’t have kids (and don’t plan on having kids) but my neices, nephews, friend’s kids will NEVER hear this from me. I remember getting fed this line when I was a kid and even thinking then it was bullshit.
Great job!
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I love your writing style! and you also made some very valid points!
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Nothing says “i love you” like a good punch in the face. Chris brown’s fans know best.
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Reblogged this on Totally Gamed.
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When I was in grade 1, there was a girl named Melissa who was very aggressive about chasing me around the playground and telling me to marry her. It made me dread recess. One day, she chased me so much I fell and scraped the shit out of my face, and all the teachers around said I should just “agree to marry her”. I just wanted to point out that there are other dynamics that play out, but yeah, my gender is def on the giving side of this kind of sanctioned bullying. But not all the time.
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OK, that is SPOT ON! And it JUST happened, I have twin 7-year-olds, and just visited the school yesterday about boys that chase my daughters on the playground, push them down and threaten to kiss them. The school is taking swift action, but we’re trying to teach them about not getting themselves into that situation, and to keep telling on them, and telling me. Another really nice, smart boy laughed at my daughter because of something she told him, and she felt bad. Guess what we said?? “He probably likes you, but that doesn’t mean you need to take that crap.” My husband even said, “Hard to believe, but when I liked a girl, I was actually mean to her.” I just about fell out of my chair. Why do we do this??? Thanks for your post, transforming.
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wonderful post!
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Actually if a kid is tormenting others that doens’t mean the kid likes someone, it means they’re an a**hole and probably their parents are too.
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Maybe I should write an article about girls in school bossing my boys around and refusing to play with them unless they are the prince in “their” story. And when the boys suggest that they’d like to be the knight instead they are told “no boys allowed” and shunned. Over and over again. Last week my son wasn’t allowed to play b/c he didn’t want to “marry” so and so like he was told to do by the group of girls. I don’t approve of hitting anyone, but bullying is also about control/power – verbal and physical. Those who target others repeatedly with verbal and/or physical power trips are bullies. Should we tell the bratty, clique-ish girls to also stop verbally assaulting the boys – heck yeah. They have feelings too. Let’s teach BOTH girls and boys to respect each other now, as toddlers and pre-schoolers. For the record, I do approve of playing tag, which involves actually tagging someone. It goes both ways people.
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You have the best response on this whole thread…
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This is a great post. The only thing I found a bit worrisome was that, particularly in the comments, people are saying “violence is never acceptable” but then many are saying, sometimes even in the same breath (/comment) that it is a good idea for a little girl to “punch a boy in the face” if she is teased or bullied. Am I the only one who thinks that is a contradiction? Whatever happened to “two wrongs don’t make a right”? How can we teach children it is not ok for someone to hurt them but it is perfectly alright for them to hurt the other person even worse?
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I love this post and think it’s great. I completely agree, if for no other reason, because I’m sick of pursuing a girl only to get dissed in favor of some obnoxious, mean jackass dude. If this change in parenting strategy can theoretically help nice guys score a date down the road, I’m in. Hopefully by the time the new generation of girls gets older, I won’t be single and my son won’t be a jackass.
Congratulations on getting Freshly Pressed! Well deserved!
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First of all, I will never, ever say again “Oh that means he/she likes you.” When you learn better, you do better. Secondly, I am a mother to a son and I have taught him to respect girls. That said, he’s learning how to be a good man partly through trial and error. Once when he was in first grade, he lost a recess for lightly touching a girl on the back. The school was serious about its No Touching policy. He wasn’t a little “asshole.” He just needed to learn to keep his hands to himself.
I’ll admit that your swearing did turn me off initially but I’m happy I came back and read your post.
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I have three sons (6, 2 and 11wks). My boys are my heart. Contrary to some of the comments made, I don’t hate little boys. Too many people have misconstrued my words to mean, if a little boy ever touches a girl, in any way, ever, ever, ever, he is an asshole. Not at all. My own kids get into arguments, they have even hit each other before. The thing is, I don’t make excuses for the behavior. If one of my sons got physical with a girl at school, I wouldn’t just shrug and say, “awww, he probably likes her” and I wouldn’t expect other parents to dismiss it as that for their daughters. Whether or not my son hit a boy or a girl, it would be addressed. I don’t take issue with kids demonstrating immature behavior, I take issue with parents telling children that the behavior should be acceptable, if not flattering. The kid that continually harassed my daughter, that hurt her, that made her cry, day after day was being a little asshole. The adults that dismissed the treatment as elementary school flirting and expected my daughter to accept it were big assholes.
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You know, in theory this is a great piece. The problem is that – as has been stated somewhere above — little boys simply do not have the emotional navigational skills to verbally express themselves at a young age. To call what they do “abusive” is to be angry at dogs for chewing on shoes — it’s in their nature, whether we like it or not. Now, as parents, advisers, educators, etc. it is our job to try our damnedest to get through to little boys that this kind of behavior is not taken in the spirit in which it is intended; that it is perceived as mean and hurtful. And telling little girls that this is abuse and abuse ONLY does neither kid in this scenario good, as it teaches neither about perspective. So while it is should not be tolerated, per se, it can also be seen in the light of young brains developing (at least in a first incident). But you are also asking a chimp to make fire – he might not get it the first time, and thus could use help from those supposedly in charge until he gets it. Further, at least we as a culture agree that hitting and the like are unacceptable, whereas the kind of emotional cruelty that teen and pre-teen girls can dish out rarely seems to be taken seriously by adults, even though it is just as damaging.
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Don’t quit your day job Lady, you don’t write very well. Violence is never ok. However, in the tales you tell, its not about manners, or teaching boys proper behaviour. It is certainly not about “assholes” at the ripe age of 6-10 either. By the way, call my boy an asshole and I’ll shower you with the same respect, yet you are probably too dim to understand most words that have over two syllables in it. Perhaps, there is a deeper issue for some of these children. Its called impulse control which is not yet fully developed in some of the kids, including, the little girls who hit the boys, kick the boys, name call the boys, not to mention the nasty behaviour the girls to do each other. How about we teach people to respect people and then we won’t wonder why women try to sleep with other women’s husbands, and destroy families in the process. When this type of abuse happens to a boy, from a little girl, the boys just have to “suck it up” but the girls get a whole column on how its violence against women. I have three boys, all raised properly. They treat everyone with respect unless they are treated disrespectfully, then they are taught to stand up for themselves. More importantly, they stand up for those who can’t stand up for themselves. Funny how you can call little boys assholes, but, no one can call little girls bitches. I am so annoyed with women like you who think the entire worlds problems are the result of the way men treat women. Teach your child to think for herself and perhaps she won’t grow up to be a low life, f-bomb dropping train wreck like her mother.
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BAHAHAHA! You should look up the definitions of “hypocrite” and “irony”. Can’t. Stop. Laughing.
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Teachers barely know how to creatively teach anymore let alone manage out of control kids. When teachers adopt this rationale, it is their secret way of saying that they really have no power, means nor ability to enact positve change in children I.e. To Actually Teach…whether it be a lesson plan or a life lesson.
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Bob – Oh, how I wish you were joking, as I first thought. Where have you been hiding your head? Do you have any idea how much is already dumped on elementary school teachers, working at below-poverty level wages while still paying for their 4 and 5-year college degrees, paying for school supplies out of their own pockets – and then asked also to take on the parents’ job of teaching basic manners and compliance with authority? And then when they try, the parents don’t back them – half the time when a teacher has to discipline an unruly child, instead of reinforcing with additional discipline to the child when s/he gets home, the parent comes charging into the principal’s office like a grizzly bear, and wants the teacher’s head on a platter.
Creatively teach? Yes, they know how – they would love to have the chance! No power, means nor ability to enact positive change in children? Damned straight! How about you parents give them some backing so they will? And discipline your own damned kids – or if you truly believe another child is at fault, contact his or her parents and have a *civilized* chat with them, not a shouting or blaming match, but a good faith attempt to establish a mutual agreement that there is a problem to solve. Then, maybe then, teachers will have a shot at “actually teaching.”
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Amen!!
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^ This.
Teachers have enough to deal with when it comes to educating children. We are already scrutinised when children aren’t learning at a rate acceptable enough to their parents. With everything else going on in the day if we have to stop and teach children manners as well, something will have to go out of the curriculum. And I bet parents would be in uproar. Sorry, we never taught phonemic/phonological awareness this year as we were told you wanted us to teach your children manners. Seriously, parents need to step up to the plate here. Teachers cannot be solely responsible for raising children to be perfect little humans. We can educate them, but now we have to parent them too? Something has got to give.
I applaud the author!
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People like you are the end of civilization.
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I love this from start to finish. As for the language I sure if you are that offended then washing your ears out should help. Sometimes it takes the “in your face” language to see the problem. But then I think I say Fuck at least 5 times a day.
Maybe those of you how are upset by that should pray that is the worst thing your child encounters in life is a “naughty word” Whatever! I raised my girls the same way i was raised – never throw the first punch but if someone touches you make it the last time they do it and ALWAYS no matter how out numbered stand by your brothers and sisters!
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Wonderful post – I have shared it on Facebook! I don’t have a daughter but was raised just as you suggest. I was anyone’s equal and learned never to accept being treated in anyway but with respect – and never to treat anyone else that way. 2 way street! GO MOM!
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Look, love the message, but it’s hard to take you too seriously when you’re calling your daughter’s fellow ten year old classmates “little assholes.” That’s just ridiculous, I’m sorry. And as crazy as this may sound, a lot of the time it’s true. Is it okay? No, of course not. But is it out of sheer “asshole-ness”? No. Even well into their teen years kids pick on each other when they like each other. When it gets to a certain point it is abuse, but if a girl playfully swats a boy she likes that doesn’t make her a bitch.
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This is so true we are conditioning for children what is and isn’t acceptable in a relationship everyday. Then people wonder why women don’t leave when they’re in an abusive relationship. It’s because we are blindly enforcing the belief that a slap = love.
I have a 3 year old daughter so we haven’t had to experience the whole playground thing yet but when it comes to that I’m not going to hesitate to bring it to the school’s attention. I want to have a meeting with the teacher, principal, and the parents of the other kid to be sure that everyone is on the same page about it.
I don’t play when it comes to my kid!
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your demonstrated aggression buy using the phrase FUCK OFF shows me that you could use some manners and good graces.When expressing an INTELLIGENT OPINION one should not have to go to gutter-speak college.Violence does not solve the problem of people expressing violence.You just proved my opinion in your statement.It is time that we as a collective group ACT accordiningly,to set a good example for the future generations…………..
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[Y]our demonstrated aggression [by] using the phrase [“]FUCK OFF[“] shows me that you could use some manners and good graces.[]When expressing an INTELLIGENT OPINION one should not have to go to gutter-speak college. []Violence does not solve the problem of people expressing violence.[]You just proved my opinion in your statement.[]It is time that we as a collective group ACT accord[ing]ly,[]to set a good example for the future generations[.]
Why yes, I did just nitpick over the many grammatical and spelling errors you made in your post.
Oh, I’m sorry, did I miss the point of your comment? Dear me, I suppose that your poor grammar detracted from the point you were making.
What’s that? Your grammar shouldn’t matter, it’s the intent behind the post that counts?
Well, then I’m sure you have no remaining issues with Queen-of-the-Couch’s choice of language, since by focusing on that you’ve overlooked the intent of the article.
In all seriousness, speaking of good graces, her language and use of hyperbole were stylistic choices and expressions of anger – and rightfully so. Reading this article gave me no reason to think that she would literally be violent or (unreasonably) aggressive toward anyone. Granted, I expect that someone who feeds the line of bullshit in question to her daughter will probably get a blistering earful, but otherwise she seems to be acting in the manner of an attentive and loving parent.
Please set a good example for future generations by having the good grace to check your work before you submit it, dear. 🙂
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OMG….2nd grade flashbacks!!! This kid, Paul (yes I remember his name bc he made me sooooo angry!!) would kick the back of my chair all day…every day…. the teacher just brushed it off. I undured this BS all year….it may not sound like much, but try concentrating when someone is kicking the back of your chair. I’m 41 now, and I STILL remember that vividly!! Damn him! LOL
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Thank you, thank you, thank you, for this post. Gender stereotypical begins in the womb, and it needs to stop. What we learn in the elementary years sets us up for life, and the fact that EDUCATORS are spouting this crap shows that administrators need to be taught a lesson in child psychology. We’re not only undermining our girls here, we’re setting our boys up for failure too. If you hurt a living thing, there needs to be consequences. If a child was beating up a dog, I wouldn’t sit there and think, ‘My, he must really love that dog.’ Why is it okay to beat on another human. Let alone, a female?
Despite the crude language, I think it gets the post across beautifully.
Anger isn’t polite.
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WORD.
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Reblogged this on Ms Opinionated and commented:
Great post, and what an excellent point. Every mother of daughters should read this.
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Timely piece! Only 2 weeks ago I was punched full in the face on a stair well which caused me to go backwards down 8 concrete steps into a wall…which was very firm about the whole thing…by the time I was on my feet the assailant was out the door and had disappeared into the night…I called in 11 night vision equipped helicopters but could not find him…then, later, while smoking weed given me by a 300 lb diamond festooned man in the Boston Common (who I told of my “incident”) when, after allowing enough time to pass to consider myself “stoned”…I realized!!! Like a beacon that finally swung around…”love!!!” It was a love tap and I forgot to thank him!!! I won’t bore you with any of the deeper meanings of the punch from nowhere but it truly did give me pause to reflect and realized there was a long moment during which I could have acted in a way that would not have resulted in being punched but I did not do that “on principle”…so it’s kind of a karma shiner I guess…but as for the school yard…I never bullied girls cause they scared me way too much…I knew their power from day one…plus, I already had a sister who secretly dressed me as a girl while my brothers were trying to dress me openly as a Marine…at age 4 I had a dress blue Marine outfit, two Navy outfits, one Army outfit and I think I may have been in some Foreign Legion…not sure…so I got bullied by both sides although male bullies didn’t fare too well with me usually…with one exception T Frontarada of Haverhill who beat me mercilessly twice in front of my friends even though T was a golden gloves caliber (think he won) fighter (he was 2 years older, much bigger and much more experienced…all I could do was cover up) girls though…how do you cover up from a beating of the heart? You catch my drift? Seriously though…I am outraged by the kinds of abuses that pass under our noses every single day that are culturally sanctoned by default of courtesy and basic compassion for others and …;total lack of emapathy…playground bullying, whether physical, psychological or emotional is deeply destructive to the victims and radically changes the courses of their lives in many instances…almost all…children must see that their supervisors in the playground or anywhere are tuned in to these secret interactions and skillfully intervene every time…verbally…explaining why what just happened is wrong…look at me…babbling on…I hope I don’t get punched today…I feel now that if I do….love probably had nothing to do with it…..
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I love every. single. word of this. I want to make a blog comment gallery and hang this whole thing up in a pretty frame(expensive looking but not really expensive because I am broke and I don’t make any money off this blog–which I am kicking myself for now but before yesterday it was just my little blog that my friends read but I digress). Remember: Don’t mistake love for violence! Wait, what?
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This wonderful little story from cluborlov.blogspot.com came to mind:
http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2010/03/talk-to-her.html
A quote: “Little girl Alice went to first grade—a skinny blue-eyed girl with ribbons in her hair. Her daddy was worried that she would be bullied. He would have liked to give her a weapon to use against the boys—a two-handed sword or a bazooka—but these aren’t allowed in school because the teachers are cowards. And so daddy sent his daughter to Karate lessons, from age three.”
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Every parent of children should read this and every person in charge of other people should read this. The same applies not just to little girls but to all people told to write things off as OK, when they are not.
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Yeah, every parent should read this post and seriously take into consideration the violent, irrational, foul-mouthed, and narrow minded advice of a parent who has no knowledge of child development and not follow in her foot steps.
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Have children do you..so your speaking from a parents prospective of keeping his daughters or sons safe and educated on what is acceptable behaviour and what is not..children will mimick in the playground what they learn from home..same sex parents have the most impact on children eg. children who watch his or her parent beat and verbally abuse another parent on a daily basis will interpret that to be acceptable behaviour, therefore utilizing this to gain advantage during open play time. What infuriates me the most is people who have all the registered educated proof on paper and no common sense. Until you are a parent of a daughter or a son your comment has no prospective of experience which means it can only come from an over educated ignorant point of view.
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Hands down…best blog post I’ve ever read. L
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Haven’t the time to read all the >900 responses, but as a man i heartily endorse your improved emotional/sociological education for your daughter. My daughter was taught that she did not have to take any physical violence from anyone, and being a boy didn’t explain it and being a girl didn’t excuse it, for the aggressor or the attacked person.
As Quakers, we couldn’t teach her what my [non-Quaker]family tried to teach me when i was bullied: you’re a boy so it’s OK; you just have to learn to fight/ hit first/ take it without crying/ expect to be called sissy. We tried to amend when a teacher tried to teach the ole “that means he likes you” gambit. We said, “a lot of people don’t teach boys how to understand other people or how to deal with their feelings. Maybe it does mean that a boy likes you, but it’s still wrong. I don’t care what the teacher tried to say, we don’t excuse doing the wrong thing even for a good reason. It’s too bad that boy’s parents aren’t teaching him how to be good.” Then there would be the meeting with the teacher… I might also try to convince the principal to set up an anti-violence, anti-bullying, emotional literacy, and peer mediation program… usually to no avail tho’ our school board had ordered it!
As a kindergarten child i was unimpressed with the jingle that little girls are made of ‘everything nice’ and that boys were ‘snips and snails and puppydog tails.’ I was less impressed when told that because i was a boy i had to put up with violence toward me, that my hurts didn’t matter, and that i deserved to be treated like a puppydog tail – just higher than a poopy anus. Not a positive message for a kid who was being violently abused at home as it was.
Sexism cuts both ways, folks, and you can’t expect to get sensitive new age men out of the machismo, homophobia, & misogyny of the current culture. In my experience mothers are just as guilty of teaching this crap as fathers are and girlfriends reward it whether the guy hits’em or not. STOP! just STOP!
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I couldn’t agree more! I know all too well what it’s like getting verbally abused and it is unacceptable. I took it for a while but I gained the strength to know it was wrong and I knew that that particular person had no care or respect for me whatsoever so I cut ties. I will NEVER let anyone think it’s OK to treat me like that again. I am so sorry your daughter has gone through it.
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This same thing happens to my son, who is bitten, punched and scratched by girls. I have told him to not do any of that back and I think girls should leave their hands to themselves as well. Hitting or any of this is not cool in any way or any sex. I also have a daughter and when she is old enough she will be told not to take that crap from any person and to tell someone right away, she will be told not to hit boys either unless in self defense. I won’t have my kids being assaulted for anything no matter what it is.
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This article is a load of rubbish. There is a difference between kids being kids and adults. I doubt there is a link between women in an abusive relationship and the playground. No adult women in her mind thinks that violence by a man means love whether or not they were teased by boys in their childhood.
This article should not be passed around as it’s written by a dumb crazy person.
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“Teased”? Nice euphemism, Jas. Yes, kids sometimes hit and hurt each other. But you know what? That’s bad, end of story. The worst thing that adults can do about it is tell them that inflicting pain or humiliation is an acceptable way to relate to someone. With boys hurting girls, especially, the message is that boys should be allowed to do this, and that girls should suck it up. And yes, that plants the seeds for abuse later in life, for two reasons: (1) it tells boys that not only is it okay to hurt girls, but that you SHOULD do it in order to be a proper boy; and (2) it tells girls that a man’s brutality towards a woman is a manifestation of affection.
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Just because you doubt something, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Sorry to break it to you but things that happen to children in early childhood can indeed have a negative impact on their adult lives.
Also, if you’ve never been in a relationship in which you’ve been abused and stayed anyway, you really can’t comment on what a person, man or woman, may or may not believe about why she’s abused.
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I really thought there’d be a mention of Chris Brown and all those girls that tweet “I’d let him punch me in the face” in this article for sure, but I guess I was wrong!
Still, good point about the bullying and eventual gateway to battered wife syndrome!
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I wrote this before the Grammy’s, however, the link to those screen shots was in one of the first round of comments.
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Reblogged this on iduniontv.
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I disagree with you.Should we think more when we were little girl,what we want when someone pulled us or pulled our hair.Only comfort words from parents is enough.
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So the idea is don’t be violent or I will come be violent to you? So violence is bad, but hypocrisy is great? What should we do about little girls that chase boys that they like? Or that kick boys in the crotch cause they heard it hurts boys. Grow up, next time you try and make a argument try and not shoot it down in your own actions.
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Look up the definition of “hyperbole”, mmmkay.
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Right on!!!! The first time a boy pushed me down on the play ground, my Dad taught me how to fight, and the second time the little asshole tried it, I cleaned his clock, all the while my Dad was yelling “Go get him Baby!! “
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you raise some good points,off to have a look around your site.
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Amen. I think the “he likes you” line is just something adults say in order to define the problem as harmless so they don’t have to bother dealing with it.
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@Vladimir Resputtin
How about we teach boys (even little little LITTLE boys) how to show someone he likes them, and not to hit, tease, push ANYONE? Are you saying boys will be boys so teach your daughters how to defend against them?
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I understand your concerns I really do.But how has society survived this long when every scenario such as this has been happening and we have all survived it while growing up.Bullying and such childhood shananigans do have a purpose,It shows were all flawed as children and Its not easy.These type of scenarios will make you stronger,Its never easy growing up and to be honest It shouldn’t be.
We can’t police every situation on every playground,We can’t make a law for everything or start a group to battle every childhood mishap.There will always be some sort of racism cause its a right to dislike someone for the color of their skin,It doesn’t make it morally or ethically acceptable as long as peope don’t verbally or physically act on they’re racist views.I am not a racist cause I was raised not to be.
When some kid beat me up I was told to defend yourself,I’m only 56 years old but I can attest It did teach me about honor as I did try defend myself and win or lose I develpoed a sense of pride.
I believe there was a need to be politically correct when It all started.And as usual It went from a need to an investment,People have taken advantage of It,Race’s and genders have taken advantage of it.And now Its completely out of control.The only one’s who are benefitting from It is the lawyers.
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Children hit each other all the time. Its not OK, but I don’t think my child is “a little arsehole” if he hits. It means he needs disciplining yes. But if anyone calls my son an arsehole, they better watch out.
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so your response to minor violence is violence? are you really solving a problem or perpetuating one? And what about the example you are setting for your daughter? Is it OK for her to hurt people like you even though your intentions are far worse than the schoolyard boy?
point a finger at someone and you point 3 more at yourself.
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Do you really think that I went around hitting people are do you think maybe, just maybe, I was being hyperbolic to illustrate a point? Seriously.
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Reblogged this on chunter's factor analysis and commented:
The point is, you say, “A boy hits a girl because he likes her,” in earshot of the boy, so that he gets disgusted by what he hears and never hits girls again.
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HELL YES!
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What you’ve said is so true yet it’s interesting to know how people don’t seem to fathom this simple logic. (:
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If a boy hit me, teased me, or picked on me in School this was NEVER said to me. At least, not by my mother. My sister had said it to be snide. It’s not right and you really don’t have to wonder why that girl is staying with her abusive boyfriend when we let our children be “taught” by this kind of nonsense.
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Spot on!
I was bullied as a kid, by boys as much as 6 years older than me, and teachers and parents dismissed the abuse as “crushes” and “playfulness.” As a kid, in a world full of adults with their heads up their ass, I was utterly helpless as the abuse went on and on, escalating every year. I would have LOVED for someone to step in and call bullshit. Just one person to say “No! It isn’t cute! Someone is being hurt and it is wrong!”
And the foul language would have been a welcome catharsis.
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My step-father told me exactly that and told me to ignore him. My momma taught me the proper way to tuck my fingers into a fist and how to put my whole body into a proper punch and to knock that certain boy on his ass the next time he did it on the playground…and then I told him I liked him too..The rest of the herd of hairless nut-sacks did not bother me ever again after I knocked the block off the head of the herd. And while we were not exactly friends they were at least more respectful once I started teaching all my friends how to throw those same punches. No more yanked hair, bruised shins, or black eyes for any of us gals; and when the school started teaching us soccer..well just let me say they started being nicer after what they saw what we could do as a team with a soccer ball.
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Sorry, I am not male, I am female and I believe that if you want people to take your post seriously, then it needs to be respectful all the way around and that includes the removal of the cursing and swearing because cursing and swearing are a form of disrespect themselves and they make you look like a hypocrite. It’s not okay for these boys to verbally abuse your daughter but it’s acceptable for you to abuse any readers that happen upon this post with abusive language.
I came across your article and read it because a friend posted/shared it on my wall, but due to the verbal abuse by the writer of the blog, it will be hidden from my wall and not shared.
I agree with the idea that no person, regardless of gender should be treated this way, but I won’t abuse my friends with your verbal abuse because I respect them.
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You are so super fabulous!! Thank you so much for writing this!!! No, I’m not going to slap you, but I would love to give you a hug 😉
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I have to thank you for opening my eyes to such an obvious yet totally ignored truth. TOO MANY PEOPLE DO THAT. I’ve even said that a couple times to my stepdaughter and shrugged the incident off my shoulders like nothing was wrong. The truth of the matter is that the child doing the disrespecting must learn the consequences of such actions. I’ve told my baby girl to kick a bully right in the shin if they’re bothering her and that I’ll excuse her from trouble if the teacher reprimands her.
I won’t utter those words ever again.
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Wow– that never occurred to me. Playground behavior like this really DOES have something wrong with it. Thank you for opening my eyes and now hopefully those of my friends!
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Cry me a river
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I vaguely recall this boy in Pre-School… He always lifted up the back of my dress…. It happened again in High School, you would think I had learned my lesson back then, it appears not. Love this entry.
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This is absolutely fucking true. I plan to teach my kids the same ways when it comes to respecting people. I’ve been bullied and I’ve been through that shit and no one, except my older brother ever stood up for me. This hits pretty close to home because I have experienced it. I despise how teachers these days won’t do shit to stop the bullying, yet they get all defensive and start calling names when incidents like Columbine happen. One of my younger brothers has been punished for lashing out when people have bullied him and yet the principle, the damn principle thought that the girl who had bullied him was being funny. Bullying isn’t funny, it’s atrocious and disgusting behavior and schools these days need to put a stop to it.
I just had to comment because of how close to home it hits. Thanks for sharing.
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In fully reading this I have more rage running through my veins than ever. Let’s look at it how it is. Kids 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 years old do not know how to show their sexuality and we as parents do not want to sit down and explain sexuality to our children. Kids do not understand sex at that age. But at the same time their little bodies are raging along as they grow, grow, grow. Their hormones are raging like a river at full flood state. Why don’t you as a parent go back to that age and remember what was happening. Do you remember all the changes that you had going on with your body? At 35 years old, I do not. Do you remember all of your friends urging you on to pick on that other person on the play ground? That is what happens. Yes it is not a good thing but how would you as parent’s like to stop it. Do you want to sit down with you 6 year old and explain that the hormones going through their bodies make them want to have sex with the opposite sex? I already have a hard enough time trying to explain to my 6 year old that the erection he is getting is normal and what that erection is for. Then there is the fact that their little minds may not grasp what you are trying to explain. I want you to remember at what age you understood what your body was doing. I for one did not truly understand until my early twenties once I had lived life and had a chance to grow. So let them be kids, and if you as a parent want to let your little one know that the boy pulling her hair wants to have sex to make another human being then go ahead. But I do not think that my son would understand what that means at the ripe old age of 6, so he will be pulling hair and pushing others around.
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Maybe it’s just because I’m younger than you, early twenties, but I do in fact remember the exact age when I understood what my body was trying to do. Sixth grade, when my parents handed me a book they’d gotten from the library explaining sexual reproduction. It wasn’t really an ordeal. Read the book, opened up for some Q & A, and it was done and over with. That shit wasn’t exactly complicated. Not exactly one of the Sphynx’s riddles or anything.
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so you are basically saying your son wants sex at 6 years old?? bullshit idiot, he gets erections for no reasons at all dude its just a reaction to nothing or he has to pee, big deal to simply tell a kid that hitting another one is wrong does not entail a sex ed class dude, it involves a caring parent to take on the responsibility of showing them right from wrong, not everything is about sex, it’s about simple respect for others, I don’t care what others think of me, as long as they keep their hands to them selves and I am 53 years of age and I damn well remember what I felt like at 5 and 6 years old and in school and how I was just scared of everything and being away from my parents and I never laid a hand on another kid because I knew it was wrong and I knew if someone hit me or hurt me it was WRONG no matter what the lame excuse was, why? because I was taught that way.
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This is the best thing I’ve read all week!
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yeah when my daughter was 5 and in kindergarten there was a lil bastard that kept kicking her in the crotch and pulling hair to the point she had a couple of bald spots and he would shove her down on the ground and jump on her back, I tried unsuccessfully to talk to her teacher who had the lame excuse that he was learning disabled and didn’t understand a few things and that she needed to be tolerant to a certain point, I said ok if it happens again and my daughter comes home with one more bruise, the gloves are off. Once again she came home and had her vaginal area so bruised and swollen I had to take her to the doctor and I was asked if she had been molested and I said nope the teacher lets a lil boy at school kick her all day in the crotch and she thinks I should be more tolerant…he said no mam this is child abuse so therefore he pressed charges and both the teacher and the child got removed for about two weeks. Upon his return the lil bastard kicked her again and had her bleeding so I told her if he even looks at you weird, put his head through a brick wall! She did just that the following day after he once again shoved her and made her fall on the gravel and scratched up her face and busted her lip, she got up and started screaming and she grabbed him and slammed his head into the side of the brick building until he fell to the ground and didn’t move again, I got the call and was told MY kid was too violent and that she should not have done that. and that she was to be expelled from school…I dropped her pants in front of everyone and said ok if that was violent…what the fuck do you call this lil treasure she got from HIM??? I said look at the bald spots on her head and her busted face, but let me guess he is a retard so he can get by with that shit, right? In the end I pressed charges against the entire school board for abuse and neglect and made sure that bitch lost her job and that the parents were held responsible for their childs actions. I stood up in court and said this is exactly why there are so many spousal abuse cases these days, because lil son of bitches like that started out “liking” a girl in grade school and was never shown the proper way to show affection or feelings.
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Reblogged this on I was just thinking……. and commented:
I like her work.
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Anissa, Ed, Kingofthecouch and anyone else who has an issue with the blogger’s language:
Here’s how it works. This blog is like a house. This blog is her house. You, Anissa, Ed and Kingofthecouch are visitors in her house. You will respect the way she runs things in her house. If you don’t like the way she runs things in her house, you can always go stand outside on the curb and never come back inside. You can also go back to your house and do things the way you want to because, well, it’s your house.
When you’re in your house, you can set the rules and the blogger won’t be allowed to swear and you will be very happy. See how easy that is?
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Good analogy! It’s amazing how difficult a concept this is for people to grasp. Her blog, her rules, ’nuff said. *shrug*
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I love your message, and personally I think it has just the right amount of foul language. And to hell with any fuckers who think otherwise. Having done a stint as a counselor in a battered women’s shelter, I can attest that that crappy old message “he hits you because he likes you” is part of what turns little girls into women who think they deserve to be beaten and abused by men who profess to love them. That’s exactly the kind of fuckery men have been propagating for centuries, and it only serves to perpetuate that “boys will be boys” mentality that wreaks such havoc on the psyches of young women. You are well-advised to protect your daughter from such horseshit.
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Amen to this! Very well said, f-words and all! ;o)
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A-FUCKN-MEN!
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Come on…. there is no need to to be so offensive abt kids hitting each other. Your daughter is going to lose precious childhood if you be so guarding. I dont think that there exists any brother sister duo who have not fought as kids. Not a day went by in my life when my brother and I didnt fight each other. But with age, we have grown very fond of each other. Now, we cherish those memories. Kids are supposed to fight. Even if you teach your daughter about sex and how she should beat boys who beat her back, she is going to come back wih bruises. It is only very natural for kids that age to tease and fight. if you stop those things, your daughter is losing her precious childhood. While it is wise to be aware of abuse, there is no need to be over protective.
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I believe a lot of the naysayers actually GET what you’re saying here. They’re just making you defend your blog post – and you’re walking right into it. They know you were just making a point that abuse is not an acceptable way to express affection. They also know you didn’t literally mean you would slap someone in the face and say “I love you.” And they also know that YOU know that answering abuse with abuse is not acceptable.
I’ve been a blogger since 1998. In all those years, I’ve learned a lot about online behavior. Trust me, you have a lot more POKING going on here than genuine conversation.
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I adore that last sentence!!
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coming to think of it you are right
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That was a beautiful post.
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This is probably the best thing I’ve read on WordPress since I joined. Kudos.
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Wow, as far as the profanity is concerned,it is truely not neccessary and if people use it as a communication device then they are not educated enough to get a point across without sounding like a ranting idiot that has not delt with any issues that has happened in thier past. Deal with your issues people! As far as thanking someone for punching you in the face and edorsing vilolent behavior with violent behavior…not winning any respect from me! I know teenagers that can atriculate themselves better than you. Are you going to tell me to fuck off now…wow, I am truly damaged by your words. Grow up people! Can’t believe I took the time to make a comment, rather amusing I guess…
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Well, Mr. fedupwithstuidpeople… since you’re administering unasked for chastisement for profanity, I’ve taken the liberty of pointing out all of the blatant misspellings in your post. They are as follows, copied and pasted and not changed by me:
truely
neccessary
delt
thier
edorsing
vilolent
atriculate
Perhaps when berating someone for using adult language in their own personal blog that you have absolutely no commitment to reading, you should spell check. Even better… LEARN how to spell. Also, use some punctuation. If you expect people to pay attention to your message, at least make yourself understandable. Because, how did you say it? You’re “not winning any respect from me!” I hope the ARTICULATE teenagers you know can spell better and use punctuation more effectively than you.
Last thing… it is indeed amusing that you took the time to comment so poorly on a post that you obviously missed the point of, as well as missing the sarcasm which was pretty up in your face. Ta-ta!
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That is a fantastic post! I don’t think many people look at it that way, I know I didn’t until reading this post. I had this happen just once when I was in school. A boy in my class “liked me” because he was tipping my chair over backwards and saying mean things, so I punched him in the face one day after he said something mean. My mom was mad at me for getting sent home until she found out why. That kid never picked on me again, and I never had that problem through the rest of school because word travels fast 😉
Kudos on the great post!
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If it’s okay, I’m going to reblog (not repost) this…. this is the most brilliant things I’ve seen in a very, very long time!!! Thank you for posting it!!
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OMG, girl!! Make some fucking noise!! That’s some real shit you talkin’ and I got mad respect for you!! Damn, now you made me curse! 🙂
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everyone must read this..nice one
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I so like how you ended this post. There’s a lot of POSITIVE attitude in it!
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Anyone here old enough to remember Krazy Kat and Ignatz Mouse? This blog piece made me think of them.
http://cerebralboinkfest.blogspot.com/2011/07/crazy-cat-creates-krazy-kat.html
This strip was started over 100 years ago, illustrating how this crap attitude has been going on a loooong time.
When I was little, I was totally bewildered, and more than a little annoyed, that the stupid cat was interpreting a brick to the head from the asshole mouse as “love.” Didn’t get it then, don’t get it now.
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so cute…
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I love this and I think that the language is fine. Sometimes you need to say fuck to get the point across. I’m sharing!
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Reblogged this on throughhermind 2012.
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Like others who have replied before, I totally get your point and thoroughly agree with it. I do believe it could have been presented in a more ‘family friendly’ fashion. That being said….I will repost your opinion as I think more parents need to educate their boys and girls on respecting not only one’s ‘personal space’ but their self respect as well. I can see where the passion and constant annoyance could have driven you to use the profanity but I have learned that when posting something as important as this message is, keeping it clean will earn YOU more respect. I do Thank you for sharing this, it needed to be addressed. 😀
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A+ Article
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Love the post. 🙂
I have wondered though: What does it mean for a child to “like” another one? I mean, at that age it is assumed that sexual attraction is rather premature (although, with the hormones in our food these days, who knows). I definitely remember having a “boyfriend” when I was in first grade. It meant I sat beside him on the reading carpet. It meant I offered him part of my lunch and ate part of his. It meant he shared his crayons with me. Essentially, it meant he was my friend.
I mean, in addition to the idea that violence is an appropriate term of endearment, aren’t we also imposing on our children an idea that all interactions with the opposite sex are “special”, or sexual, or meant to be flattering?
What are the natural consequences of that, I’m curious what people think?
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What a brilliant point!
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Well, such an idea is heterocentric, for one thing… 🙂
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I agree! Thank you.
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Yes I agree! Totally heterocentric. Many are still raising our children on the assumption that they will be straight. Not only does it go against equality of sexual orientation, but I think I’m more interested in how it affects the relationships between genders, no matter what the orientation! To note the differences in how female children relate to males (and vice versa) as they grow up to be straight or gay would be an extremely interesting study.
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@Megan – I’m a little too tired to fully respond to that idea at the moment, and I’d want to gather my thoughts.. but you should write a blog on it.
(“aren’t we also imposing on our children an idea that all interactions with the opposite sex are “special”, or sexual, or meant to be flattering? “)
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Reblogged this on Miss Edee and commented:
This is such a brilliant piece…. please read it and then pass it along!
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Bharat City – Wonderful blog, i am completely agree with each line of this blog. You give a very nice message in this blog thanks for this and keep posting such kind of blogs.!!
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I feel like the message would be a lot better if the language wasn’t so foul. There is a time and a place for such. and if the rest of you have merely an argument of “fuck off” when someone corrects you, then you are nothing more than bullies yourselves. Your vocabulary must be limited.
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I’m not so sure the purpose of this blog is so that readers can “correct” other adults. Such unsolicited criticism might, in itself, constitute a form of bullying.
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It’s charming that you’ve decided her personal blog on February twelfth is neither the time nor the place for such language. Might I ask, what blog at what time would be the appropriate venue for her to take her opinions if she wishes to engage in profanities?
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@ morganarose,
You said:
“…I feel like the message would be a lot better if the language wasn’t so foul…”
I’m not questioning that you do feel this way – I’m sure you do – but are you able to rationalise this ‘feeling’ and express it more clearly in language?
For instance did the swearing create a practical problem in terms of meaning? (did you find it difficult to understand what the author was writing about?)
Or, were your ‘feelings’ strictly in the realms of an *emotional reaction* on your part, triggered by encountering certain words and phrases?
“…There is a time and a place for such [language]…”
What does that actually mean in practical terms?
Specifically, have you considered what it means with respect to the internet which knows neither time nor space?
And what does it mean with respect to a blog such as this, which is completely free of charge and a voluntary affair (ie one is not forced to read it)?
“… and if the rest of you have merely an argument of “fuck off” when someone corrects you, then you are nothing more than bullies yourselves…”
‘Correction’ assumes authority, and is quite distinct from lively discussion and debate. It implies trying to impose your own opinions and preferences on others and have them conform to you. Bearing that in mind “fuck off” seems not only an inevitable response, but succinct, witty and appropriate one too (ie a good use of language).
“…. Your vocabulary must be limited….”
This this assumption is completely groundless. Swearing does not automatically indicate lack of vocabulary, just as not swearing does not automatically indicate a large vocabulary.
Also, remember that YOU were the one complaining that the language was not limited enough! You specifically stated your preference for a limitation to be placed on language when you said, “…There is a time and a place for such…”
Using music (another language) as an analogy, what you seem to be saying is “Please stop using dissonant chords and odd time signatures, doing so displays a lack of music vocabulary”
There was a time when certain ‘foul’ note intervals were actually banned by law. Where would we be musically if such limitations were still being enforced today? (answer: throw away your all your classical, jazz, blues, pop etc….)
Banging a piano randomly does produce lots of dissonant chords and odd time signatures….. but then again, so does playing a piece by Stravinsky.
If one is unable to tell the difference between the two, and as a result unable to make sense of one’s own reactions to what you are hearing (or reading), then perhaps it is you who need to take a language course … and not everybody else.
I notice your blog is completely empty. That does (rather ironically) speak volumes!
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Abandon, I love this. So much careful thought put into a response to a post with almost no thought involved. I’m willing to bet my next unemployment check that m.rose won’t be replying to this.
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@ abandonculture I did not pick the post apart, and the message is still clear, but it is delivered unprofessionally. I never stated that it should be removed, nor that freedom of speech is not available, simply that my opinion, is that I did not enjoy the format of which it was written. This is a comment box. It is where comments on the post is placed, not a place to bicker back and forth about how I stated my comment.
@ Kathryn Hildebrandt, you would be wrong. I have nothing to run from, and no reason to return a comment. Bless your heart.
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I like this article because it has ignited a discussion about this. I do agree that I would rather not have my son punching as a response to someone else punching him. It is incredibly difficult as parent to change the dynamics in a school system. Or for that matter in larger society. So we have to decide, should we teach a more peaceful passive approach that may work, but could still leave a reputation that of “sissy” or “weak” and more verbal abuse. Or an aggressive approach that may create a strange “respect” between the bully and victim. Either way it kinda really sucks.
We cannot micro-manage our kids, as we all have to work day jobs. So what do we do? I told my five year old, that no one is allowed to disrespect him, not any grown ups either. Tell your teacher if someone has hit you. I said never use hitting as a first resort. Well my son did told the teacher when he was hit, and they kept that boy out for one recess as punishment.
The boy kept teasing my son everyday. Taking his ball. Saying “you suck”. He told his teacher, and yard duty, but they brushed it off. (I didn’t know abut this) Then the boy had the nerve to hit my son again.
Well, my son hit him back. Dead in the face so hard he fell down. My son was raised in a boxing studio, so his aim is unusually good for a five year old. The teacher would see this of course.
At that point, I was called in, and told that my son was at risk of being expelled for violent behavior… I guess because his punch was stronger?
I talked with principle, I asked:
When was the last time an Anti-Bullying course was taught here?
What are procedures when a student reports verbal or physical abuse?
How much training has your entire staff, including yard monitor staff received regarding bullying/abusive behavior?
Why aren’t parents alerted every time an incident occurs, my son says he reported problems so many times before this.
Yes they scrambled for answers. Suddenly my son was not at risk of being expelled. Also, the other child’s parents were brought in for a conference too.
Never again did the boy test my son.
Now the school announces often over the loud speaker that name calling and rude behavior will not be tolerated and is never okay, that we all need to treat each other with respect and kindness.
After my son punched that boy in the face, he became a lamb. It makes it even harder to determine what the right course of action is…did the punch in the face stop the behavior, or was it that I demanded a stronger approach to handling bullying school wide, or was it that the bully’s parents became involved…Who knows?
When I was little I was bullied by a boy two years older than me. i told my mama, and she said, “He likes you mija” . I thought, yeah right. He always ran faster so I could not catch him. One day I did. I let him have it. He never bothered me again.
When my niece was six, she said a boy kept hitting her at school. I jokingly told her to ask him if he was hungry and tell him to come closer… and when he came closer tell him “I’m glad you are hungry…” then punch him in the face and tell him “because I have your knuckle sandwich right here” She and i laughed. I was only 14 when I told her that, I did not think she would do it. She did (not with all the drama). and he stopped bothering her.
Over-all we all want our children to be safe and happy. Feel safe and happy. Just be kids. Be carefree. One of the worst feelings in the whole world is the realization that we have very little control over what happens to them, and some, but not all impact on how they react.
My advice before sending children into any other’s hands is to teach them boundaries. Let them know disrespect is never funny or cool. Let them know that we always have the power to change our lives and meet new people and have good times, so they don’t feel desperate to befriend bullies. Empower them with actually role-playing.. what you are going to say if something happens.
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Okay, Profanity Police, this one’s for you. Riddle me this: You say you respect people who make their points without using foul language. So why is it you only seem to engage with those who do swear and curse in their posts? I have written several thoughtful, on-topic posts with out using profanity. Not one of you has engaged me. So, do you want to discuss the topic, or are you only here to scold?
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AMEN to that! I don’t know what numpty came up with the idea of physical aggression as being ‘cute’ on the playground but they should be shot, twice over. No wonder so many women grow up thinking that a guy who belittles them and pushes them around actually really loves them. It’s insane. I’m certainly teaching my son to be a REAL man, a gentleman, rather than an asshat. There are plenty of those going around already.
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I agree with what is said in this article as a mum and as a daughter myself,and I believe that the practice to accept nothing less than respect is to b followed whole life long by a female specially irrespective of her age, as my mum taught me the same and I m teaching my kids the same though they both r boys but for themselves and for others they don’t accept nothing less than Respect.
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Changing over to adulthood this is the behavior that seperates men from grown-boys. But, in childhood it is unfortunately human nature. My son is very agressive and even violent (he’s 3) even though he’s never been shown anything but sweet love. I remember wanting to pick-on girls that I thought were cute as a child. Is this not the “raw” human nature of children? Todays world is all about being as inhuman as possible. To actually change the meaning of the word human. It sounds to me the person who wrote this card is a grown-girl. Not an adult who understands children or human nature.
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“I want my daughter to know that the boy called her ugly or pushed her or pulled her hair didn’t do it because he admires her, it is because he is a little asshole and assholes are an occurrence of society”… Fuckin’ A. RIGHT ON.
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It is interesting how a message, basically about bullying and abuse of young girls, ends up with a bunch of name calling, abuse and bullying in it.
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I meant this whole thread, the comments following the original message.
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“[E]very girl can recall, at least once as a child, coming home and telling their parents […].” Telling whose parents? Who are “they”? “Every girl” would be a “she,” not a “they.” Forced gender-neutral writing is jarring enough when you resort to the “singular they” so as not to worry about insulting people, but when it’s not even gender-neutral anymore, what’s the point?
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Public school, being forced on children, is basically a 12-year extended exercise in Prisoner’s Dilemmas. It’s no wonder bullying is as common as it is.
So many people ranting and complaining about the meat industry, the military-INDUSTRIAL complex, and other industries, but we think it’s OK to pack children (quite often against their will) into large, centralized, panopticoid, INDUSTRIAL buildings to be “educated” and “learn how to socialize”.
These are HUMAN CHILDREN, not cattle. The education industry was built on the other models of the industrial revolution (usually centralized around a prime-mover, usually steam).
Check out the alternatives for a more humane way of developing as humans
As a success story of homeschooling/unschooling, I find it hysterically laughable that people raise the question of “but how will children learn to socialize?!?”
*facepalm*
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people what then hell!! you think that it is allways the girl getting nagged at school?
when i was at school the girls would stratch and throw dirt at the boys and they wouldnt get in trouble because the boys pulled hair back. so dont bitch and moan take a chill pill and stop being so argumentitive.
p.s. no need for the swearing and stuff just calm down
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i totally agree ! SLAP ‘EM !
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Reblogged this on ASAR (A Seemingly Agreeable Response).
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I realise most people will say “they are too young for it to mean this, and the old saying is true,” But it’s at that age that it needs to be pulled up! Kids will honestly believe it, and it indeed does become subconsciously embedded. At a young age is when the foundations for morals in their minds are built, and things they learn become a natural part of their thought processes in the future. If such ideas like this are repeated to them, when they get older they won’t even realise that it was a “cute” lie and that it’s totally backwards.
Any adult has a responsibility to make sure any such thinking is not introduced to young children who are looking up to us to guide them through a society they know nothing about. They look up to us, trust us, believe us, and only know what we can teach them.
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Reblogged this on The Lost Highway and commented:
Agree!
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Well, i cannot agree more. Kids nowadays have gone wild. Sure as hell you should tell your daughter. However, when I was in 3rd grade many many moons ago we were playing outside in the school yard and fooling around. I happened to push a girl a little too hard and she stumbled. She called me out back in the class room in front of everyone. The teacher responded “maybe he likes you”….. I sure as hell was teased by my friends for the rest of that year about. Liking a girl? At that age? I was discussed. What happened? I sure never did that again.
All I am saying is that this silly excuse if worded and addressed right can work wonders….
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Sebastian, I don’t think it was cool for you to be taught that lesson, either. You and the girl needed to be taught that sometimes accidents happen when roughhousing, and that you needed to apologize, and she needed to accept your apology. Being teased and ridiculed by peers for the rest of the school year isn’t going to teach a kid about appropriate touch, either. No wonder boys think girls have “cooties,” if touching one of them results in social stigma!
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It really is a brilliant piece but the foul language means I can only repost it under my personal accounts and none of the professional social media accounts I have. There is a time and a place for profanity and overuse of it turns this piece into a rant when it can be something quite profound.
In any case, Queen of the couch, you have brought something up that I never would have considered. Especially since I did hear that as a child and perhaps shaped me into accepting behaviour that should never be tolerated. Thank you for your thoughts and for sharing with the world.
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Amen!
Congrats on being freshly pressed!
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While I agree with you on principle, I must say the reality of what women respond to is somewhat different.
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Excellent, I agree.
By the way, “If you can’t better an argument, correct their grammar.” Seems to be what’s happening in this post.
I see abused women at work regularly. And I have often wondered if they stay with their abusive spouse because somewhere along the line they were made to believe that is is just a way of expressing love.
Here’s hoping that if I am blessed enough to have a daughter, I will never try to explain away bullying.
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Maybe that’s why I feel so unloved in a relationship unless I’m abused in some way. Because this crap was spouted at me every time I was bullied in grammar school(not by my mother my mother loved me and told me if a boy put his hands on me I had every right to kick his ass, the other adults around me, on the other hand…). That and I’m a masochist. But I’m sure this was a huge contribution to my state of mind.
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In fifth grade I told my mother I had a group of boys pestering me & my friends on the playground. My older brother overheard me, and suggested I punch them. So the next day I shared this idea with my friends. When the boys came to bug us, we managed to separate the weakest one from his group, drag him behind a building and punch the crap out of him. I felt a snap on my hand, and when we came back in from recess I saw my ring finger was swollen and I couldn’t bend it. Next day my parents took me for an xray and discovered it was broken.
“What were you doing when you broke your finger?” the doctor asked.
“I punched a kid.”
Everyone laughed. No one believed I would do such a thing. But my brother was very proud of me. And the boys never bothered us again.
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It’s a shame that people get offended by language, but then getting offended at all is silly isn’t it. I love your article. I’ve told many girls, this is sometimes how little boys show they’re interested, but it’s NOT OK! It’s sad how challenged boys are.Explaine this to little girls and give them intelectual and spiritual amunition,along with martial arts training, mabey they’ll show the boys a healthy way of expressing themselves. The play ground is too soon to give up on so much of the male race.
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Nothing original in this comment. Just astonishment that I’ve never seen this. Thank you for helping me realise it before I have kids! Whether I have sons or daughters I will teach them the acceptable way to treat others whether you like them or not. I can’t believe (now that I’m aware of this) how many people think that is an ok excuse. It’s pathetic really. What an awesome thing to bring to light!!!
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I am not going to dignify Vladimir’s post with a response to him directly, but…can someone remove it? I sincerely hope that he does not have daughters (or sisters, or nieces, or…any female friends/relatives) as he is clearly a perpetrator himself of the vitriolic ideology that causes violence against – and murder of – girls and women. Bravo to Queen of the Couch for posting this!
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I think this is awesome! I’ve just graduated high school and I remember this bullying like it was yesterday…it pretty much was lol. All throughout school I was bullied and teased. Some of it was because my parents got a divorced and that was unheard of where I’m from. And the worst part was my mother feed me that line. After all the hard times in grade school (which was a REALLY small school) Jr. High was such a relief only one kid my elementary school was in my homeroom. In Jr. high and high school I stood up for myself more and more ALTHOUGH there were times where both parties were joking around with guy friends that know what NO means its fine when boundaries aren’t crossed, but how can girls AND boys know what those boundaries are unless they are taught them. And the younger the better in my opinion in middle school the guy whose locker was next to me would occasionally touch my bottom or my breasts. I never thought anything of it other than I knew it didn’t feel right. Turns out he has always been like that because he hasn’t known better and his actions are sexual harassment; which that point on it is UNEXCEPTABLE. I wish I knew what it was called and how wrong it was I’ve would’ve reported it and hopefully that would’ve stopped him. And just to bring this point home again there was another guy that I date when I was way younger who would always want to kiss me I was 13 I was NOT ready for that yet. But he would always push me for it and I kept saying no, then we broke up (thankfully). And in high school he got a girlfriend of his pregnant and knowing him I would be willing to bet it was the same scenario of not respecting when a woman says no.
I wanted to thank you for this as you read ^^ this has been a struggle I’ve witnessed my whole school experience and I’m really glad the majority of people here agree with you. And I hope that people talk to their girls AND boys about this. I would like to close with this…
Respect is a two way street you treat me right, I’ll treat you right and if you don’t I’ll just take a left turn off this road and let you figure this map out.
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This is excellent!!
I remember a boy who kept pulling my hair and wouldn’t stop, so right in the middle of class I yelled “JOHN STOP PULLING MY HAIR.” The teacher didn’t say anything, but he finally stopped.
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That line, the “it means he likes you” line, is fed to us by more than just oblivious parents. Take Beauty and the Beast as a clasic example. Here we see the beauty being abused by the Beast until she falls in love with him and their love changes him to be a better person. Whoah, hold on. Two lies in one? Wow.
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Thank you, thank you, thank you. I really don’t understand why everyone is up in arms over your use of “fuck.” Seriously, get over yourselves, that couldn’t be further from the point here. I’m so glad to see that someone finally gets it and won’t stand for it. Right on!
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i plan on telling my daughter to return the favor with a swift kick to the balls. what? she’s just showing him how much she likes him. 😉
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very nice article.
TechSmartLife
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I think this should be what children are taught from now on. Maybe if they were taught how to communicate with WORDS better they wouldn’t have to bop the little girls’ heads like cavemen. I loved this blog, you said everything I’ve ever wanted to say about this. I can’t believe no one else has figured out that this sets girls up for an entire life of low self-esteem and why it’s so hard to empower our young teen girls to speak out when they’re boyfriends are being controlling to the point of beating them up. Great blog!
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Interesting post…the comment stream is fascinating. I suspect the author uses profanity to generate notoriety,;it’s unfortunate many of the comments are about the medium and not the meat of the message.
Little girls need to be taught that physical and mental abuse is not acceptable. Little boys need to be taught that the golden rule should be replaced by the platinum rule: don’t treat them as you’d want to be treated, treat them as they’d want to be treated.
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too good..and being a girl i just loved it and loved the way you explained it..hitting on their faces hard 😉
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EXCELLENT post. Reminds me of an old Violent Acres article called “How to Fight”.
We wonder why our teenage women are putting up with such bullshit from men, getting into domestic abuse, etc, but this is where it starts. When we start to nurture it on the playground. Don’t mind that he’s pushing you–he likes you! What kind of logic is that?
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The issue with “language” boils down to this… it makes small minded people lose their small minds. We are then left “debating” language, instead of the real issue, which is empowering our daughters, and moving away from old school tactics of dealing with children’s behavior.
That being said, I loved the article. It is very true, and as a single mother of an 11 year old girl, have had to struggle with the older generation (mom/dad-which luckily I have in my life to help me) that are still stuck on these old (non intentionally malicious) ways of attempting to build self esteem. It’s kind of like fairy tales, we all know them, we have probably read them to our kids, even have the DVDs, but in reality we are sending out the same message- accept bad behavior, because eventually your prince will come.
Children imitate behavior. My children have never been spanked, and guess what, they have never hit other kids. The bigger message parents need to understand is that when you hit your child, you are sending the child a message that it is OK to hit (anyone). As far as our daughter’s self esteem, let’s build it without the need to bring boys into it. They should feel smart, beautiful, and loved- simply for being who they are- and the only way they will feel this is by not sending out misogynistic messages. (women have always struggled with the mix messages society puts upon us- it’s time we break that cycle)
Again, great article, I will be sharing it with others. (fucks and all)
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Reblogged this on cozycrawler.
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Actually, a lot of the time when a little boy knocks a girl over during recess or calls her stupid or something similar, it generally DOES mean that he genuinely likes her, and thinks that he’ll be made fun of for wanting to kiss a cootie queen. Girls at that age are supposed to be disgusting to little boys, so they’re always very confused when they start to feel attracted to them. That doesn’t mean that the little girl should stand for it and just let it happen, because then the little boy will grow up believing that that’s the right way to treat women. It also doesn’t mean that the six-year-old boy who’s a bit frightened at experiencing his first crush is an a**hole.
However, there is a line. Some of the boys at the local elementary school got in a LOT of trouble because a group of them ganged up on a small girl and started calling her ugly and stupid and pushing her down, and when she tried to get away one of them grabbed onto her and held her in place while the others continued to verbally abuse her. Now, they were all under ten, so they were given a little bit of grace because, while they knew that what they were doing was wrong, they probably didn’t understand why. My little brother was involved, though, and I can guarantee first hand that by the next day he knew EXACTLY why. My sister and my parents and I were NOT happy. Now, while that was a VERY a**hole-ish move (and the girl was very right to resist and tell a teacher rather than put up with it) and it was certainly not just an immature, misguided representation of affection (it was flat-out bullying, plain and simple), my brother is not an a**hole by nature. He’s a bit selfish and whiny at times, but generally he’s very sweet and smart and he treats me and my sister and my mother very well. But if my parents had allowed this behaviour to go on, if my sister and I hadn’t made it very clear that in this instance we were taking the little girl’s side, he would have gone on believing that this was the “cool” thing to do, the socially acceptable way to treat women, and yes, would most likely have grown up into an a**hole.
What I’m saying is that, even though children can often be crueler than adults, it’s because they aren’t yet mature enough to understand WHY cruelty is wrong, mainly because they aren’t yet mature enough to understand that the world revolves around the sun, not themselves. So little boys who bully aren’t a**holes, they’re just kids who haven’t been taught selflessness. It’s when the boy is fully mature enough to understand EXACTLY why the way he’s treating the women in his life is wrong and yet he STILL continues to treat them in this way that he becomes an a**hole. All that to say that, yes, little girls should defend themselves against hostile little boys, both affectionate and cruel, because little boys need to be taught at a young age exactly how not to treat a lady; but no, she should not fly off the handle, and neither should her mother/father, because while the little boys are aware that what they are doing is wrong, they haven’t been told why, or have but aren’t mature enough to grasp the concept of right and wrong. Little boys aren’t a**holes. Parents who allow their little boys to grow up into a**holes ARE.
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I’d should test with you here. Which is not something I normally do! I take pleasure in studying a submit that will make people think. Also, thanks for allowing me to comment!
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Oh I am on this band wagon for sure.. Anybody hurts any of my nieces, or nephews for that matter, and gives them these stupid line, they won’t know what “hit” them when I get through with them…Good one…
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WONDERFUL Post.thanks for share..more wait .. …
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As a 14 year old, in response to the tittle of the post: You didn’t ask cuz.
I seriously an 14! http://www.MaxTindall.com
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fantastic and thought provoking article, thank you.
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I think this blog post is insightful, interesting & should be required reading for all. I have absolutely no problem with your use of profanity
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I am an adult woman and this puts so many things into perspective. I have never liked aggression, not even in the form of horse play. I have gone through the same things as a young girl, even into my teenage years, and as a woman some men have still tried to pass it off as just playing around. But I agree it is abuse and it is unacceptable. It is so good to finally see someone else take it seriously as the problem that it is and not make girls and women feel like it is acceptable and okay to sweep it under the rug!
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I do think we have to consider age as a context for this discussion. If I knew someone was in an abusive relationship I would plead with them to find a way to change it immediately. But when you are speaking of children, the rules are different. We learn how to express ourselves without petty acts of violence as we age. My brother and I used to wrestle each other until we hurt each other (accidentaly) and I think some of that was healthy and actually grew our love for each other and taught us how to love wihtout hurting each other. On the other hand, if I were to approach him from behind and put him in some headlock that would be bizarre. And if we through each other around the house the way we did as kids, there’s a good chance the police would be notified. So my point is this: acts of affection obviously change over our lifespan. A few overly aggressive physical acts at the beginning of our lives should not be treated with the concern and seriousness of a domestic or sexual violence. For instance, my wife was recently telling me about a parent who was attempting to make a sexual assault case out of a small boy taking a button off of a little girl’s shirt because he liked how it looked.
Besides, love hurts! I am far less concerned about my daughter coming home with a physical bruise on her arm from a boy that liked her but didn’t know how to show it than I am the much deeper and harder to heal emotional scars that a boy later in life will give her when he doesn’t feel the same way about her that she feels. Those are the moments I will want to be irate at the boys in her life.
In summation, perhaps it is too blasé to suggest that boys will be boys and that this is appropriate behavior without punishment. But to suggest that you shouldn’t forgive, befriend or love anyone who ever hurts you (be it physically or emotionally), then you will live an incredibly lonely life. I have never been hurt by someone as badly as I have by the ones I love, and yet, forgiveness and understanding comes from that. (Again, that is not suggesting that abuse is EVER to be taken lightly or endured for a moment, but even abuse can be forgiven, once it ceases).
Cheers!
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Right on! If only other mothers (and women in general for that matter) would heed your advice. Swearing, schmearing.
It also drives me nuts to hear people so flippantly say, “the basic rule of thumb is …” when that phrase came from an old English law where men could beat their wives as long as it was with a rod no bigger than his thumb. I’m trying to raise a young son who respects the females he meets the same way he’d respect other boys … if they deserve it!
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I bet the daughter’s name is Tanqueray. White trash doesn’t fall far from the can…. lol
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AWESOME! i totally agree with what you are saying here! there is one thing though…..i have two sons…one 16months and the other 10 yrs, and my ten yr old boy is an awesome, loving, compassionate kid who (being raised by a single mother) has huge respect for women and girls and EVERYONE for that matter, but he has had numbers of incidents of being bullied by girls who “like” him.
girls can be just as bad or WORSE when it comes to bullying and like you were saying above it is not taken seriously (even more so for a boy being bullied by a girl). it seems that society encourages him to “brush it off” and then expects him to “man up”. but it is ALL mistreatment and NONE of it is acceptable. i do my best to reassure him that it is NEVER ok for ANYONE to treat ANYONE badly.
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I am ashamed to admit that I gave my daughter the “he just likes you” line just last week when she told me that a boy was being mean to her. Because that’s what was said to the 9 year-old me when i got beat up by 2 boys after school one day. Thanks to your post, this cycle has been broken in our house – i apologized to my daughter and we had a long talk about respect…not just about boys and girls, but about how we should treat everyone and how they need to treat us. Cheers!
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Thank you for this. I struggled with a bully in elementary school and my parents did nothing about it. They told me to ignore him and expect it to stop. It didn’t until moving up in grades put him on a different bus. It was certainly not affection, but abuse and stemmed from his own abusive family environment, I later found out. I am socially awkward to this day because I was taught to take this kind of emotional beating from even friends. Kids should not have to put up with it, ever.
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Amen! I couldn’t agree more with your message! And for your ‘haters’ (lol): I personally don’t think any of us would seriously react to the “explaining-away-a-bully-by-saying-they-just-like-you” situation by actually slapping someone (as that would obviously bring more violence to the situation as a whole), but it does get the point across to say it like that. I understand how heated a parent can be when witnessing such dismissive behavior from other adults, so it doesn’t surprise me that one can be worked up enough to use foul language. If someone doesn’t like it, they don’t have to read the blog. Period. Nobody needs to put anyone down or tell them how to write their blog. I also read a comment suggesting the writer was biased? I don’t feel they were being biased at all. They even commented on how they would raise their children (sons and daughter) to be respectful of others. Referring to that same comment, I don’t believe age has anything to do with it. 10 years old is certainly old enough to know better than to mistreat someone. It is also old enough to take responsibility for oneself and not have something explained away for them. Being a bully (in any way, shape, or form), at ANY age is not acceptable. If you have a child that hasn’t learned how to properly express their feelings, do you not try to correct it when they act as a bully? Do you not try to teach them how to be respectful? Do you not show them a better way of handling their emotions/feelings? We have a zero tolerance rule in our school system for bullies. Pulling someone’s hair, pushing someone, stealing someone’s pencil… whatever the case may be-it’s all bullying and it’s not accepted. I can’t wait to share the message of this blog with my daughters today. They may be too young to read it (like other people have stated)… but that doesn’t mean I can’t share the message with them.
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I wonder how many of the men here who are making excuses have wives who gulp down Prozac and lie awake at night at 2am telling themselves, “He doesn’t really mean it! He’s not like that when we’re alone! He never treats me like that when he’s sober! I can’t leave him or else I’ll have to raise the kids by myself!”
I wonder how many of the women commenters who are Saddened™ by your language are those wives.
And I wonder how many of the men who are making excuses are the sorts who hate any nice-looking women on sight because the fucking stinking bitch won’t suck his cock, and it’s because he’s too nice.
Feminism’s over and you’ll all equal now, so if you don’t want to suck my cock after I beat the shit out of you, then you’re an uptight bitch.
O-o-o-o-okay …
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Who cares if she used swear words in getting her point across. She is just really passionate about this and this is what came through her mind as she was writing it. I would do the same thing and I will be teaching my daughter, when I have one (hopefully), the same thing. I was bullied to no end in elementary school and the teachers spouted this crap when I came crying to them about how they hurt me, physically and emotionally, so I eventually just stopped telling them for a while. My mom just comforted me and told me the whole sticks and stones line was a bunch of crap and that they are just being mean for no reason. In Grade 7 and 8 when this new jackass came to school, he especially wanted to make my life a living hell and I have no idea why. When he started assaulting me during class I finally snapped and got every a bunch of my teachers, principal and parents involved cause I couldn’t take this crap anymore. They couldn’t spout the “he just likes you” crap to me anymore, I was 13 and knew that was just a load of bull. I made it my mission to avoid him for the rest of elementary school after my snap, didn’t work cause he had a lot of friends that took over for him. The whole experience just made me shut down emotionally for years. I was nervous and shy to everyone except my friends I’ve had since the beginning. Even through high school, I actually wasn’t bullied, but I was afraid to really get to know or talk to new people. Hence coming out of high school I had some acquaintances, but no actual new friends. I barely talk to people I met in high school. (And the funny part is that later in high school, this same asshole actually asked for my help in classes on many occasions cause I was smart and getting awesome marks, he was not doing so great. Do you think I helped him, no fucking way) It took me forever to open up to someone in college and I’m glad I did. I made lots of new friends and eventually got a boyfriend (only when I succumbed to the constant nagging of my roommate convincing me that he actually liked me and didn’t just want to be friends, as we had been for a few months at that point). We’ve been together for 2 1/2 years, but it never would have happened because I was actually still afraid of new relationships. I liked him but I was afraid to start anything. I’m so glad I had the roommate I did cause he is the best thing that ever happened to me.
If I ever hear anyone spout to a young girl that he is picking on you and bullying you “just because he likes you”, they won’t know what hit them. They need to understand that this type of behaviour is not appropriate. They need to tell someone right away, a teacher, anyone in authority, and also learn not to accept this line from other people. They need to learn to have self confidence, not to learn that they can be degraded. I had zip until I got to college. And young boys need to learn that they cannot treat girls like this. There needs to be a level of respect taught both ways.
Ok I’ve had my rant. It felt good to finally spout my story somewhere.
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Wow. You’re a barrel of laughs.
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I think many people in this world could learn a lesson from you. There is nothing more important than self-respect, and making excuses for someone else’s poor behavior is not okay. Your daughter is very lucky to have you. All those girls who tweeted about how they’d let Chris Brown beat them up because they think he’s hot are certainly worse off for not having you as a role model. Great post.
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you have an awesome blog here! would you wish to make some invite posts on my weblog?
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It’s not so much the profanity. It’s the threats of violence that worry me. Especially from someone calling herself Queen of the Couch and holding a Jack Daniels gift pack in her avatar.
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While I can understand the basic thought of this post (don’t let people push you around). There is a big difference between (or there used to be at least) a young boy teasing a girl and a grown man beating the crap out of his wife. Big difference. One is usually done as a joke or flirting, whereas the other is done out of anger and rage. One is done to initiate a type of relationship (friendship, dating whatever) while the other is done to control someone. My husband and I would rough house quite a bit in the beginning stages of our relationship because it lessened the tension when transitioning from the “friend” aspect to the “romantic” aspect of our relationship. Animals do this as well.
I think as a society we are raising our kids to be a overly sensitive and weak. Someone says something that little Jill or Tommy doesn’t like, okay then “Mommy to the rescue!”. People learn how to handle difficult situations and stress from childhood. If the parent is constantly fixing those problems for them then they will never learn how to handle adversity on their own and will end up not being able to take care or defend themselves when it really matters. Another child picking on your child is a good time for you to teach her how to react and handle it, Not to go in guns blazing to correct it. She will not learn how to handle it. (now if she comes home because one of her class mates has threatened to kill her, well, that’s when you should step in and have that child removed… Before I interfere with my kids learning to handle something, I ask myself this “If it were the put into an adult situation, would the cops need to be called or would I need outside help?” If I wouldn’t call the cops/need outside help then I allow my children to lean how to handle the situation. If I would call the cops/need outside help then I would intervene.)
Also, using that much profanity and anger in a post really doesn’t make you look so good. You’re talking about boys/men showing respect and control while you’re showing your lack thereof.
(btw, I have 4 daughters)
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This post was just on my tumblr dash and it hit home for me. Last night, I wrote about what happened to me in this situation in the first grade. For me it wasn’t just boys and pulling hair and calling me names and coming off like he had a “crush” on me. It was other students pushing me to the ground, clawing at me, throwing rocks at me, hitting me with sticks. Sometimes holding me down so he could stomp on me. I told me teacher and she called me a liar, told my parents I was a bitch and that I had problems because I was obviously doing it to myself for attention. It went on and on. In middle school and high school he’d point me out in the hall and laugh about it with his friends. He died horrifically last year and all reports of his death are sealed tight so only family and law enforcement can access them. My friends who were also friends with him said that I didn’t want to know. My mom ran into a couple she knows and found out they’re friends with his parents and told her the same, she didn’t want to know, it was horrific and all reports were sealed tight and how to get an “OK” to see them.
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You said it so true. I completely agree with the fact that bullying or behaving rude is not acceptable and doesnt indicate affection.
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I love this post so much. When I was a kid I was teased by a boy and when I told a teacher she said, “It’s probably because he likes you.” I went home and my mom asked where I got the scrape on my knee and I told her, “It’s because [name] likes me!”
My mom told me otherwise and I’m glad she did.
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OMG! I am soo glad someone brought this up! This shit is being fed to girls, even I remember some of my friends saying this to me when I was young! and people still repeat it!!! This is sooo crazy!!!
http://kitchenmixerreviews.org
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VLADIMIR RESPUTTIN wrote “I dont see why women subject themselves to being punished for the sake of “love”. so when you get punched in the face (not saying its your fault) but its your fault if you let it continue to happen. there needs to be boundaries, thats where the woman comes in and tells her daughter that shit. SO ITS YOUR FAULT YOUR DAUGHTERS THINK THAT!”
First of all, you ARE saying it’s a woman’s fault. That’s exactly what you’re saying. Secondly, you clearly do not have an accurate idea of the many factors that play into domestic violence. It’s not as simple as you make it sound. Victims of domestic violence have often been manipulated, and pushed down enough to believe they deserve nothing better. There are many other reasons woman are often unable to leave abusive partners right away (too many to list here.)You cannot blame a woman for someone’s violence against her. Would you blame your son if he was continually beat up and bullied on the playground? No, you’d (correctly) blame the bully.
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This article is stupid. If you don`t tease girls / women they won’t be attracted to you. How many nice guys has the author fucked?
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This message is SO important to get across! I have never understood, and I’m 60 years old, why anyone would think hurting someone else is considered a form of affection.
Having said that, I do have to agree with some of your other respondees, some of your “colorful” language is offputting. Yes, I’ve read your follow-up blog and while using four-letter words is certainly your prerogative, when writing for the general public on such a serious topic, I might consider toning down the language.
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Well said!!!
I stayed in abusive relationships, because I was confused about what love was. Never thought about all the times my parents had to buy new backpacks because boys “liked” me enough to steal them… And how confusing relationships are when you assume that mistreatment as a child is because they “love” you.
Thanks for writing this!!!
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Waaaaaaah. Waaaaaaah. I overreact to things because i’m a crazed feminist mom. Waaaaaaah.
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My daughter is 2 years old, I am counting the days till I can enroll her in a Judo and and Jujitsu class in her near future , don’t be shocked when your son gets the surprise of his lifetime by disrespecting her because you failed as a parent to teach him manners.
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Brilliant post. Between us, myself snd blogging partner have three girls between us. As a Mumma to a 3 year old girl I’ve already seen these types of comments – little boy bites her – “Oh, haha! He must like her.” Um, no, he was frustrated and she bore the brunt of it. There’s none of the same if they bite another boy, he then gets explained that we “don’t bite our friends.”
As someone who copped my unfair share of bullying at high school I know full well that boys who are mean and abusive can just be plain mean and don’t like me in that way. Despite what the teachers/parents/school principal says. FFS – if a boy likes me I’d want him to show me respect and kindness thank you very much.
So today, we’ll be providing a link to this post in our blog, because we both think it’s an important subject for parents and educators of boys and girls alike…
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Thanks so much!
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I wasn’t going to comment but after some of the posts criticizing this blog post…I have to. I can not begin to list the amount of times I was told as a child, “he does it because he likes you” and I learned to accept that as a reason especially in middle school…
My mother told me, in middle school, that if a boy ever put his hands on me I had every right to hit him back. (If she had told me this sooner…who knows what would have happened) In 6th grade on the first day of school, a boy pushed me by placing his hands directly on my breast. I had not touched him, didn’t even recognize his existence up until that point. I was not a flat chested 6th grader, I was a full blown young woman at this point. He pushed and grabbed my breast and I got the anger and energy to grab his wrists and shove him to the ground. He hit his head on a brick along the floor and began to bleed. The teacher saw the whole thing. She sent him to the nurse’s office and sat me in the class, after the bell rang. Her and I sat there alone and she said something a long the lines of, “Its the first day of school, I don’t want this to follow you throughout your years in middle school. I’m going to let it slide this time, but you can’t keep doing that.” I never explained to her why I did it. She never asked. I’ve assumed all these years that she let me slide because she saw what he did and as a woman who probably understood what I was going through, let me slide. I went home and told my mom. My mom was proud. I was scared.
The young man I had dropped to the ground had his locker underneath mine. The next day, him and his best friend were waiting for me at my locker…I had no choice but to get my books. I walked up and expecting to hear all sorts of verbal abuse, instead got a love letter. The boys were proud of me and made fun of their friend. I was embarassed. He obviously told his friends what happened, I was more embarassed than he was. For the rest of my years at that school, the boys that were friends with that young man, wrote me love letters, and that young man, asked me to be his girlfriend several times. Of which I always turned down…
I wasn’t looking for a fight. I wasn’t looking to be loved but I wasn’t looking to be disrespected. For years I’ve justified verbal abuse, as passionate words rooted in love. I’ve both dealt with sexual, physical and verbal abuse as a child. I learned fairly quickly that sexual and physical abuse are wrong but verbal was a lot more difficult to learn and see. I see it in some of the comments that are being made and the power struggle people had with each other in the words people use to comment…being loved for defending myself, has by far been one of the most unforgettable moments in my life. Being given the permission by my mother to defend myself was all it took…
I respect any mother who teaches their child what sexual, verbal and physical abuse look like and that it is completly unacceptable and we have every right to defend ourselves. I respect men who love us for defending ourselves. I am not a mother, but when I am I will make it a deal to point out that, “it’s because he likes you,” is not an acceptable excuse for any abusive behavior but that it is a possibility that these young men don’t know how to express what they feel for you…and I can say that because of this article and the comments. Thank you for sharing your story with us. While I would have been well off raising a young woman, catching that assumption that “its because he likes you” has really got me analyzing my own childhood experiences…
Maybe he did like me, he showed it later. He may have never truly respected (loved) me had I let him get away with what he initially did. I don’t know why he did what he did, the bottom line is, the reason for behaving that way will never excuse the abusive behavior. I think my mom got it right when she told me that was the only time I had the right to hurt someone. The whole experience definitely taught me a lesson in self-love. I’ll never forget the transformation of this young man going from physically grabbing me to telling me that he cared about me. All it took was defending myself.
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Thank you for underlying this important idea of not tolerating violence among children.
As violence only begets violence, I suggest that using your words -as you’ve done in this article- will be sufficient in explaining to other parents and teachers how you expect children to treat each other. “Punching” or “slapping” someone in the face because you don’t like what they’re saying would be a negative example to any children that may be around and would also undermine your argument. Physical violence is not a productive solution.
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I’d like to see somebody punch you in the face really really hard so you’d shut your ignorant mouth. That’s the problem man…….any idiot with a computer can spread their idiocy. Kids are kids man. Get off your high horse.
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my mother taught me well – at primary school i was bullied by a boy who punched me in the stomach – i gavehim a back eye and he never bothered me again
vlad – young boys yousay? well maybe you need to teach young boys how to express themselves properly instead of thinking that being obnoxious is the way to get attention
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Maybe the people explaining that the language of the piece makes it difficult to share should be given credit for wanting to share it in the first place? Just a thought. (Yes, you can change it if you want to print it out. If, however, you want to Do The Right Thing and cite the author, you either keep it as is or provide the url with the caveat that the language is not considered polite.)
I’m not trawling through all the comments, as there seems to be a lot of jumping down each other’s throats going on. It’s really good, though, to see that so many people – regardless of age or gender identity – are planning to act on the wise observation that disempowering our kids by teaching them to ignore their gut instincts starts early.
This is a fine piece. It articulates a really important point, and I’m glad someone I know knew me well enough to enthusiastically recommend I read it. I’ll be keeping a hawkeye on the kids in my life so I can support them when bullying inevitably starts.
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I think that this post is right on the money, and focusing so pointedly on the author’s use of profanity is sort of missing the boat. Her strong language reads to me as an indication of the strength of her feelings regarding the violence of the ideology that she perceives her daughter to be unwittingly exposed to throughout the course of “normal, polite” society. It also comes through to me as a simple mechanism for garnering attention. Sanitize as needed for distribution, discuss without offering direct quotes, but please consider taking the ultimate point away with you and incorporating it into your own thinking in a way that can be useful in terms of developing awareness of this honestly destructive message that we carelessly offer to our young women.
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With all these comments, I don’t know if you’ll even see mine, but I want to tell you thank you with all my heart. I was told this crap all my life, and have even found myself spewing it to my nieces when they were small. It’s insane the way it is INGRAINED in our psyches. This article really CHANGED me, and I will never spew the “it’s because he likes you” nonsense ever again. Wrong is wrong, unacceptable behavior is unacceptable behavior, regardless of the reason (or excuse) behind it. I thank you, and my three-year-old daughter thanks you.
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Thanks for reading!
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Ok – have you watched the girls on the playground in 4th grade? They tease, they giggle, they whisper – and boys are told – “oh don’t pay any attention – they are just girls. And, they are also told “She must like you!” Of course, this is said NOT to make the boy feel better – but to shame and/or embaras him into NOT complaining about the girl -behavior. Trust me, it happens all the time. Boys AND girls need a better education about how to communicate with the opposite gender. Right now, boys can’t win — if they ignore the girls – they get in trouble – if they let them play kickball and play physically like they do w/boys — therefore, treating them like “equals” – they are told to be gentle. If they go easy on the girls, other boys get upset OR the girls feel “weaker”. C’mon people, we are all in this together – boys get just as confused and hurt and unsure as girls.
And, mama – watch your own anger – your daughter will learn more from you than all the pesky, rude boys on the playground. Thanks.
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wow queen of the couch you are all class. such a good example for your poor daughter. yikes.
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Just read it to my three boys (expletives deleted)!
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I don’t see any reason for arguing over the swearing in this post. If you like the point, but not a few four letter words, substitute suitable words or just delete them and then redistribute. Are people really so lazy they can’t find the time to edit something that has already been well articulated so that it is appropriate to any audience they want to share it with? I also agree with Michael, though he made his point in an extremely disrespectful way, that teasing and bullying happens to boys to and sometimes it’s girls doing it to them. We need to teach or kids to respect each other, regardless of gender. And, since it is so pervasive, can’t we teach or kids to respond to being fed the line “he just likes you” with “then he can have the respect and the guts to tell me so or he doesn’t deserve my respect”?
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Someday someone is going to push your daughter’s head up against a wall and fuck her in the ass.
And she’s going to like it.
Just like you do.
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Amusing and a very valid point. Even more disturbing is that these little boys grow up to be……well using the term loosely….”men”. A 40 year old bully leaves alot to be desired, especially with their mom standing behind them still supporting and encouraging their lack of respect.
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It’s apparent from many of your commentators that they have never been bullied. I found it quite sad they they were so hung up on language and grammar they lost the point of the post.
I am glad to see that many others did get the point and it gave them food for thought.
I was terribly bullied from about 3 grade through Jr High. In the beginning I told my mom and her response was “they like you and don’t know how else to tell you” or “ask them why….”
The last time I told my mom about a bullying incident was when some neighbor boys dropped a dead bird down my shirt when I was walking home from school. I came home in tears. She drove me to their house and had me go up to their door, alone, to tell the parents and ask for an apology. I never trusted her again.
In grade school, she never knew that I changed my route home every couple days, sometimes walking blocks out of the way to avoid certain boys, or give them time to get home first.
In Jr High she never knew I walked the extra distance to take a different bus to school. She Never knew about the boys at the bus stop who carried “pussy scratchers” (coat hanger untwisted with a hook on the end, that they would reach between your legs and pull back real fast). She never understood why I avoided all my peers and never attended school events. She didn’t know about the older girl who use to threaten me if I rode a certain bus. She and the teacher never understood why I had a sudden change of heart in Choir; because I was constantly being pushed off the risers by the other girls. She didn’t know I spent my lunch hours in the library to escape the bullying.
She never knew that my decision to not have children, was in part because I never wanted a child to have to go through what i did in school. It took me many years to understand that my mom did the best she could. I know she didn’t mean to make matters worse, and probably had no idea how to help. It use to scare me to death that I would have a child that was going through the same thing and I had no idea how to help, because I honestly don’t know what could have been done different to help me.
Do I have scars from my childhood? Hell yes!
But I survived.
There are no easy answers.
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Kim, your story makes me so sad. I want to reach back in time and hug the child you were, and somehow make it all right. And that coat hanger-rape thing – horrifying! I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised anymore, but it never ceases to amaze me how much creativity human beings, both adult and juvenile, will put into torturing one another.
Is there any possibility of your going for psychotherapy? It’s pricey, especially if insurance doesn’t cover, and it’s not the be-all, end-all solution to everything, but it sure has done a lot of good for me, just having a rational, non-judgmental person listen, and let me know that certain things that were done to me were NOT okay, NOT normal, and NOT my fault. Anyway, however you choose to attend to the scars from your past, I wish you peace.
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Reblogged this on curvyelviesays and commented:
Just her honest voice….
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Dear Queenofthecouch:
I’m impressed at the sheer number of responses with several of them quite thought out and lengthy. Great job getting people to think and actually take their time to consider what you wrote and take it the next step and respond.
A grateful grandma in Wisconsin
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You. Are fucking awesome. And dead-on.
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I fully agree with this article. To all of you who can’t seem to get past the language, get over it. There is not one word in this article that does not have a defined place in our vocabulary. I find it distasteful when people misspell colour or flavour, but you don’t see me complaining. You know why? Because the alternate spelling(without the u) is has a defined space in our vocabulary. They are words. Tittie Sparkles.
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Awesome response to what I, too, have considered to be bullshit on the part of teachers/adults explaining away being harassed as affection.
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I haven’t looked in on the comments for this in a couple of days…it got kinda ugly at that point and completely outside the entire subject. I was actually surprised to see that comments were still open! Balls of Steel award to you for that! I don’t have anything derogatory to say, which at this point makes me kinda lame, but whatever….I do disagree with your point, and actually wrote a post about it on my own blog, but I’ve been a longtime follower and a difference in opinion on one subject is no reason to stop enjoying your wit and candor. Thank you for uttering all those swears we mumble under our breath on a daily basis! =)
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Thanks for reading. Agree to disagree is a relief after the shit storm that I have been handed after this.
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QotC,
You may be the world’s best mom, and you are certainly my hero. this is a long-overdue message, and you address it head on with clarity and great humor. Well done!
And somehow I don’t feel you need either my disapprobation for profanity or my somehow demeaning “approval” for profanity … I’m pretty sure you couldn’t care less what I or anyone else think about your language. Which also completely fucking rocks!
And funnil
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QotC,
Excellent post! There is absolutely no excuse, ever, for treating someone like shit “as a sign of affection”.
On a related point – I’ve seen so many marriages fail because one partner or the other is a bully. This can be quite direct – ordering your spouse about (“Don’t swear!” – “Pull yourself together!”) – hitting them – throwing things. Or it can be quite subtle – ignoring their need for comfort when in pain or in the grip of negative emotions – constantly letting off deprecating comments and once the other person has been induced to bite back responding with “Can’t you take a joke?”. These behaviours (and everything in between which hurts and demeans the other partner) are a direct application of the messages enforced in childhood, in just the way you are speaking out against.
The only thing I don’t entirely agree with about your article is the implication that boys are the antagonists. I have a son about the same age as your daughter. He was bullied at school by both kids and teachers – by kids for being too kind and good-natured (which meant he didn’t fit in with the boys’ cliques, and was taken advantage of by the girls’ cliques), and by teachers. The latter was particularly hurtful for us: teachers in a state school prioritised “fitting in with the rest of the class” over bringing up decent human beings, teachers in private schools didn’t want to be involved in the daily battles in case they upset someone prosperous. The fact that he is articulate and not shy of speaking to adults as a peer probably didn’t help, but that’s another story.
And finally, your daughter is a lucky girl for having such a devoted mother! Well done to you, it’s a labour of love that never ends.
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Thanks for the excellent post, it hit a chord. I blogged my response, hope you don’t mind. http://wp.me/pAqJw-1ih
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As a mom of two boys, i have a mixed reaction. First, i see my own boys ramp up the personality on girls they really like. They just do. So there really us some truth to that part of things. But that doesn’t mean that the girls in question need to accept it. Girls, let those boys know what’s OK and what’s not. And as the mother of those boys, I’ll be the one at home shrugging my shoulders and telling them they need to learn a better way if they want a girl’s affection.
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Love this article. Thanks for being angry!
When I was in those shoes 30 years ago.. and being tormented by one boy in my class… and my mom went to speak to my asshole grade 6 teacher (Mr. Merson was just a grade 6 bully in a grown man’s body) .. he didn’t even bother with suggesting that Jim had a crush on me… he told my mom that I had a crush on Jim which is why I was coming home talking about him all the time. My mom was embarrased I think and shamed me. In fact, I was so shamed by the experience that I never ever again told about harassing behaviour.. even as a teen when I was sexually assaulted at a party and as a young woman when my boyfriend put his fist through the wall next to my head. Don’t worry.. I got free of all of that and trained to be a counselor … started my career 20 years ago working with abused teenage girls. 🙂
Today with a pre-teen daughter I see these scenarios playing out all over again. I also see where the lines can get blurry and confusing. My daughter has a crush on a boy and it might be mutual… but they seem to indicate it by chasing each all over the playground and I think this has escalated to name calling at times. We are in constant conversation about appropriate behaviour, showing kindness, appropriate touch (it is not okay to get his attention by slapping him on the arm when he walks by ….) and an important part of that is honoring the normal developmental and confusing sexual feelings that kids have for each other (girls for boys, boys for girls, girls for other girls, boys for other boys) and helping them to communicate in respectful ways with each other. It is hard hard work and it starts at home… it also starts with believing and defending your kids when they tell you something is wrong.
thanks again.. I will share this widely. I don’t think I know anyone whose eyes wil fall out because of your passionate use of language When I read it to my daughter I am capable of toning down the adult words for her ears. 🙂
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Hi,
I don’t know if you still read every comment (and if you do, kudos !) but I would like to request permission to translate that text in French and post it on the net, either on your website or on a Facebook note – of course with your name all over it. I am a professional translator and a feminist, and I think your text was brilliant. The first thing I wanted to do was show it to my sister who has kids (I don’t), or one of my friends who just had a daughter, but both these girls don’t speak or read english. I really wish we could help that text spread in France, I am sure a lot of people could learn something with it.
Please contact me if you would agree to that !
Corinne
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You absolutely have my permission. Thank you for reading and commenting!
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Reblogged this on What's For Dinner? and commented:
Ok, so this isn’t about food, but it is so important to me that people raise their kids right, I just had to repost it.
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A very well written article, with some very well written responses. Although I was not offended by the language (because I swear like a trucker), I understand that it stymies the ability to share it with our children or use it in the school system. But personally for me? The article was poignant and I applaud Queen of the Couch!!
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Fuck, fuck, fuck. There. Now u all know that I am not a prude with issues about self-expression. The fact remains, however, that the content and tone of this blog are conflicted.
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I grew up in the 60’s.
When I was 4 years old and at my first day of nursery school, a boy shoved me off the upright tire propped up in the sand. I recall landed hard, stunned for a moment. The kid was laughing.
Perhaps it is because I was raised with 3 older brothers, but my reaction wasn’t to complain to the yard teacher. I retaliated,, knocking the boy down, sat on him and commenced throwing rabbit punches to his chest.
Of course, the teacher broke it up and my mom was called and told that I was fighting.
My mom was very embarrassed and didn’t take me back to that nursery school.
I had a couple of other incidents like that in school. Always, it was another student,, a boy, who bullied me.
Sometimes, my retaliation was caught and punished, sometimes,, it wasn’t.
The last time it happened, I managed to roundhouse kick a boy in the crotch.
Amazingly, that stopped all the bullying. It was especially nice that I didn’t get caught for that one.
The messages that I got from the teachers was always that I shouldn’t retaliate…just tattle.
Like that is ever effective.
For boys, having their dads and moms give them permission to defend themselves is huge. Why is it so had for people to give their daughters permission to defend themselves?
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We’d love to have you guest blog for us at Intellipissies.com. We would put up a free banner featuring your site as well as links back to your blog. Great work. Thank you for this on behalf of women everywhere.
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I’d love to!
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I have been poking around your site and I fucking love it. I would love to do a guest blog for you!
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Youre so cool! I dont suppose I’ve read anything like this before. So nice to find somebody with some original thoughts on this subject. Really thank you for starting this up. This website is something that is needed on the web, someone with a little originality. Useful job for bringing something new to the internet!
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“If you try and feed MY daughter that crap, you better bring protective gear because I am going to shower you with the brand of “affection” you are endorsing.”
So you are advocating violence on a 10-year-old by an adult – specifically you? Whoops. Probably not a great idea. Agree with the concept of the post, but not the violence.
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I would try to avoid placing a 10yo elementary school situation into an adult context. Here is what was happening when I was a kid:
A 10yo boy is not *allowed* to like girls else his friends will ostracize him, tease him, call him names, and bully him. “Billy likes GIRLS!” isn’t something a 10yo boy wants to hear from his peers. And this is not anything anyone had to teach them. Nobody sat them down and said they weren’t supposed to like girls. Little boys and little girls just seem to naturally sort themselves at that age with some exceptions.
Now the boy is in an odd situation. He has noticed you, he wants you to notice him. He likes you but doesn’t know if you like him. He can’t be affectionate. If he gets caught holding your hand his name is mud. So he throws a pebble at you and when you look at him, maybe he smiles at you and runs away.
By the time the boy gets to 7th grade or so, it becomes cool to like girls and these playground antics fade. The boys that are affectionate with girls are then the envy of their peers and the ones that DON’T have a girlfriend begin to become the target of some ridicule. It is a mechanism by which group behavior is enforced by peer pressure of the group. Joey and Bobby don’t like girls and so will Billy is seen as taking a shine to one, they tease him. But later when it becomes both Billy and Bobby who like girls and Joey is the odd man out, the tables turn and Joey gets teased because he doesn’t have a girlfriend.
We are getting very close to completely messing up interactions between boys and girls in public schools. We have cases where an elementary school game of tag results in “sexual assault” charges against a 6yo when he touches someone where it isn’t supposed to but it was a game of tag and it was probably the only place where he could reach. We are starting to drag these children’s situations into our own reality rather than seeing in the context of their reality. We are projecting our own dramas, insecurities, and motives on kids just being kids.
Now this is not to say that SOME boys do not outgrow this, or more likely, they experience an abusive situation in their own home and have come to accept that as how relationships are supposed to work. In those cases, this playground activity can certainly get out of hand where the boy might believe it is acceptable to physically BEAT on someone for fun. But that isn’t what is happening in 99% of cases.
Also, the society believes that only men can be abusive in relationships. Having spent 10 years in a relationship with an abusive female (eventually diagnosed with borderline personality disorder, now deceased ) I can tell you with absolute certainty that there are some pretty darned abusive women out there, too. Probably many more than men are willing to admit because they are afraid they will look like sissies and there really isn’t much cultural support for an abused male. A couple with children may find a man suffering through abuse for the same reason many women suffer thought it … for the kids. But a man trying to get children away from their mother is still much more difficult than the other direction. A man who loves his children may suffer an abusive relationship. It they are unmarried it is even worse. I am willing to bet a coke and a hamburger that abused men are under reported in the statistic by probably something close to 90% because they don’t speak up.
Playground antics don’t lead to abusive relationships though they can provide situational cover for a child who has come to believe that abuse in relationships between men and women is “normal”. In that case, changing the behavior on the playground isn’t going to stop abusive males, it is simply going to result in the well adjusted boys engaging in affectionate behavior with girls later rather than sooner. . It isn’t the playground activity that is causing it, it is the living room activity at home that is doing it.
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Great post, have re-posted it on both fb and my blog. It´s such an important issue and I think for a lot of people it will help just reading something like this to get them thinking, since the majority of people don´t say this to be mean but just because they don´t realize what they´re actually telling their kids.
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I would need to take a week off work to read it all – I started and my head started to hurt after several comments. I will come back and read it all a bit at a time, but want to at least chime in at this point.
Little boys don’t pick on little girls to show affection; they do it to bond with little boys and begin the process of exercising power over women when they become men.
Little girls should defend themselves, and as they get older, should learn how to, but as a last resort, not a first response. Violence in adult male-female relationships is a serious social problem; the acceptance and expectation of it should not be learned in childhood. .
Education at home and school is the answer – not so much in response to occurrences, but as part of basic life skill learning. I would say most of this process has to happen at school, where policy is system wide. Sad to say, in many homes, children will see violence practiced in many forms: if not physical, then verbal; if not verbal, then in decision making and control of finances. In many homes, little girls learn to be powerless. Early childhood education needs to be more than learning how to spell and do arithmetic, it needs to empower and teach respect and equality between boys and girls.
Since i wish to add emphasis and demonstrate my outrage of the acceptance of the ‘boys will be boys’ attitude, I will simply say that I was a boy who had to unlearn this crap, and those of you who accept it can go fuck yourselves.
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Mommy! Mikey pushed me!
WHat? Who’s Mikey?
At SCHOOL, Mommy!
Did you fall down when he pushed you?
u-huh
Do you need a kiss to make it better?
‘K
Did you cry?
u-Huh
Awww Sweetie, what else happened?
huh?
Did something happen before? Was there an argument?
No
Then why did Mikey push you?
‘Cuz he likes me!
Now who told you that?
Teacher!
Well, Teacher was being really silly. That’s NOT what pushing means at all.
Huh?
What it means is that nobody ever taught Mikey how to talk to girls.
Huh? Mommy, Mikey talks alla time!
But he doesn’t know how to talk to girls who aren’t his Mommy, or Teacher. So because he didn’t know better, the only thing that occured to him was to push you. Which is really kinda sad, cuz I’ll bet now, nobody wants to be near Mikey at all, do they?
No.
Well, tomorrow, I’ll go to school with you. I’ll talk to your teacher about using the right words, and you talk to Mikey.
What do I say?
You say that talking to girls is just like talking to boys, and you say that pushing is bad. And you say if he wants to talk, just say hi or good morning, but if he ever pushes you again…
That I won’t EVER play with him again, even if he does ‘pologiyz.
EXACTLY!
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Sadly I agree with the – it’s a little, little boy theory. We, no one advocates violence, a grown man should not do such things and I will go one farther – even if it is deserved. Wait, think and hear me out. I have seen women beat on men, I have seen men get arrested because an abusive women tricked, pushed, prodded him to hit her. I watched a family member get beat up by his wife and the police took him away in handcuffs.
With that said, I will share with you what I told my daughter: little, little boys have a hard time knowing how to share emotions and sometimes do stupid things to get your attention – but if a boy hits you – kick him in the soap box [ do i have to explain ]…..
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The author of this post must also be outraged when male toddlers throw temper tantrums and hit their mothers. Why would any woman stand up for such violence. It’s time to hold boys to account for their behaviour towards women irregardless of age.
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All you whiney cocksuckers crying about “bad language”…fuck off!
No one cares to know just how big of a pussy you are. You know what a “bad word” is? FORCLOSURE. Or how about HUMAN RESOURCES. You wanna bitch? Bitch about real shit. Or gtfo.
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Exactly.
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You have made some really good points there. I checked on the net to find out more about the issue and found most individuals will go along with your views on this web site.
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Damn girl, you tell ’em! Love this post. I never even thought about it like this, but then again I don’t have a kid so it’s not an issue that’s in my face. But now I know what perspective I’m gonna take when I do have one =P
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Reblogged this on ryjoca and commented:
I came across a very very wonderful blog. I want to share it with you guys.
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Wonderful Blog..
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this is so true i have told my daughter who is 8 and at school if she is hit tell a teacher if teacher does nothing she has my permission to hit back and when the teacher tells her off like i know they will then send the teacher to me and it will be my turn
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I so agree with this! Our daughters, sisters, mothers, etc should never have to put up with being put down, degraded, etc…
My New wife thinks I have the biggest heart in the world… I do have a large heart, but what makes her think this, is she lived with some ASShole for 13 years and he beat her, put her down, belittled her in front of the kids…
Well those boys have learned in the last year, they don’t think of their mom or anyone else, male or female, or I Will beat their ass!
Thanks for the great blog!
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Its not really true. Eve teasing is entirely different than flirting. Let’s differentiate. The later is not abusive not intrusive and not unrespectful. Time to say big NO!
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Excellent post, I’m glad that someone is finally saying these sorts of things.
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Oh gosh, I’m not looking forward to my little girl growing up with boys that “tease”.
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Well… wow… just wow! I’ve been wanting to comment on this particular post and my head is still spinning from days of reading all the comments. Silly people who don’t like the language if you haven’t moved on yet just either get on with it or accept you like what you read on some level and leave it ALONE already!
I actually can only recall maybe a couple times anyone ever told me that boys express their like for me or other girls by being mean or hurtful. My own mother was the one who said it. Sorrowfully I believed it. Lovely… the one woman I looked up to the most in my childhood years. /rolls eyes/ She also told me when I was in Elementary school that I was a “PT”. Again lovely. If you don’t know what a PT is… my wonderful and holy, catholic mother was telling me I was a Prick Tease. Thanks mom. /hides head in dire embarrassment/ (This was supposed to be a compliment?!) I wore sack cloth and ashes from that point on. It’s nothing short of a miracle I ever attracted a man and got married (which thankfully I did both).
The thing that hurt the most all of my life was that she let my own older brother’s not only belittle me and call me “pig” and other ugly names… but they were allowed to physically hurt me all in the name of /let’s say it together/ L-O-V-E. That’s how they show love…. ugh. Furthermore she would tell me they don’t know any better. (And who was teaching them I might wonder… ?)
Well I personally hung on every word in this blog post, swearing and all. It was nothing sort of a miracle snap. How perfectly put. Thank you.
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Once upon a time, boys pushed girls. Once upon a time, girls got in a huddle and whispered and giggled about boys. The boys’ behavior made the girls feel bad, and the girls’ behavior made the boys feel bad. It was because neither the boys nor the girls were comfortable talking to each other. They were, well, different. And when they grew up, not much changed. Some of the boys still pushed the girls, and some of the girls still whispered and giggled about the boys. And a lot of them felt no different than they did when they were little kids. End of story?
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Oh… and I haven’t heard the word “Unfuckingbelievable” yet.
Fitting.
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FUCK YEAH! and you are the first blog i have said FUCK YEAH to. so incredibly well said. hear, hear. and if you need any backup on any a** whooping you need to give…just let sweet mother know.
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Wow, I just sucked into all these comments, many of which are completely ridiculous! Some people need to get a grip; I would bet money the conversation she had with her children sounded quite different than the commentary she posted in her blog. This post is meant for adults, who should understand when sarcasm is being used. Regardless, this is a great post and needed to be said. Too often we sweep these issues under the rug. Women are criticized for staying with abusers but we rarely look at the root of the problem, and this is it. Gender roles are engrained in our minds from such a young age, and the problem is that those roles were created by a male-dominated society. EVERYONE should read this, not just parents! I’m not a parent yet, but if I hadn’t been taught as a kid that teasing means guys liked me, it would have saved a lot of confusion in my adult life. Thanks for speaking up!
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quality post, I’m sharing it on FB!
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Fantastic story, loved the photo.
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Fantastic story, loved the photo..
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THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU. Since when did this line of crap start? Also, since when should we keep up with the idea that a guy who shows no interest in you actually likes you? And that he will run to get to the airport to FINALLY tell you that he loves you? Thanks 80s movies….for nothing. xoxo, Pola
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As the mother of two 20-ish young women, I dealt with this issue firsthand, at least with one of them. My older daughter was chunky, and so easily became a target. In her sophomore year, this one asshole kid bugged her all the time without provocation, and I don’t think it was because ‘he liked her.’ After a cooking class incident involving blowing kisses while talking shit to her, I told the teacher “Deal with it directly or else get asshole’s parents in so we can all have a little come-to-Jesus chat.”
Another jerk-off chased her home from the bus a few times, throwing apples…another unprovoked incident from a member of Future Wife-Beaters of America.
Here’s the deal: you plant corn, you grow corn…so it’s still sort of ‘okay’ for boys to be raised not to respect girls. It is not okay. It is not unrequited feelings: It’s bullshit from idiot parents.
p.s. Don’t apologize for expressing yourself. This is a blog. If you don’t like the language folks, read different blogs. Duh.
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Ed makes and extremely important point. When we are young we get more information about how to emotionally respond and even HOW we ought to be be effected by social interactions from our parents than anyone else. Mom here is teacher her daughter to feel victimized and insulted. ALL children, boys and girls have difficulty with impulse control and knowing how to treat others when they have a keen interest but no common ground. Should a child grab silly bands, no, is this domestic violence against women, no. It’s an impuls control problem…. Just as the language used in the article shows inpulse control issues. Of course children need to be guided towards better social behavior (as this author needs guidance toward better social behavior i.e. Appropriate language and conflict resolution.) Parents should not teach their CHILDREN( notice I didn’t say girls) to accept aggressive behavior… Nor should they teach their children to feel like victims and treat the world with hostility and suspicion. Conflicts like this are a grand opportunity to teach a child how to handle social conflict and how to maintain their control and dignity throughout a disagreement. In fact, in the years ahead you may very well have raised the aggrasive abusive person… And that little boy who wanted the silly bands, if his parents calmly guided him towards better control may very well be the better person. Parenting is a long road. We can never… Not even as adults…control what others do but we can always control who we are in the situation.
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Deference to op , some wonderful information . “Consider that this day ne’er dawns again.” by Alighieri Dante.
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But…. when girls hit me, sometimes it meant they liked me. I didnt hit girls, I found other ways to show my affections. Still, telling your child to ignore the motivations and context of an action.
I was allowed to hit back in self defense- and if I hadnt know it was self defense I might have broken a few young ladies noses in the second grade.
My point is that accurate information is key- your child will make their own decisions, so dont you owe it to them to be accurate?
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People give the same explaination for girls being mean to boys. And it’s true. When children that age like someone, they sometimes are mean to that person because they are still in that age-group where socializing with the opposite sex is a huge faux-pas!
I would never make a post about how telling a boy that a girl who is being mean to him actually likes her is indocrtinating him with wanting abuse. Your argument is way off base.
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THANK YOU.
Really. Thank you. This is just perfect. Yes.
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I haven’t read through all the comments, but I do agree that we should not be telling little girls that this is ok. I am a mom of two boys. Two very respectful boys. We have always taught them to never hit a girl under any circumstance. I have told them, if a boy hits you first, punch the shit out of him. If a girl hits you, walk away and tell an adult. So, my point is, let’s also teach our girls to have the same respect for the opposite sex.
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Right on! It’s about time folks woke up! Wonder what example has been set for boys — by their fathers or other male role models, that teach that!
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Thank you for posting this. I have two daughters and have struggled with trying to teach them how to stand up for themselves against bullies (male or female). I have had issues with the schools they attend not giving a damn a blowing it off. Your message has opened my eyes and made me realize that if I don’t do something more to stand up for my children they will never learn to stand up for themselves. Thank you for the good message and the reminder. And you should also thank Break It Down Pete. I wouldn’t have know about this post if I hadn’t been subscribed to his blog and he reposted it.
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I read about 6 comments before I decided to stop and write my own comment. I have to say, I am a bit frustrated by those wishing to censor the blogger’s use of “expletives.” That, to me, is very much beside the point and distracts from the point of her expression. I greatly appreciate this as a woman, a grown woman who has been in an abusive relationship, who was bullied frequently throughout my life and was brushed off dismissively in such ways. Why on earth does it matter if she says FUCK? It is an expression of frustration and anger around the issue; if that what offends you in this article, what a privileged and fortunate life you lead. It is her choice to express herself in this manner, and as someone above pointed out, if you don’t like the swearing, substitute for something else. I didn’t find it the least bit gratuitous or offensive, and believe me, I was raised to think cursing was this horrid thing that would send me straight to hell, but there is a context here…and so, naturally, this is not what she is saying this word for word to her daughter. Anyone is, of course, free to be offended, so continue on, but I for one want to say thank-you, and only wish the adults in my life, past and present, had stood up for me and thought I deserved respect, and that it wasn’t acceptable for people to verbally/physically/sexually abuse me.
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Great fucking blog and wow there are a lot of fucking comments! Here’s my fifty cents for the swear jar. Aww fuck it run a tab and keep my $5.
So is this why nice guys finish last, because women are looking for the bullies?
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As someone who unfortunately invokes the expletives railed against in some of the comments here I have to say as unprofessional as it may sound Ina blog treating precious little girls violently is WAY worse a crime. Please people keep the authors extremely valid point in perspective. I remember being a bully when I was a kid and engaging in violent behaviors towards one girl in particular and I shudder at the age of 38 at what I did when I was a preteen. I so wish I could go back in time and confront myself. God help any kid I find bulling my kids! Bullying causes issues that are lifelong and I know of people who have NEVER recovered fully from the mental anguish. Swearing can be dealt with and handled much better!
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Great post. This is one of those shitty things parents teach their kids and always have that needs to be questioned. I was closer to my mother as a kid and escaped the macho programming of other boys. Any girl I liked got a poem or a kiss. As an adult, I’ve become a teacher and am sad to see the silencing of girls and violencing of boys is still accepted practice. Keep shaking things up, and if people had punched me when I was a kid, I’d feel like swearing too!!
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I see you have about 894 comments and maybe you don’t need one more, but I would still like to say thank you for addressing this issue. Our society does a lot to teach girls and women to just roll over and accept bad behavior, and this is certainly one of the ways that is maintained. It won’t stop unless we stop it. Good for you for teaching your daughter that violence isn’t cute, it isn’t a valid way to express affection, and it isn’t acceptable. Period.
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JC Miller has the only criticism of this Blog that actually appears relevant… who cares about the profanity… Miller offers excellent suggestions regarding student’s communication with authority figures and how that effects a child’s development etc. Please see Miller’s criticism. It’s good and thoughtful, unlike all this other tripe about profanity.
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My daughter gets pushed/punched/bullied by the “boys who like her”. After a lot of “well, did you tell the teacher?” “Yes, all that happened was he had to stay in next recess” and then the poor behaviour started again… I taught her to hit back. Turns out hte boys don’t like getting punched by a girl in front of their friends. Who knew ;).
And yeah, I know she might get suspended for “fighting”. If the principal can’t fathom self defence from a girl that’s just fine. She can stay home. We’ll go for ice cream, it will be great!
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Bravo
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Thank you for this… the message that our society needs to “get” is that violence is NEVER an acceptable behavior, and those that perpetrate violence are nothing but bullies who are ASSAULTING someone–committing a crime, and should be treated like they are committing a crime.
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I believe you are over reacting… there is a fine line between playful and physical abuse. You dont seem to see the difference. Also, if you hold your daughters hand her whole life, she will become dependent on you to protect her and when you are not there, she wont know what to do. Kids need to learn how to deal with problems themselves and only need intervention if necessary. dont over react to some simple child play.
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Why can’t I just do my homework and not follow stupid links on facebook, get annoyed and comment?
Is this a fucking South Park episode? It seems from scanning the comments that almost everybody falls into some comically extreme polar side of what is for some reason being turned into a complex issue, ostensibly because you all also have homework to do and are merely procrastinating with idiotic blog posts. Yes, boys should be disciplined so they don’t grow up to be jackasses who are unable to properly express their feelings. However, any remotely functional person learns to figure out the difference between abuse and playful teasing over time. They learn this mostly on their own, with guidance from parents, friends, etc.
Also, I’d really, REALLY love to be a fly on the wall when you confront two intelligent and responsible adults and explain to them that their ten year old son is an “asshole”.
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“Also, I’d really, REALLY love to be a fly on the wall when you confront two intelligent and responsible adults and explain to them that their ten year old son is an “asshole”.”
I would as well. When presented with enculturated shaming language by post-feminists, even directed at children (gotta get them young or they’ll turn into rapists or Bill Maher),even the mothers will go haywire. I would, too. If a woman had shamed my sons for being kids I would’ve given her a broken jaw.
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Reblogged this on Undomesticated Housewife and commented:
My dear friend QueenoftheCouch’s post has caused quite a stir! Totally worth reading if you have been under a rock and managed to get by without doing so yet.
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So, I read your other posts that came after this one. I realized that they were probably pertaining to this article.
1- I loved this and shared it with all of my friends. It is being circulated through fb, reddit, and i’m sure many more sites.
2-I did a search for the word ‘fuck’ and I love how i got 100 matches, and only 2 of those were from your article. The rest are from your readers. idk about you but i find it fucking hilarious.
keep up the good fucking work 😉
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There are some interesting points in time in this article but I donft know if I see all of them center to heart. There is some validity but I will take hold opinion until I look into it further. Good article , thanks and we want more! Added to FeedBurner as well
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What started off as a sound argument and an interesting premise really became tortuous to read. Saying that you would beat parents up and calling little children assholes is very disrespectful. In fact I find here you are trying to fight violence with violence and that isn’t a message I think anyone should see. So while I thought initially this was going to be an interesting read, it quickly became something I couldn’t stomach finishing, and I didn’t, This was passed on to me by a friend, but it stops here with me.
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Boys do show affection in that way sometimes…
But that doesn’t mean girls have to put up with it.
Boys should grow up and learn to treat girls nicely, not the other way round. So yeah, well put.
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interesting post…i like it…
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Makes perfect sense to me. When I was in 1st grade, I had a “love”. No hair pulling, no pushing, no punching… Just smiling and talking and feeling awkward on both sides. That is by far the exception, however, and there is absolutely no reason for things to be that way.
Likewise, there is absolutely no reason that queenofthecouch can’t get angry and swear in her post. That’s what people do when they’re angry. Maybe what really bothers certain people is not the language itself, but the fact that qotc saw something wrong and cared enough about her child to try and actually DO something about it. That’s more than we can say for most people, I’m afraid.
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I taught my daughters that it was best to diffuse a bullying/teasing situation with a joke. The one I recommended was:
“Knock, knock”
“Who’s there”
“Shut the fuck up!”
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I can’t believe the fucking whiners in these comments. They’ve arbitrarily decided some words are not acceptable in polite company…what the hell is that list based upon? How the fuck is the word “poo” acceptable if “shit” is not? They mean the same damn thing.
It’s the intent and meaning of words that matter not whether they’re on some taboo list you set up at random.
Idiots.
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Very funny! “he’s a little asshole!” hahaha 🙂 about time we had someone standing up to a very outdated, sexist view that society has adopted! 🙂 -Roisin.
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Absolutely fabulous post! I have shared it on Facebook, and have had women reply that they’ve “never thought about it that way, but she’s right.” The practice is so embedded in the culture that women don’t even notice it. I believe this is intimately connected with the current attacks on women’s rights, healthcare, and access to birth control. Women are standing up for themselves, and those in power have reacted by trying to push them back down. This struggle is unwittingly reflected across the culture by men who care for the women in their lives, but have never been taught that this behavior is harmful. The empowerment of one does not necessarily destroy the power of another. It is sad that we still have those in our world who cannot understand this.
Thank you for this essay. I have shared it with my daughter, my son, my husband, and anyone who will take my recommendation to read it.
(And just for the record, as far as I’m concerned, language is a TOOL, and profanity is one of the tools in the toolbox. To get hung up on what *society* has deemed a cuss word is missing the whole point!)
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What i do not realize is if truth be told how you are now not actually much more well-favored than you might be right now. You are very intelligent. You realize therefore considerably in terms of this topic, produced me in my view imagine it from numerous numerous angles. Its like women and men don’t seem to be involved until it is one thing to accomplish with Lady gaga! Your own stuffs nice. Always care for it up!
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Writing 101: Write to your target audience. Logically speaking, your audience is not going to include everyone in the world. It’s impossible for one style of writing to appeal to everyone. Get over the profanity already.
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Queen of the couch, you have really hit the tip of a massive iceberg here! There are so many things that we are teaching the younger generations without knowing it. If I may, an example: I took a young friend shopping a while back, and watched as she negatively commented on her body the whole time she tried on clothes. I wondered where this idea that people would so critically assess her outfit came from, until I realized after shopping with some of my “own age” friends how surely the comments, “Wow, check out those cream cheese legs! Eek!”, “Oh look at that, couldn’t she get it any shorter?” and “Who let him out dressed like that?” could certainly lead to the opinion that everyone would be judging her.
Now I am not saying I said all, or any of these comments to my young, or own age friend, the point is, I’m sure at some point I have made similar comments, and no doubt at some point some young impressionable mind was listening.
This is just a small example of one of the many things that we are unknowingly teaching our youth, overtly judging others (choice of clothing, looks, eating patterns, behavior, life choices etc) gives the impression, you will be judged. There are so many subtle ways that we shape children’s lives, through our actions, our words, the things we do say, and the things we don’t say.
I don’t believe, as was suggested, that you are suggesting domestic violence is in anyway the victims fault, but rather that we need to be aware of just how impressionable children are.
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Reblogged this on Mom Paradigm and commented:
I couldn’t have said this better myself!
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As the mother of two impulsive toddlers. I can see both of my children “getting to close, pushing or shoving to get attention.” I would not disagree with any child who chose to push back, etc. I think kids learn best from interactions like this. If I had daughters I would not condone another child’s aggression. As a social worker this mentality of asserting onself whenever you are wronged is a little dangerous. It may work when your child is young or when the offender is caught off guard but I have seen over an over how an inability to back down or suffer a wrong done to you creates more violence. I know of at least two teens killed in a fight that escalated beyond both children’s ability to cope. Violence creates violence. Aggression creates more aggression. I think as parents we have to teach assertiveness and also the ability to separate themselves from the actions of others.
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Thank you for your very well written, and extremely insightful article.
I’m ashamed to say I’ve said that in the past. Yes, I admit it. I was raised hearing that response when something happened to me. My only salve is that I’ve never said it to a little girl, but in conversations with moms, and perhaps dads, dealing with frustration over distressing unwanted aggressive physical attention toward their daughters, usually at school.
I so greatly appreciate your taking the time to write out your thoughts. This apparently is one of those deeply ingrained automatic responses, the type of which I have been ridding myself over the last several years. Somewhere I knew this attitude was wrong, as I was careful to raise my son to show respect, or at the very least, no disrespect, to other people, including his schoolmates. He has always been a kind person, clearly and reportedly gentle and respectful of the women in his life.
Well, now I’m off to dig around in my head to see what other twisted thoughts might be hiding there, buried under fifty years of human interaction.
Again, my sincere thanks.
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Great article, very thought-provoking. I re-posted on my site and fb page (with credit to you). Thanks for this.
http://www.cribnoteskelly.com/1/post/2012/02/kids-will-be-kids.html
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Haha, reminds me of that guy who threw a stink bomb at me, when we were ten. My mom confronted his mom, who came with that exact same ‘bs’. My mom didn’t buy it nor did I… Glad for that, in my teenage and adult life I can say I was quite capable of establishing boundaries – to a point where m class mates – boys but even some girls) told me, I’d never get a guy acting like that. And I was like: If there are only guys like you around – lucky me. Turned out, there are also nice guys walking on this planet 🙂
That said, I and my then bff, were also guilty of bossing around a boy for some time when I was 6 or 7. Not proud of that and my mom reprimanded me strongly when she learnt it. It really goes both ways, though I’d say more often than not boys are the ‘bad guys’.
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Thank you for writing this article I agree with all of it. My only concern is that now a days when you tell your child to defend themselves, they are the ones getting sent to detention, and that is why a lot of kids are scared to strike back.
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I think you have quite a bit of people backing you up and I am one of them. I find your article incredibly engaging, humorous and relatable. I personally feel that foul language online is a way for parents to vent before using in front of kids, which in turn has them repeating it. Kudos to you! For all the people offended, well the best solution is that you not read her blog or follow her blog or send it to others. If you are so severely insulted by language, you’re probably not meant to be here. Blogs are made for like minded people. I for one read because this is the same manner I would think/react/be. Again, way to be on the ball and keep on parenting however you see fit, just as everyone should do.
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Thank you!!
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Well spoken!
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I’ve been trolling through your comments because I’m at home, sick, and I refuse to get off the sofa no matter how many times my children beg for food. Besides the overwhelmingly kick-ass message of your blog (my girls are 7 and 9), I love the way you take the PC commenters balls-on:
“Ed
Feb 15, 2012 @ 13:24:03
I think that the ideas here deserve to be listened to and understood. It is unfortunate that the gueenofthecouch needs foul language to help get her point across. I would have more respect for her opinions if she spoke english with out the use of expletives.
the undersigned
Feb 15, 2012 @ 18:38:03
fuck off, ed”
I’m not trying to pick on Ed, but yeah, sometimes you do need to use foul language to get a point across. Because. It. Gets. The. Fucking. Point…..Across.
Nicely done and congrats on being freshly pressed.
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LMAO–I agree! Thanks for reading and commenting!
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@Qofthe couch Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts and insights so honestly & passionately! I must confess I am one of those who’d joke about that same thing…..somewhere in my life that was put into my thinking….wow! How wrong I was! I will not say that again or even think it! I had never thought of it that way! I hope people can read your article and pass on the information without getting stuck on the language used. Thanks for so graciously letting people know that they can use a programme to censor it. I felt your anger and passion while i read it and it gave me goosebumps….I will change my attitude right now and i will do what I can to spread that important message you have given us! Good on you. Let’s teach our children how to behave when they like someone to do it in a positive way! all the best to you and your precious daughter.
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Thank you so much for reading and understanding my point of view.
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Well said. I also like what one responder said about the passive aggressive remarks like, “What – you can’t take a joke?” My husband and his brother are horrible at doing this and I got them to stop because whenever they would do it, I would completely disengage. I didn’t fight back, shout or defend myself. I would simply remove myself from the exchange. It took a while, but it does work. That said, that approach won’t work for everyone, but it did work for me.
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Preach it, sister! I’ve got two 8 yr old boys and I’ve been teaching them since they were toddlers that some boys who like girls have no idea how to show it and that they do some stupid, mean, wrong things. And I told them how I was tormented by boys who supposedly did it because they “liked” me and how I hated it and how I hated those boys. I’ve been teaching them that they may feel uncomfortable and nervous, but here’s what to say and do if you like a girl and I give them specific examples. I think I’m on the right track because I heard one boy go up to a girl and say, “Your hair looks lovely.” And she invited him to sit by her. People chastised me for teaching them these things at such a young age, but then how do we expect little boys to know what to do and how to behave if we don’t take the time to specifically teach them?!?
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So my girlfriend alerted me to this article. First let me say that I often tickle her, so please do not alert your local police department. It is not abuse, rather it is affection, and yes we are aware of the difference. However, a 10 year old boy is not aware of this difference yet. He is not cognitively ready yet. I remember this age well, and i must admit that I was still trying to figure out what role this opposite sex played in my life. Was I suppose to see them as my other guy friends, or was I suppose to treat them as sensitive creatures that should be handled with care, or heaven forbid was I suppose to like them in a more then a friend way. And to be honest none of my male friends understood this last option yet; sure some would go around saying they were “boyfriend and “girlfriend” but they had no idea of its true meaning. My point is that at this age boys and girls are just beginning to learn about their different gender roles. Roughing around on the playground or teasing a girl in a playful manner is just one way that boys begin to establish the difference between the sexes. Trust be in a couple of years the boys will reach a new cognitive level and they will better understand the roles between them and their female counter parts, and then hitting females on the playground will not mean the main way they show their affection; if it is then then possibly you should look into that child’s development or home life. The morale of this argument is let kids be kids, and quit trying to assume 10 year old boys have the cognitive ability of grown men. Also on a side note from my childhood there were just had many girls playing rough on the playground and in the class rooms has boys, and they were not provoked by boys to do it!
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I’d have to check with you here. Which is not something I usually do! I enjoy reading a post that will make people think. Also, thanks for allowing me to comment!
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It’s such a great site
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It’s hard to find knowledgeable people on this topic, but you sound like you know what you’re talking about! Thanks
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Wow!! Now that I think about it, a huge part of this post is sooo right!!! Thank you for getting your opinions across! I believe, everyone should read this. It’ll surely give them something to think hard about. 🙂
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Never heard it described as such and couldn’t agree more.
When I was in grade school a boy threw handfuls of sand in my face, it happened so fast I didn’t have time to shut my eyes. It blinded me temporarily and the process of getting all that sand out of my eyes was a slow and painful process and has permanently scratched the cornea in both eyes. I was upset and angry and wanted to blindly punch him in the face but the teachers only said ‘don’t be mad, he only did it because he likes you’. seriously.
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or boys teasing boys?:) same thing really….
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It’s a shame that this happens in our society.
Can I make the point though that these kids are merely that, kids? We shouldn’t smack the living daylights out of them to make a point, we should explain the points we’re trying to make calmly and rationally.
Violence doesn’t solve violent problems.
Here’s to hoping your kids learn these good values off of yourself, and that they do learn how to show respect to others. 🙂
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This is a great piece – incredibly well-written in every aspect and YES even with the foul language. Scary thing is, I was given these same messages as a kid after being mauled & groped by a boy in my class. To the point I felt humiliated and guilty (!!!!) for even telling. Roll forward to me as an 18yr old years and the same thing happens again….only worse…by a man twice my age….a co-worker….and what did I do? Said nothing – convinced everyone would just say it was my fault.
It is NOT acceptable to endure verbal, physical, emotional abuse or otherwise – and least of all to see it as a sign of affection. SO those that think that way can, in my book too, just fuck right off!!!!
Thank you Queen of the Couch!
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Awesome post and I LOVE LOVE LOVE the expletives. They make a solid point.
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Just another example of how overly sensitive and prima donna this society has become. . . Cry me a river. . . Wah, wah, wah!!!!! This attitude makes me absolutely sick!!! I hope those of you who embrace this post never have to face a really serious situation, because I’ve got some harsh news for you. . . You’ll never make it. . . Life is hard, get over it. . . Take your whiny, spineless self-serving attitudes and go play somewhere else!!!
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So Gary, you’re content telling your daughters that being physically or verbally abused at a young age is OK because it’s merely a form a affection?
I hope for your daughters’ sake that is not the case.
This article isn’t about whining – yes attitudes have changed a lot in recent years and I truly believe we are living in a nanny state – but telling children of either sex that abuse=love is just downright irresponsible. And for that this article has a good point.
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Way to fucking go!! Great article…and it might bring you a little hope to know that my now-adult boy totally detests and is disgusted by people who use violence to sort things out or ‘express themselves’ whether in the playground, on the street or in the home.
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As a mother of 5 girls, I love this post! I have always taught my girls to not let anyone push them around, boy or girl. I will be passing this alone to friends and family…Thanks!!
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Thank you for writing this!! The concept of boy bullying a girl and this somehow equating to his infatuation with the girl has always puzzled me. It’s essentially another form of gender-based victim blaming which leads to more serious issues in adulthood such as blaming victims of sexual assult for tthe fact they were attacked. Mainting the notion that a boy ‘has a crush’ on a girl when he acts like a complete pillock towards her simply perpetuates the idea that its acceptable to disrespect women.
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The problem with activists of all stripes is that they don’t understand the capacity for grey areas. In the same way that abuse should not be tolerated, neither is it absolutely deplorable for someone to ever push physical or verbal boundaries of any kind with someone of the opposite sex… as adults, we understand this concept most of the time, in that we don’t just go around slapping everyone we know and/or like in the face, but have definitely been known to throw a half-hearted punch at our significant other if they say something that they also didn’t really mean and was half-funny.
It’s probably also worth noting that not every immature way that children have of relating feelings they don’t yet fully understand is a precursor for adult abusive choices and actions, much less “conditioning” for tolerating abusive relationships.
Also, nobody “deserves” respect and love in this world, we are called to offer it regardless… That’s what makes this post so hard to read… it’s taking self-righteous indignation, clothing it in sarcasm, and telling people that nobody but themselves matters, and that there is no room for grace, even for children who don’t know better. And that the best response is, apparently, to write the boy off as a “little asshole”? That’s the lesson for your kids?
Sigh.
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Awesome post… i think its way too often that parents just let things slide not knowing the harm its doing to their kids, and just allow the main way of thinking to take over…. Like the whole idea of toys… Boys always get ambulances, cars, etc, while girls get dolls and barbies… I remember once watching a commercial about a new baby doll that had come out and it could cry when it pooped so the little girl could have fun cleaning its shit. UMM WTF? is that really supposed to be fun? At a young age we are teaching little girls that their concept of fun should be being a mom and looking pretty… Another thing is the different kind of reinforcement girls get vs boys. I remember when I was little I would always tell me little brother what to do, whenever we were playing or whatever else it was we did at that age. It wasn’t like I was telling him to do bad things, or bullying him, not at all. I was just older, had better ideas and when he listened we would both have fun anyways. My old fashioned grandma and uncle would put me down by telling me I was too bossy- always. BUT THEN when my older brother did the same thing, telling me or the younger one what to do, they would praise his leadership skills. WHAT?? How does that make sense? Why is it that when a girl acts that way, she gets the negative connotation of being bossy??
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Great points! I know that people would think it was so odd, to the point of expressing concern, when my son LOVED the color pink, during the preschool years. He liked to wear pink and I let him. He also liked to carry a purse and I let him. I mean, he was 3-4 fucking years old. If he continued to want to carry a purse through elementary, high school and college, not one ounce of fuck would have been given.
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haha that’s awesome… They say that one of the beauties of being a child is your innocence. So why the fuck taint it with adult logic based on stereotypes and everything bad that comes with growing up??
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LOVE this!!! I have never thought about how ridiculous the whole idea of it is. I will be passing this on for sure!
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I LOVE this post. I have not incountered this situation yet as my two girls have not yet entered the realm of school, but I will for sure not not have that age old gem slip through my lips. Right on, for calling a duck a duck so to speak.
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I think you are insane! Completely neurotic and paranoid! Why do you even have to explain this crap to your children at all? Are your kids so stupid that they can’t think for themselves and figure things out on their own? Why does some boy push some girl, and put sticks in her hair? Actually it really is probably because he likes her… and contrary to your insanely overbearing self-righteous, downright scary attitude – that does actually go both ways! As a boy, I had a girl jumping around in front of me after recess punching me repeatedly in the face because, that’s right, she liked me! When I started bleeding profusely the consequences of what she was doing suddenly struck home and she was overcome with guilt for her behavior and treated me with great respect from then on. Another time, in a different school a year or so later, some girl decided it would be fun to slap me in the face about 20 times, because she liked me. These are only the most extreme cases I can think of off the top of my head – but being picked on and treated with cruelty by girls who liked me was pretty common for me as a child. And you know what, I didn’t run home and tell my mother, or a teacher, or anyone else. Because my parents raised me to think for myself and deal with things on my own! You are raising your children to be little self righteous weaklings who can’t deal with life. I didn’t fight back against those girls not because my parents taught me not to hit girls, because they didn’t have to teach me that – no I figured that out all by myself as well. Though I was one of those strange kids, skinny, and weird, so the male bullies were always drawn to me right away. Having moved around a lot as a kid I had to deal with new bullies at new schools almost once a year – so I got pretty damned good at knocking the biggest bullies flat and nipping that shit in the bud! Again, not because my parents told me to, but because that was the sensible thing to do under the circumstances. And that was a wonderful life experience for me that taught me valuable life lessons.
Also, think about this, had one of those girl’s parents happened to see what she was doing, and give her a talking to, even a very empathetic, gentle but firm talking to – that would have only made my life more difficult. You can be sure that the girl would not suddenly become a model of kindness and respect – no she would have only developed a deep resentment towards me in place of what had been attraction, and then she may likely have developed deeply passive-aggressive tactics to torment me daily and those passive-aggressive tendencies would likely have informed her personality on a far longer term than the brief, natural, childhood phase of not knowing how to deal with feelings of attraction.
Kids don’t know how to deal with some new feelings, but they are best left to work that out on their own. Healthy kids are not so fragile and prone to lasting psychological damage as adults like to think – they are resilient, and their hardships make them stronger and smarter. As for girls developing submissive tendencies later in life due to this sort of thing, that is just total BS. In fact quite to the contrary, some kids who may already have some serious submissive tendencies may find that working these sort of issues out in their own time and their own way provides just the needed impetus to overcome those tendencies, while having some grown up ‘attempt’ to come to their rescue may actually compound those issues. When parents and grown-ups try to meddle too deeply in the natural development of children the results are almost never what they intend. Kids do not need an aggressive adult protector to defend them against other children.
Of course there are extreme cases where intervention is obviously called for, and there are kids who already have serious issues that if left alone may only become worse, but I am talking about the average kids and their typical social dynamics. Extreme cases obviously call for special considerations, but the average kids, and their childhood trials and social maneuverings are best left to children to workout amongst themselves. So why don’t you grown-ups get some freaking lives of your own and let your children live theirs for crying out loud! You people are unbelievable – trying to force your twisted, self-righteous ideas of political correctness into the natural lives and learning processes of children – and more likely screwing them up in the head far worse than having to think for themselves ever could…
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I agree with this side of this disturbing, yet all too real subject. I also agree with the others, when they say that your point is just as valid, if not more acceptable without the use of foul language. We SHOULD all teach our sons and daughters that ANY sort of violent behavior, and inappropriate physical contact is UNACCEPTABLE, but what kind of example are we setting for our youth by expressing our deepest concerns with the F-word and other bad language, that we otherwise discourage our kids from using? Sort of setting an example of Hypocrisy, don’t you think? Anyone that condones this type of language, being in a adult based discussion, or not, should take a look in the mirror. If we are making an argument on what is and is not okay for our youth, then using better language is one BIG point we should all make when setting an example. Instead of defending use of words, that have no point, other than to TRY to sound cool, or to cover up some stupid insecurity we have, ourselves, we should lead by example, and refrain from the use of this USELESS Terminology. Foul language is not necessary, we get the point. This is one issue that does not help our children in their daily lives. Every time we turn on the tv, we have to hope there is not over use of bad language. Like I said, she makes a valid point, I agree 100% that violence starts early and kids are taught to accept it as “flirting”. I was in an abusive relationship for years, and part of that abuse, was being screamed at with obscenities.
@ Vladimir Resputtin, It is ABSOLUTELY NOT the girl’s fault if this is a continuous thing in her life! It is the fault of the abuser, and whomever taught him or her that it is okay and acceptable to hit another person! Good Grief! Seriously? ” but its your fault if you let it continue to happen. there needs to be boundaries, thats where the woman comes in and tells her daughter that sh*t.” Get real dude!
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It’s sickening that ANYONE could make excuses for this behavior. And it’s even more disturbing that people can blame a victim for “putting up with the abuse” and saying that it is their fault for letting it get too far. Don’t make remarks such as those, until you’ve walked a mile in an abused woman’s shoes! It just is NOT as simple as MAKING it stop. It get s out of hand, and fast, and more often than not, the woman is forced to stay in an abusive relationship, by being threatened with murder if she attempts, in any way, to leave, or get help! Trust me, I’ve been there before. My ex, threatened to kill my child, and even threw him, not dropped, but THREW HIM into his crib, from about ten feet away, he hit his head on the bars of the crib, and I kept him up all night, and took him to the ER when my ex finally fell asleep, in fear that my 5 month old son, had a concussion! Then he beat me, for doing so, and left my child and I on the side of the road, in -20 degree weather, in the middle of nowhere. So don’t sit there, and try to TELL me that it was MY FAULT! When I finally got to a phone, I called 911, and he was put in jail, and I was free.!!!!
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I hope you didn’t infer from my blog that I think you were at fault for the abuse you endured! I, myself, am a rape survivor and I assure you that I wouldn’t want to imply that victims bring abuse upon themselves. I can’t express how sorry I am for what you went through but I hope you recognize how strong you are for standing up, reporting the abuse and removing yourself and your child from the situation.
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Oh no! I was not implying that at all! I am with you 100%! I was replying to some over-zealous asshole, that said that it is the woman’s fault for taking and tolerating abuse! Thank you for your kind words my friend! Much appreciated! I love your view on the whole issue of boys and their ways of showing “feelings” at such a young age, you go girl! I’m your #1 fan! 🙂
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You totally opened my eyes to something I never put together! I was actually punched in the face when i was 10 because the boy didn’t like how I was playing tag. I got the ol’ he probably likes you crap. I’m not trying to be funny, but holy cow! I wonder if this is why I have such bad luck in relationships. Always trying to please the asshole.
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What are you on about Valerie? I mean not to sound unsympathetic to what sounds like your very real hardships, bu you can NOT judge the typical interactions of average children by the gauge of what sounds like out of control abusive situations. What you are talking about is a whole different realm of dysfunctional! And any sort of connection between all that and the typical social interactions of young children is extremely tentative at best. You guys just can’t help but project all your own twisted complexes onto everything else, even onto the most innocent antics of young kids discovering their emotions… It staggers the mind! I guess the solution is to micro-manage every single thought and phrase that enters the minds of children, and restrict their every action to only what is defined by the self-righteous survivors of abuse as politically correct, right! Oh my sky, I’m glad I don’t know too many people like you all in real life, I’m glad most of my friends are not so absurdly overbearing and reactionary, and instead favor calmly thinking things through with a modicum of objectivity while being self aware enough to refrain from injecting themselves and their views into every aspect of their children’s lives.
I’ll tell you what is not okay for my youth – you self-righteous zealots discussing and deciding what is okay for my youth, that is what is not okay. In time you will find that you have got it all wrong. The most well adjusted children come from families which let them live and learn from their own mistakes. Let them experience life and form their own views, rather than trying to define what is and isn’t OK for them every step of the way… If I were your children – I would f-ing SNAP from your overbearing, control-freak, self-righteous, smothering love!
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Why don’t you take your big ego head, and shove it up your ass! You have no idea what you are talking about! Over bearing? Me? PLEASE! AND YES I can recommend what is good for kids! AND FYI, my daughter and sons are perfectly content with me! Why not take a long glance in the mirror, you douche! SERIOUSLY???? And this issue discussed in the original blog, by Queen of the Couch, is spot on, this DOES TOO lead to violent issues later in life! Let me guess, you were the little “innocent” school bully, who found it amusing to show “fondness” to a girl by pushing/hitting her! Right? Yeah, take your stupid, ridiculous comment, and shove it up your fat ass, right along with your egotistical, self centered, self righteous, “self esteem”! You have NO F****ING CLUE! You arrogant PRICK!!
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And letting children learn on their own, from their mistakes, is a serious, mis guided approach to what you apparently think is good parenting! LOL children don’t know what is right and wrong, and that’s why parents are to make decisions for them, and guide them to the right path! Keep up your “awesome” daddy skills, and see where the F**K it gets you! You sicken me! AND WHO ARE YOU TO comment on MY past? YOU HAVEN’T the slightest! You have a lot of learning to do (from your own abvious mistakes) before you ever attempt to be a parent! If I were your kids, I’d RUN FOR THE HILLS! That;’s your mistake, having kids, before you grasped the seriousness of violent behavior! GOOD LUCK! I pity those poor innocent little ones who have YOU to look up to! You are the scum, from which criminals are born, and from your poor choice of vocabulary, you are where brain cells go to die! Go smoke another joint! DUMB F**K!!!!
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I’m sorry Valerie but your response here is really scary – you are not a grown-up. You are emotionally a child, take a look at what you have written. And you obviously didn’t read my earlier post where I had explained that I was the victim of bullying in school though not for long. And I was actually beaten bloody by a girl while I did not fight back – because she liked me. You have no perspective but your methods of communication are deeply concerning. I almost think you are intentionally trying to prove my points with those replies… In any case, until you can calm down and put things into perspective, you lack the objectivity to make any real contribution to this discussion. You own personal abuse is not the issue here – and that is a discussion best had in place more appropriate to that subject. It is awfully ironic how incredibly abusive your written assault against me is. Could you be any more self-righteous? Could you be a little more full of hate and spite and rage? Could you be any more hypocritical.
I remember being physically attacked by a girls mother once when I was like 6. The little girl was a bully who took after her mother. Pushing and hitting and pulling our hair and spitting on us boys – but my brothers and I simply had to endure that because if we did not just let her have her way always, she would run and tell her mother who was absolutely horrible. Her mother was insanely over-protective of her daughter who she believed could do no wrong. In her mother’s eyes she was a darling little angel who would never harm a fly. Friends of the family – and my brothers and I absolutely dreaded their visiting (which was thankfully quite rare). I’m sure that little girl was quite happy with her mother as well, passive-aggressive, manipulative, self-righteous, dysfunctional family that they were.. Actually, thinking back now, her mother was a victim of domestic abuse by the father and a few years later she shot her husband – ok more power to her for that I guess (though I think she ended up doing time). But that was the bullying of a little girl who had serious issues which probably stemmed from her home life. Extreme cases like that are a whole different story and as such they have little bearing on the issues presented her which is focusing on the typical antics of average kids – not extreme cases where the real causes and the best courses of action are completely different then the way we should deal with kids.
Children rough-housing on the playground is not the same as physical and emotional abuse. Girls do it. Boys do it. Get over it. Saddling these innocent kids who are discovering their emotions with all your emotional baggage is far more liable to have adverse effects on the emotional development of these kids then any minor hardships they would typically encounter on the playground.
Saying that this leads to issues with abusive relationships later in life is incredibly irresponsible because you have absolutely no evidence to back that up (and no, your own personal experience is not evidence, it is isolated, subjective experience which is not necessarily indicative of any real trend in child development on a general level). It is just making half-baked assumptions and presenting them as if they have some kind of real basis other than pure speculation.
I think Notshawn said it far better and more concisely than I can so I’m just going to repeat Notshawn’s very insightful words of wisdom.
“The problem with activists of all stripes is that they don’t understand the capacity for grey areas. In the same way that abuse should not be tolerated, neither is it absolutely deplorable for someone to ever push physical or verbal boundaries of any kind with someone of the opposite sex… as adults, we understand this concept most of the time, in that we don’t just go around slapping everyone we know and/or like in the face, but have definitely been known to throw a half-hearted punch at our significant other if they say something that they also didn’t really mean and was half-funny.
It’s probably also worth noting that not every immature way that children have of relating feelings they don’t yet fully understand is a precursor for adult abusive choices and actions, much less “conditioning” for tolerating abusive relationships.
Also, nobody “deserves” respect and love in this world, we are called to offer it regardless… That’s what makes this post so hard to read… it’s taking self-righteous indignation, clothing it in sarcasm, and telling people that nobody but themselves matters, and that there is no room for grace, even for children who don’t know better. And that the best response is, apparently, to write the boy off as a “little asshole”? That’s the lesson for your kids?
Sigh.”
Well said Notshawn!
And with that I will be gone from here – as an adult, I have no desire to further subject myself to the sort of extremely abusive dialogue Valerie seems prone to. I will leave her to vehemently bash on me to her hearts content further in my absence. I think she may have some serious aggression she needs to work out.
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Of course you think my response is “scary” You did after all, get beat up by a girl!!!! LOL
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these were your words: ” We SHOULD all teach our sons and daughters that ANY sort of violent behavior, and inappropriate physical contact is UNACCEPTABLE, ”
it sounded nice but now i understand that you meant we should teach our sons not to be violent and our daughters not to accept violence. but boys who get beat up? especially by girls? that’s facking HIGH-larious! smmfh
(so ultimately queen of the couch, as i was struggling with in my initial response, it isn’t your post so much as this type of bs that i see all the damned time.)
just how it is valerie that you or anyone else thinks that you can teach a boy to show respect whilst simultaneously teaching him not to respect himself. how we think we are going to give up girls traditional peace-making at all cost but at the same time demand that boys just “be a man about it” no matter the circumstance.
if a girl beat up one of your sons would you really ridicule him. sure fire way to send him on a path of being abused by himself and/or others. especially since boys are most often told not to hit a girl under any circumstances.
if you can stomach it – go tell your sons that they deserve to receive as well as give respect. even if they are males.
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I think it’s a bunch of over-sensitive nonsense. Females stay in abusive relationships because they’re idiots. What’s worse is, that after all this talk about educating kids to treat one another with respect, it never changes. Kids are mean, and ignorant, and most parents care not to teach them how to respect one another. Instead of blogging on your couch, take this shit into your next PTO meeting, and make it mean more than aimless garble destined for nowhere.
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“…Females stay in abusive relationships because they’re idiots….”
Strictly speaking that’s not a reason, that an assertion. You would need to explain WHY females are idiots. That is unless you mean that being female makes one an idiot, but you’d still need to qualify that assertion with imperial data (and presumably clear away the empty pizza boxes and beer cans to make space on the table for such extensive research).
“…What’s worse is, that after all this talk about educating kids to treat one another with respect, it never changes…..”
The talk is ongoing, the changes are gradual.
“….Kids are mean, and ignorant, and most parents care not to teach them how to respect one another……”
Adults are mean (illegal wars, greed, corruption, genocide, lies, exploitation for profits, abuse of women and children etc). Kids are only reflecting back what they see in the adult world. All the more reason for adults to treat each other (and kids) with respect and to keep discussing these issues to help increase everyone’s awareness.
“….Instead of blogging on your couch, take this shit into your next PTO meeting, and make it mean more than aimless garble destined for nowhere…..”
You seem to have a very ‘either / or’ mindset. Why not both? Also I bet this blog has had 10’s of thousands of hits and each hit has provoked further discussion and thought (as evidenced by many of the comments). It’s all good right?
In summery, your comment is clearly an *emotional reaction* (ie discomfort) to this whole subject which you disguise (very badly I have to say) as a set of assertions and rational arguments. Maybe you need to work through some of your own shit instead of trying to bring down other people.
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Thank you! I didn’t even know where to begin with that one.
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wow. I find it incredibly interesting that you moderate the comments on your blog- more proof you are a totally weak, insecure person. Good luck.
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You got me! If you read the comments, you can see I only approve the positive comments. I’ve deleted threats and spam. Everyone else has been approved.
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“….threats and spam…”
QofC you’ve made a lot of people very angry with your filth and you’d better watch out if you know what I mean….
…… that’s why you should order “101 tips on staying alive in a world full of raving internet nutters’ – it’s only 29.99 and if you order before the end of the month you get a free ipod thrown in too!
Sorry – couldn’t resist! 😉
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Sign me up! There are a shit ton of crazy fuck nuts living on the internetz!
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I didn’t include threats or spam, I included a blog entry with an opposing view. That seems like something you aren’t interested in hearing. Enjoy your praises, it must be so hard to listen to everyone telling you how wonderful you are all day without giving anyone a chance to describe an opposing view. I would be happy to copy and paste my blog entry in your comments section if you think I am “spamming” you.
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If you posted nothing but a link, it would appear to be spam. You can keep saying that I haven’t taken any criticism but it would only indicate your inability to read.
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Thank you so much for this post. I do not have children on my own (yet), but I’ve been working with them and I’ve got a bunch of little cousins. I totally agree with every fuckin’ word you wrote because I definetely do not want the children I’ve been working with or my little cousins or my baby nephew or any other child to think that it’s normal or even cool to punch into someones face (or the other way round to be punched). Damn, it’s not and there should be more moms like you.
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Love this.
I was thinking about this just a couple days ago, and that the boy who stole my flip flop in junior high so I had to go barefoot half the day? Probably did NOT have a crush on me. Such a stupid phenomenon in our culture. Does that happen in other cultures???
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This is amazing. Thank you so much. It eally is no wonder that women are socialized to be in abusive relationship, and it’s so sad that this is passed off as affectionate behaviour for both boys and girls. I don’t doubt that there are so boys that then hurt little girls because they want them to know that they like them and heard this was the best or easiest way.
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http://www.momsarepeople2.blogspot.com if you feel as though you may want to try to handle some criticism.
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It seems to me that you want to capitalize on the popularity of this blog and poach some views. Your motives are way too obvious, since you are more than welcome to comment right here and be as critical as you want. Plenty of people have given me scathing criticism. Maybe it’s you that can’t handle the heat, since you want to “take it to another room”, so to speak.
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Sadly, this “It means he likes you” happens everywhere. I’m brazilian and I’ve heard it a lot when I was a child/young woman. Soap operas also stigmatized abusive behavior towards women like passion and love.
To the ones that think we are overreacting: empathy it’s free and doesn’t hurt to try.
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No problem, my blog post is as follows:
(S)mothering your children is messing up my Chi.
Now, I’m not one to rip apart someone’s opinions… oh wait. Yes I am. Stupid people make me so angry, and in particular, other parents. It is common practice lately to completely smother your child; everyone is special, everyone is a winner, and every child needs to be treated in such a politically correct manner that we are going to raise a class of entitled, whiny robots who want the world handed to them on a silver platter…. still living with Mommy and Daddy who make their lunches before work every day.
What sparked this rant? A blogger entitled “Views from the Couch”.. she wrote an entire article found here called “You didn’t thank me for punching you in the face” It depicts a sweet little rant exclaiming that we are vicious monsters for allowing little boys show their affection for little girls by tugging on their hair, pushing them, etc. She basically said that by allowing any type of teasing whatsoever to go on, we are allowing our daughters to be raised as a tolerant of physical abuse, and prime them to be in abusive relationships. Get your ass off the couch, lady.
(Picutre of cartoon little boy)
You.little.bastard.
There is a serious difference between PHYSICAL ABUSE and a little teasing on the playground. SUCK it UP, please. What you are preparing your daughter to be is an adult size whiny brat, just like you. Teach your kid to stand up for herself, and stand on her own two feet, then maybe she won’t still be living with you on her 40th birthday. Maybe we should take away fairy tales too, they just teach our little girls that they are helpless and worthless until they find their prince. Oh right, fairy tales are actually just stories to tell our children to give them a little freaking hope, the belief that everyone can have a happy ending, and that miracles do freakin happen. We are such monsters.
(Picture of Disney Princesses)
You demeaning bitches. You are everything wrong with the world.
I’m going to go read both of my darling daughters a princess bedtime story, and watch the magic twinkle in their big eyes, and give them hope that they can have an amazing story of their own. I am also going to teach them how to kick a little boy in the balls.
Sweet dreams ❤
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OH NOOOOOZ! Another person on the interwebz don’t agree with me and called me namez! I so sad.
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@Momsarepeople2
I tried to leave this as a comment on your blog but it wouldn’t accept it (blogspot seems to hate wordpress). So I’m leaving it as a reply here instead (if QotC approves such a ridiculously long comment as this). Anyway FWIW….
RE: Disney Princesses / indoctrination of children
Have you ever, you know, done any actual research into Disney (both the man and the ’empire’)? Are you aware of Disney’s links to CIA, freemasons, the military industrial complex? (with many of its rides openly sponsored by military industrial corporations)
I doubt you’ve ever read any of the books and interviews by ex-employees of Disney. Their accounts tend to be disturbing to say the least. As are the accounts of the MK Ultra trauma based mind control sex slaves who talk about being taken to Disney theme parks to be programmed / abused in its infamous underground tunnels and rooms. But of course Disney has the clout to keep such information well away from the mainstream media/ public consciousness, not least because Disney OWNS much of the media and its membership of the CFR makes it part of the so called ‘elite’. In fact as many people have pointed out only powerful ‘mafia’ type organisations can maintain the kind of squeaky clean public image which Disney has managed to maintain over many decades.
Disney propaganda and indoctrination of the youth is really no more a ‘conspiracy’ than corporate advertising is a ‘conspiracy’. We can all accept that TV adverts are scientifically crafted by psychologists to make us feel and behave a certain way, yet start talking about Disney / Hollywood doing the same thing to children and you will get called a loony!
It’s a known fact that the the Pentagon has its own department devoted to re-working Hollywood movie scripts in return for free use of (taxpayer funded) military hardware and personnel (it’s called the ‘film liaison dept’ I think). The Pentagon publicly admit scripting movies like ‘Top Gun’ from top to bottom to use as recruitment propaganda (Vietnam had brought home the reality of war and they needed to reprogram a new generation to view war as heroic). In fact when ‘Top Gun’ was first released in the 80’s they actually put recruitment booths in the cinema foyers. It worked extremely well. No doubt many teenagers signed up because they also felt ‘the need for speed’ and wanted to bed a girl like Kelly McGillis after landing their fighter jet. I wonder how many of these eager recruits eventually ended up dead, limbless, PTSD’d, homeless and alchoholic from the illegal wars in the middle east. My point being that military propaganda works!
It would be extremely naive (to say the least) to think that Disney with its military industrial connections and funding was not also involved in propagandising to the masses (especially the young). I believe some political person once said that Donald Duck did more to promote the public acceptance of income tax than anyone else (Donald Duck cartoons were shown to ‘educate’ the public about income tax). The propaganda power of Disney cartoons was so powerful it was even copied by the Nazis.
Before talking about Disney Princesses let’s talk about the Mickey Mouse club. Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera, Justin Timberlake, Miley Cyrus etc were all Disney child stars. Because the entire corporate media and sponsors endorse these people (and others like them) the general public rarely questions having women like Spears as role models for their kids. We know Spears is at least suffering from Dissociative Identity Disorder, and may well be a victim of trauma based mind control. But we are taught to accept our ‘stars’ having ‘breakdowns’ shaving their heads, saying they’re fed up with “people plugging stuff into me and touching me” and going into ‘rehab’ and then emerging within weeks and appearing on stage in a leather bikini with a vacant look in their eyes. Switching personalities is normal behaviour apparently (see also Anna Nicole – mushroom trip my ass! That’s a child altar personality clear as day).
Millions of people work far harder than music/ movie stars and they don’t have mental breakdowns or multiple personalities. And if normal people do have mental breakdowns requiring hospitalisation it usually takes YEARS to recover and results in a complete change of lifestyle/ career. Something is obviously GOING ON – but over decades we have all been conditioned to view it as somehow normal (and even view the menta breakdown of ‘our celebs’ as another form of entertainment). The bottom line is that Hollywood (et al) is a cult!
The Disney formula for corrupting little kiddies and turning them into consumer monster whores is so blatant, yet few ever stop and think about it. These Disney child stars start out all cute, pink and sparkly building up a legion of obsessed fans. Moms love them because they think they are all wholesome and innocent. Little girls are encouraged to fill their lives with a zillion branded products until their bedrooms become like shrines to their Disney idols. Then, as soon as they all hit adolescence these Disney idols are forced to become skanky whores overnight, causing a whole army of little pink princess fans (and their little sisters) to do the same. From then on being a girl is defined in terms of material stuff (consumerism), whorish appearance and general pulling power over boys and little else. And this is all achieved before they’ve probably even had their first period. By the time these women reach their 30’s and start ageing they freak out and start pumping silicone into their butts/ face/ breasts… Motherhood is viewed as an inconvenience and the concept of the wise old grandmother/ crone has been wiped out completely. In the cult of celebrity (and royalty) once a woman has produced an heir and is past 30 she is expendable. Many celeb/ royal princesses are indeed ritually sacrificed.
These days music videos featuring the likes of Cyrus, Spears, Aguilera, GaGa, Beyonce etc ROUTINELY show girls being felt up, dehumanised, tortured, murdered, tied up, set on fire, used in or conducting occult/ satanic rituals…. and all to the soundtrack of danceable, catchy pop music….. I mean come on! This is hard core cognitive dissonance – a psychological concept too sophisticated for most adults to understand, let alone teenagers and children! Do you actually think these girls make up the ideas for their own videos and stage shows?
And yes Disney fairy tales follow the same kind of formula. It’s called ‘Princess/ Warrior Programming’. Here’s a video which discusses this programming in more detail (and lots more besides):
Wash Your Brain – Hollywood Mind Control (Part 1)
Wash Your Brain – Hollywood Mind Control (Part 2)
You probably think this is all very paranoid…… All I can say is this: would you let some random stranger off the street into your home to read stories to your children (perhaps in their bedroom) hour after hour after hour …and in doing so teach them how to view the world, themselves, their bodies, their relationships, their parents, how to dress, how to behave!!!???…..
Most parents would NOT allow a stranger to get exclusive access to their children’s minds for hours each day. Yet when we sit them in front of Disney, or a Hollywood movie or MTV that is EXACTLY what we are doing. Except they are not even random strangers… the people running the entertainment/ mass media industries are heartless, cold blooded, corporate executives, freemasonsand god-only-knows-what-else and the whole industry is known to be connected to the military industrial complex. Thanks to the hijacking of the women’s lib movement millions of parents are now unable to stay at home to devote the time needed to raise their own children – and so the state, daycare and Disney/ Hollywood/ MTV gets to bring them up and instil their values in them instead, which is exactly what they want. Cue the rise in depression, anxiety, eating disorders, low self esteem, ADHD, social breakdown, violence blah blah blah….
The breakdown of the family and society in general is good business for the state AND corporations. Brainwashed people make better citizens and unhappy/ neurotic people make better consumers!
It really is that simple.
The TV will never teach us about the workings of the industry which creates the stuff that gets put on TV! LOL Why would it?! (And if the industry ever did make a documentary about the industry we would be idiots to believe it).
If the masses ever understood the true ‘programming power’ of TV (and movies/ music) it would shatter the illusion (the ‘magic’). Program makers AND advertisers rely on us viewing the TV/ movies purely in terms of entertainment, rather than the truth which is that it’s the most powerful mass mind control device ever invented. Only powerful drugs can rival TV’s ability to make us stare straight ahead for hours at a time, losing all sense of our immediate surroundings. This doesn’t make TV (or drugs) automatically ‘bad’ – it just means they are very, very powerful. To have a few corporations effectively controlling what’s on the TV, is no less alarming than if they mass drugged the nation every evening and whispered into our ears while we were all in a stupor! 😉
This website gives a pretty good insight into who/ what runs the mass entertainment industries – LINK
It’s depressing how quickly you pour scorn on a mother’s wisdom and upbringing skills (ie the views presented in this blog), while unquestioningly feeding your children Disney/ Hollywood crap without knowing anything about where it comes from.
End of rant.
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Wow. Just wow. I feel like this blog and its fans are in a twilight zone.. I seriously fear for the adults you people will be releasing into the world.
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@Momsarepeople2
‘….Wow. Just wow. I feel like this blog and its fans are in a twilight zone…..”
Of course you do 😉
Encountering new information and new ideas almost always feels strange, foreign and disconcerting at first – absolutely! People who said the earth was flat or women were equal to men were once treated as ‘crazies’ and mocked, ridiculed, ostracised and persecuted as a result.
Likewise people today who say it’s not healthy for adults to hit children – or children to hit each other – are generally treated as nut bars too. As are people who ask valid questions about the true agendas of youth ‘programming’ created by the likes of the giant faceless corporations of Hollywood/ Disney/ MTV etc.
So most of us were all brought up to believe teasing/ bullying was to be tolerated, the belt was an acceptable punishment for children and Disney was as wholesome as apple pie etc etc. Now some of us are questioning these things…… “wooooooo”…..
“…. I seriously fear for the adults you people will be releasing into the world….”
I suspect what you really fear is new ideas that threaten your outdated values and attitudes. I suspect you just fear change and anyone who represents that change. Again this is quite normal.
Evolution IS hard work and requires a lot of serious thinking and doing……. and this is very hard to accomplish in an uptight state of mind. Maybe you should learn to loosen up … and swear a bit more? 😉
Right now the world/ society is changing more in one decade than it used to change over the course of centuries or even millennia. Anyone NOT swearing right now is going to feel at a loss for fucking words 🙂
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This isn’t some radical new idea! No one is swept away in disbelief because they cant handle it. This is nothing more than a helicopter mom who doesnt have the skills to handle her OWN feelings about her child being in a childhood conflict…and who can not handle the fact that sometimes, yes sometimes it is better to teach a child to move on that to wallow in self pity…or live in fear of a non threat. I also worry for the needy unpreprared adults you all are raising. Sometimes the boys do like you and dont handle it well..and sometimes the boys just dont like you and you move on. the point is to teach the children to handle the behavior without escalating the problem…not how well you teach them to nick pick the words.The sadest part is a lot of damaged people who lack the skill to navigate adult relationships will latch onto this as some sort of excuse as to why they were and/or are abused. This is no more telling a child to accept abuse than it is telling them to fly to the moon. Its telling them to move on. In fact, moving on is what adults in abusive relationships need to do. If your focused on blaming the person who was trying to console the children and end the situation your focused on the wrong person. AND I would be willing to be 99% of the time someone says “…he likes you…”the next line is” go find someone else to play with.”
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“Just move on”? What a joke. There’s no escaping bullies at school. More needs to be done than the passive “ignore them and walk away” approach that doesn’t solve anything. Kids can’t just leave an abusive relationship the way adults can because they are trapped in schools with the bullies – mandated to go to a place where bullies are waiting for them. I feel like you never experienced true bullies or truly passive adults. I’m talking trip you on concrete so your arms get ripped up in the fall, lock you in cabinets so you can’t get out, drag you out of the playground screaming for a good round of kicking type of bullies. They don’t care about niceties and you can’t escape from them because of the very nature of school. You’re in class, they’re in class, and they know where you are. Kids need to be taught to fight back – not just the “walk away” spiel that never works, and bullies need to be stopped by adults. Only twice did my parents intervene – when I had serious scrapes and bruises. Never did the teachers ever do anything, even when they saw it right in front of their eyes and I asked them to do something. Children aren’t adults. They need to be taught and controlled.
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You are just adorable. Enjoy living in your little bubble, hope your kids turn out just as amazing as you.
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No worries, her kids are already on their way to that level of awesomeness.
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Great article. I feel naive to admit I never really thought about it like this before, but my thoughts will never be the same now. In school I was bullied by a boy. He made my school life miserable and I’d skip whenever I could to avoid facing mean people like him (there were more like him there). I was a shy kid, never hurt anyone, I was just an easy target. My mom read my diary how much this kid Scott was making me miserable and her reply was, “He probably likes you.” It was a cop out. It didn’t make me feel any better, and I didn’t believe her. I eventually left the school to get away.
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I have a 8 year old son that is harassed by a little girl. I bat shit crazy little girl. No one will do anything about it because he is a boy and she is a girl. It goes both ways. Do I think she “likes” my son. Maybe. Do I think this is any way to get attention? Hell to the no.
I just think schools and teachers are either a.) to over whelmed to deal with misbehaviour. b.) afraid of parents if they do anything about misbehaviour c.) don’t give a shit…or a combo of all of the above.
As a parent, we have to fight our childrens battles at school no days, which makes us the “scary” parents. No winning
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This article makes excellent points and I appreciate your writing it. I will certainly try to remember this if my grandchidren ever come to me with these issues. I do agree with the comments that have a problem with the language though. Maybe it’s more of a generational thing. But I think you could have made the same point without the four letter words – just like Adele could have made her displeasure known at the recent awards show without giving ‘the finger’.
It’s basic respect. Respect for our children and respect for the readers of the blog.
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I absolutely love this. Best blog post. Ever. Much deserved on the FP.
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Huge thanks!
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You are so right! It’s time we don’t put up with this crap excuse any longer. Every parent should teach there children this. I never believed it, but always accepted it. Not any longer! Thank you! S.O. – Netherlands
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Great article. In 7th grade, a boy was alternately nice and nasty to me. In 8th grade, he signed my yearbook that he only teased me because he liked me. I thought he was a total jerk. We dated on and off in college and post college, but I never totally trusted him, because he based our relationship on really mixed messages from the start. Now, 25+ years after 7th grade, you can bet he regrets teasing me back then. I married someone else…and he is still carrying a torch for me.
I get that boys that age don’t know how to process their feelings, but they need to be taught that being mean is never the right choice. They could live to regret it.
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Fabulous! The expression I abhor is “boys will be boys”. It’s been used to excuse everything from bullying to gang rape. I’m going to have my 14-year-old daughter and 12-year-old son read this blog. I think it will make for an interesting “teaching moment” with them. Thanks.
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Going viral! Also, while I acknowledge there is liberal use of profanity, this isn’t a blog anyone is being force to read! Leave the page if it offends you. I think the profanity expresses frustration that we (we being parents or those who have been told this ourselves) feel when we hear this BS spewed.
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What a nonissue, the schoolyard is where we are TAUGHT not to hit, this is where the behaviour presents itself and and where it will be delt with, and clearly it should be addressed primarily in the home. but so far as a boy callling a girl ugly and the teachers responce to say that the” boy likes her” i find much preferable to the truth. which would be to tell the girl that he really thinks shes ugly, I say spare little Suzi’s fellings . And Holly really “Boys will be boys” to defend gang rape I think not.
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Oh and as to the question of the proper language I offer a salaious and gratuitous FUCK .
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Wow, just WOW!! After reading the comments, I had to re-read the original rant, as I comprehended the point of the blog post and apparently gleaned over the supposed use of such “foul language”.
I am APPALLED by the fact anyone would deem the language as inappropriate but considers such [childhood] conduct as A-O-KAY. (Based solely on the emphatic responses regarding language only, with no regard to the actual meaning conveyed by the piece). The writer was not stating that a simple hair tug as a boy-ish form of affection was improper, but rather that a male physically assaulting a female (or people assaulting one another in general) should not be socially written off as tolerable behavior, regardless of age of the perpetrator. Did you people read-over the words “grabbed” and “forcibly”, or the fact that the school official brushed such flagrant actions off?! I’ve never once heard a mom exclaim “Oh, lil’ Matty Jr. punched me in arm last night… He must REALLY LOVE me! I can’t wait until he does it yet again, tomorrow!” And if any son/person were to do that & was taught to think it acceptable, we’d deem their parents as delinquents. Also, I believe some people missed the fact about said actions being against a 10 year old, not a toddler. You people realize that the legal ‘Age of Reason’ in the USA is defined as being around 7-8 years of age, right? These bullies are mentally capable of knowing & fully understanding of what they are doing. The writers’ summarized example of what is wrong – Boy likes Girl; Boy hits Girl; Girl is taught that that action is Exceptional. We should teach out children not to hit, because what is instilled during childhood becomes a reality as adults. Children learn via their senses & through repetition. We don’t want them to just follow the adage of ‘Monkey see, Monkey do.’ They need to know the ‘why’ behind things and that there are consequences to every action. But guess what, little unaware & uneducated kids hit each other, so we, as supposed ‘grown-ups’, need to reiterate that it is wrong, explain the ‘why’ part, and get to the root of the issue (oh, wait… males have emotional feelings too? And they don’t know how to express them? Is that taboo topic really allowed to be discussed out loud, openly, and in public no less?).
And the language utilized is ABSOLU-FUCKING-LUTELY suitable. To say that an educated society (which is lacking in some of these comments) portrays it as a lower form of communication is absurd. The use of the language is not only used in the proper context (hence me out right over looking it!) but it throws the pain & torment brought upon such a pre-pubescent child directly into the face of the adult reader (as witnessed by certain illicit responses to the same). It was meant to invoke an advanced understanding and reflection thereto, but sadly, society apparently isn’t as mature as once believed. The beyond aggressive act of bullying is in and of itself violent (whether physical, emotional, or mental), and the language to describe it should be as fitting in an attempt to drive the point home.
To those individuals who say ‘children need to learn to do things on their own’ (not sure if that means to defend oneself, or lack thereof), I guess yours are currently in the back yard pig-pen eating mud!?!?…Because you obviously wouldn’t provide them any sort of educated schooling, as that would involve teachers, who TEACH KIDS HOW TO LEARN (i.e. read, write, do math, act civil & maybe even coach our youth towards thinking independently – novel idea, I know!) NO CHILD LEARNS ON THEIR OWN. Adults (hopefully genuinely, accurately, and ethically) guide them all throughout the way, and if you’re really lucky, maybe even go beyond that.
And don’t even get me started on these dimwits who deem a parent protecting their child from deliberate & proven abuse as being [a(n)]: “bitch”, “cunt”, “feminist”, “lesbian”, “helicopter parent”, “pompous”, “uneducated”, “self-righteous”, “insane”, “hag”, “butch”, “neurotic”, “paranoid”, “overbearing”, “liberal”, dysfunctional, etc., etc., etc. (I got tired of recording all the negative undertones)… If you feel as such, please go STERALIZE yourselves!! I don’t want my tax dollars paying for you to afford & bring up your little monster demon spawn offspring.
I think this blog post, as well as all the comments (good, bad, & indifferent), was wonderful & thought provoking. I find the whole blog site very humorous & blunt, but more importantly, completely honest. I can’t wait to share it with my family, friends, & colleagues. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK DEAR QUEEN!!
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I’m going to name my wine glass after you.
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I have to say, that the entire premise of the post has been totally and completely lost throughout the comments section (which has provided me so much etnertainment)…bet you didn’t think you’re personal view on your blog would turn into this?! I find it insane and amazing what has happened on here. I personally love your post (as I stated before) and I feel that same way. I think too many people have taken your words way too literally and removed the actual context of what should be taken from it: Teach your daughters to stand up for herself when she’s being pushed around/bullied and not just accept the age old “oh he must like you” for an excuse. This article has been twisted into the following stances through the comments: an arguement over foul language and its’ innapropriate place on a personal blog, feminism, brainwashing, over parenting, disney characters, physical violence, bad parenting….do you see? I personally understand sattire and sarcasm, but I guess there are far more people who don’t. Do you really think Queen is going to go punch these kids in the face? Or the adults who may be involved? It’s called venting frustration before it does come to that. Is your issue that she called some nameless faceless kid an asshole? It’s called an opinion and again it’s venting. Do you scream and yell at someone who cuts you off when you’re driving, say maybe call them an asshole? Same idea (yes kids and drivers are different, but she didn’t walk up to this kid and call him an asshole). The difference is that she’s sharing her POV which is that she will not let her daughters accept some old school excuse for others pushing her kids around. Plain and simple. This isn’t about all the other drivel written here in the comments and sadly most people missed the point that maybe saying, “oh, little johnny pulled your hair; he must like you” is a dated excuse and could possibly be re-examined by most people…but again this is a personal blog and this is her personal parenting style and no one parent is right or wrong (unless you’re abusing/beating your kid mercilessly, then sorry you’re wrong).
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Well well well, just look at this mess of self-congratulatory squawking. Easy on the overcompensation, girls. You should know what that means; you use it on men often enough. I know you’re all excited about the turnout to the anti-bullying bandwagon, but your cart is pulling a dead horse. Not one of you understands the behaviour you condemn. Not fully, not beyond your stunted, self-righteous, ‘my child is the center of the universe’ moronic worldview. Go have another glass of wine to reward yourselves for being ‘good mothers’. Maybe when you sleep it off you’ll find that the world has altered itself to your exact specifications. If not, just read/write another indignant blog, and wait for the other cockeyed third-wave feminists to wander in open-mouthed to commence the validation orgy.
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These comments would make great material for a play, Mike Leigh style LOL
The scene: a dinner party (buffet style) with guests wandering in and out and QofC as hostess of course. Try re-reading some of the comments giving them the most appropriate accents and look.
………. Or maybe an opera?! 😉
(Libretto by Tits McGee ©)
“Well well well!!!
Just look at this mess of self-congratulatory squaw-king.
Easy on the overcompensation, girls.
You should know what that means; you use it on men often enough.”
(And so on….)
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I want to attend a validation orgy, I just don’t know what to wear!
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Wow love your message, and very good point!
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I completely agree with you that this behaviour in boys should not be excused or explained away in this way, and that giving girls this message is completely out of line.
I don’t, however, agree with you that if a boy does this it means he’s an asshole.
My son is one of those children who’ll punch others in an attempt to relate to them. He does this because he is autistic and this seriously affects his social development and understanding. He’s no more an asshole for doing this than a toddler would be for doing the same thing. He’s a child who is genuinely not equipped to understand why what he is doing is wrong. He is not an asshole; he is a child with a disability.
This does not mean that it would be at all appropriate for us simply to shrug our shoulders and let it go. It means that writing him off as an asshole is not the right thing to do, from either his point of view or that of the children whom he might punch (because dismissing him as an asshole is not doing one blind thing more to solve the problem than ‘Oh, he’s got a crush on her’ would). What we should be doing, and what we *are* doing, is to teach him proper behaviour. I mean that literally, not ironically. He needs to have it explained to him and regularly reinforced that we don’t hit people, we shake their hands or smile at them or give them a hug if we know them well. So this is what we do, and it’s working.
Of course, most of the boys doing this won’t be autistic or otherwise developmentally disabled (though some will, and you won’t necessarily be able to pick them out from the others just from seeing them in the playground). But most of them have simply never been taught that you don’t behave in this way, and it *isn’t* a realisation that necessarily comes automatically. The teachers involved are shirking their responsibilities to the hitter as well as the hittee when they dismiss this behaviour instead of teaching better behaviour.
The correct answer to “Oh, he probably has a crush on you” is an icily polite “Ma’am, my daughter was not worried about his motivations; she was worried about having to endure the experience of having her own property physically snatched off her arm. Now, what plans do you have for teaching this boy that this is not an appropriate way to behave?” And I’ll back you all the way in saying that, or alternatively in your original suggestion of slapping them in the face and assuring them it’s purely an expression of your affection. But don’t call the kids who act that way assholes or jerks. One of them is my kid, and, had you happened to have an autistic child or even just a normal immature little boy, one of them might have been yours.
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While I agree with everything you’ve written, your argument is weakened by your use of vulgar language. You’re obviously a good writer; why do you find it necessary to use words that will prevent such an important message from being more widely shared?
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Great post, thank you!
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I’m a new reader and admirer. I think I found my way to your blog from another blogger. I read your most recent two posts and was very curious so I started at the beginning (July 2011) and was thoroughly captivated by your insights, wit and humor. Your language is your business and I don’t find it off-putting at all. In fact, I think it helps illustrate the points you are making. I must confess that I didn’t read all of the comments in response to this blog entry but I read enough to get a flavor about the criticisms. There seems to be strong current of other people imposing their will on you which of course is puzzling considering that they opted to voluntarily come to and read your blog. I think this particular entry is one of the most cogent expressions of the dichotomy of responses that boys and girls receive to harassment and violence.
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Thanks to you!
I can’t help but laugh at those that want to wag their proverbial finger at me for my language and expect me to hang my head in shame and “clean it up”. “Puzzling” is the perfect word to describe that train of thought. 🙂
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I came here through Break it down Pete’s place…always a great read;)
I must say, my g-dau had this problem at the same age, my son told her not to ever let anyone disrespect her. She heard all the same things you spoke of by others, “it means he likes you”. She didn’t like it and told him so many times. Anyway, my son told her to smack him back next time! She did the next time he pushed and gave her arm a slug, she punched and fought until he was down on the ground saying he was sorry!!! Well, she was stopped by a teacher, suspended from school and the other parents were (especially the father) were furious with my son. I did not agree with my son at the time…LOL although now days I do.
I think it was what he deserved since she put up with his bullying for months!
Bottom line is this behavior is not acceptable by boys or anyone, ever.
Kudos to you!!!
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Kudos to you and your son for being good parents 😉
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My father was once told by a school board member that “She (meaning me his at the time 10 yo daughter) must like being hit or she wouldn’t keep making (bully) mad.”
Dad’s response came from his lawyer. It explained that if the bullying didn’t stop right then we would be pressing Criminal charges against the boy (assault), his father (old Texas law about not controlling your child), and the district administration (failure to protect a child, failure to report child abuse). We would also be suing the boy’s family and the district on civil charges.
That boys will be boys and we can’t do anything about it stuff stopped on a dime. It made a lasting impression 6 years later my 2nd cousin was being harassed. His parents got the same “boys will be boys” nonsense plus some he needs to man up (but if he fights them he will be suspended) nonsense. Until the school secretary overheard his parents having a conversation with my Mom about a sick relative. After Cousins parents left the secretary asked if we were related. Mom told them yes that Cousin’s Dad was my Dad’s 1st cousin. Secretary disappeared into the principal’s office. Cousin’s parents came home to a message that the other boys had been suspended and to please let them know if there was any more problems. I guess they figured our cousins would also threaten criminal and civil action.
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LOVE THIS SO DAMN TRUE!!!
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Awesome stuff. Needed this!
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As a young girl I was told, “He probably did that because he likes you and doesn’t know how to show it appropriately. Make sure you tell him when he makes you uncomfortable, and if he doesn’t apologize I want to know about it.” My dad, the best assertiveness coach in the WORLD.
Fast forward to college, and while walking a quiet thoroughfare on my way to perform my senior recital some creep on a bike comes up behind me, pinches my ass and stops to look at me and see what I’ll do. Holler at him, that’s what. And he freaked out and rode away. Yay. I told my roommate’s mother this after the recital was over and she smiled happily at me and said “How flattering for you! What a nice pick-me-up before your big performance!” And she wasn’t being all ’90s ironic, either.
Emotional maturity is a tricky thing-at 8 I expect my daughter to tell people when they are doing something that makes her feel bad, and I am lucky that she also feels she can tell me and that she has a supportive school environment besides. When people are jerks they are not~always~ out to get you, something that helps me stay calm as I clearly define my limits.
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I remember being told this as a child. Then in later years I remember my mother telling me “You don’t hit people, but if someone hits you you lay their asses out flat”. This came from my mother after she left my father for abusing her. Makes a lot of sense now. Too bad she learned so late in life not to take shit from people.
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I agree with ED. The message is very good, but unfortunately the language is not something I would want a young person to use, so therefore I do not believe in using it myself. You have a very strong message, but I do feel if your children listen to that type of language,somewhere,some place, some how, there will be a price to pay. Use your energy to educate all youngsters on what is abuse and how to love others.
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This article is for adults, especially parents, not for their children. And while I do not agree with such language either, the blogger is still right as ever in the point she made.
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Have you seen “He’s just not that into you”? this is the same concept that opens the movie. Valid point
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Nice article. Also, it is time that we start teaching our daughters that is it NOT OK to hit boys for ANY REASON.
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So your saying you want children to show kindness and compassion with eachother but you have no problem becoming hostile and angry and even threatening violence on your posts if that doesn’t happen. I’m confused.
On another note. Don’t kid yourself. Girls are no better out there on the playground. My three boys have endured everything from name calling to physical abuse to cheating on tests by little girls who claim to have crushes on them (and if you think it gets explained away on your daughter, try having your son be asked what he did to deserve it!). It only gets worse because once they get into high school my young men will endure girls liking them and then dating someone else and then telling that new boyfriend all about my son so that jealousy reigns supreme and his ass will get kicked. It’s happened and it will continue to happen unless every parent decides to teach their children how to play nice.
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Another person that doesn’t grasp satire and hyperbole. Awesome.
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I grasp that you hide behind satire as a passive aggressive avenue to express what you believe to be true so that you don’t have to take responsibility for where those really big emotions are really coming from.
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it’s only satire and hyperbole after you get called on it, though.. not before
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Reblogged this on attkliveandenjoyyourlife and commented:
Like it!!! Need to teach ‘hot boy’ how to be gentle
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oh yeahhhhhhasasasasasa
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Brilliaantnt
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I couldn’t agree more! Individuals who are offended by her use of language should focus on the content of the message. I thinks it is absurd that someone is passionately expressing themselves (with a very important message) and they focus on “use of language” You mean to tell you have never stubbed a toe or whacked and elbow and quickly cursed under your breath? He who has not sinned, cast the first stone…those who throw stones without self reflection of their own guilt I have a message…May the stone you lift be to big to much to bear and drop on your head!
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I completely agree as your lines reminded of the opening scene of “He’s Just Not That Into You”. Thank you for validating reasons as to why there are many difficulties in the ways we socialize our genders, and the many issues it leads to (as I’m sure I too need to learn healthier behavior from men, and that it’s NOT okay for bullies to express themselves as arses just because they feel like being an arse). Now if only we could teach your parenting style to others 😉
😀
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Totally agree!
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i never thought of it that way. when i was little lots of boys would tease me and punch me. much like what you said. and of course everyone told me that it meant he liked me. i remember thinking “well if he likes me then why is he hurting me?” telling young girls its just because they like you is teaching them being abused is ok and that we should just put up with it because “they love us”. when i have children i am going to make sure they don’t think that way. the last thing i want is my future daughter to be married to some asshole because someone told her its ok that just means he likes you.
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As a child at aged 10, I was often beaten and mocked at by the boys in my elementary school. I came home with scratches and bruises all over my arms and face, and my parents never really took me seriously because they said boys will be boys, “playing rough”! Mom and Dad, this post’s for you.
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Peacemonger told me that most of your fans are pathetic and that you are damaging your reader’s fragile psyches with your victim-centric mentality. He is being reactionary and exaggerating, yet I think his comment is not without some degree of validity.
Sparrow Flailer suggested that you are the abuser – that you are inflicting traumatic notions of being victimized and of being abusive upon what would have otherwise been perfectly healthy childhood development. She said that children each develop differently but that when you throw their normal stages of natural development under a lens of grown-up psychobabble and ask them to confront that you are going to seriously screw up their development (and doing the same thing but dumbing the terms down for the kids is just going to be even worse for them). She did also note though, that there may be a small number of cases where there may be real cause for concern but those cases are hardly what the article here was about, and the number of self-defined victim parents posting here is cause for far greater concern. Yet she cautions that victim parents should take great care not to force their own children to be victims, but also not to force them to over-compensate. Sadly she says that there is no easy way to explain any of this to victim parent because victim parents usually become insanely self-righteous.
Antlion told me that everyone single one of the comments here are by people who have serious mental issues, also implying that boys will be boys is exactly as true as girls will be girls and that the author here was merely starved for validation, along with most of the commentators.
My daughter Abbey (8) said she didn’t care about this nonsense. She said sometimes boys hit her or pulled her hair, but she didn’t really care. She said they were just stupid boys and they hit like sissy’s anyway. She also said that she would kick their ass if they tried to really hurt her and she couldn’t get away easily. They fight with each other all the time and some girls are just as mean too. Abbey has been practicing kung fu since she was 4 (~4 years) so she is pretty confident but she has also learned that petty violence is not worth responding to because the kind of violence she is capable of unleashing is on a whole different level. I don’t feel any need to change her perspective on this. I think she is right that she shouldn’t care about this BS – it is just adult mind games – and kids have enough mind games among their social dynamics already, without having to heap a bunch of adult mind games onto them as well. Teach your kids to think for themselves, then let them do so…
Oh yeah, Pandora laughed and said “fucking pussies, where’d I leave that tiny violin”. If one of you wanted to come and bitch at her about her son, she said “they could just take it up with Benta (her son) directly, and he would teach them a lesson they wouldn’t soon forget”! hehe – she’s cool and I bet Benta really would teach you a thing or two…
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don’t even know how I ended up here, but I thought this post was good. I do not know who you are but definitely you’re going to a famous blogger if you are not already Cheers!
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IT GOES BOTH WAYS!
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I wrote down several arguments, but all I really want to say is that you are entitled to your opinion. But I still hate you. For whatever reason my gut instinct was when I read this article to make you feel like shit. I don’t know why I felt that way, but I did, and I do. I think its because I found out about this page from when I was facebook stalking an ex friend who was also the first peer in my adult life to physically assault me. Or maybe it was because you are telling your child violence is wrong all the while talking about how you want to beat the shit out of everyone. Maybe because I read yet ANOTHER “feminist” article talking about how little white girls need to be protected from mean boys who bully them, and neglecting to raise any awareness of men in abusive relationships, and maybe pondering how a woman can be raised to become abusive to their partners. Maybe I’m bitter, or irrational, or need to stop facebook stalking people. Either way, you made me depressed and angry, and ashamed to be a woman. I don’t blame you, but I still don’t like you, sorry.
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Try some time on the couch, or maybe you could just “get a grip”. Really? I say, get off the computer and quit stalking people on facebook and go deal with YOUR issues. Misplacing them onto others is not a valid reason, nor does it make you right. I’m sorry that someone hurt you. And that is genuine. Lots of people have been hurt in their lives. Don’t take what’s happened to you and blame it on Views from the Couch. That’s a bit ridiculous. That being said, I wish you the best and hope you find a way to deal with your troubles.
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My thoughts exactly! It was a bit comical and a bit disturbing that someone stumbled upon this blog, while FB stalking an ex friend, and wanted to express her hatred of me. I mean, are you fucking kidding? I disagree with people’s opinions all the time, even vehemently, and don’t hate the person. If you hate someone, especially someone you have never met, over a different point of view, you probably have some issues to work out.
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I love this and I have told writer of this blog that. If that makes me crazy, nutters, insane, psycho or whatever label you want to put on me (and her) then fine. It seems that so many people missed the point of this. I read some of these comments and all I can picture are these angry buzzing bees swarming in for the attack. Who knew this would spark so much emotion from people? I think it’s interesting that those of us who like and agree with the writer are nuts, yet I have read some very disturbing replies. Far more disturbing then a mother who cusses openly and speaks her mind on her own blog. Geesh what was she thinking with that one? I don’t understand why that sparks your animosity and hatred. I don’t think that she deserves to have someone make disturbing and filthy comments about her or her family. Yet, her sharing this blog makes her nuts? I think some people must be living without mirrors in their homes.
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You should have seen the replies that I deleted.
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You guys can talk about this stuff all you like, but until you put actions to it, these words are meaningless opinions locked in your heads that only serve as equally meaningless banter between people afraid to take action.
If you support or don’t like this, then stop talking and do something about it.
This world is based upon people who take action, not people who just wag their tongues uselessly about it.
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TL:DR
or
For the people who couldn’t really grasp what this lady had to say in this post.
She really hates bullies and doesn’t give a damn about people gawking and getting butthurt over her use of language.
and also
I LOVE YOU QUEENOFTHECOUCH ❤ AND I WILL EXPRESS THIS EMOTION IN KISSES AND HUGS. (no violence)
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TL:DR
or
For the people who couldn’t really grasp what this lady had to say in this post.
She really hates bullies and doesn’t give a damn about people gawking and getting butthurt over her use of language.
and also
I LOVE YOU QUEENOFTHECOUCH ❤ AND I WILL EXPRESS THIS EMOTION IN KISSES AND HUGS. (no violence)
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Haha! Thank you and I return your nonviolent affection! XOXOX
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See I wish I had someone telling me this stuff when I was young, because when I was in Elementary school, I was bullied something terrible. It didn’t stop at scratches, punches, and belongings being stolen, it went much much farther then that. I was stabbed with a pencil in my leg during lesson, choked until I passed out with the strings on my jacket, knocked off the monkey bars by my fingers being crushed by them purposely stomping on them with their foot, and worst of all beaten in the head repeatedly with a baseball while my attacker laughed maliciously and pinned me down so I was unable to protect my face. This all left me with an ingrained fear of men, and dents in my skull, and a scar on my face that will never go away. I cannot even hug my father without having a panic attack.
If I had not been taught “boy’s will be boys” and been told to “toughen up” when my male cousins picked on me (far more innocent teasing mind you, they never went further then indian burns and pushing me down when they got mad), I would have gone to my mother about the matter. I felt I had to tough it out. Even so I had finally gone to a teacher and been told the same thing your daughter was told, “he probably has a crush on you” and again the statement that always infuriates me to no end “boy’s will be boys”.
If I ever have a daughter of my own, I will never let someone tell her that.
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I’m so sorry that you went through all of that. 😦
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I hadn’t given this any thought until I read this. I may need to learn more to completely form an opinion on this matter, but i totally see your point, respect it, and agree
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So many of the people on here, especially the author, are idiots.
At a young age boys don’t understand their feelings, they just know they feel like paying more attention to whatever little girl they’re crushing on and they act out because they don’t know how else to act towards that person. At that age girls have cooties and they don’t want to hang out with them so the excess attention results in pulling of hair and teasing and such. Yes the children should be taught that it isn’t acceptable but they shouldn’t be called assholes or treated as violent or mean, they just don’t yet understand and they ned to be taught. Anyone who thinks that they are troublemakers or that they are doing it because they like abusing girls is an absolute moron and should really think before they speak in such a way.
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At 5 or 6 it’s understandable in my opinion. 10 is more than a little old for the “it’s because he likes you” line of reasoning to hold any water whatsoever. At that point a child knows (or bloody well SHOULD know) what’s acceptable behavior and what isn’t. You know what was drilled into my head WELL before I was 10?
Don’t. Hit. Girls.
And as someone who was a military child at 10 (read: moved around a lot) I know very well that kids that age are perfectly capable of being complete assholes. Guess what? There were always a handful of people who loved to “pick on the new kid.” And kept doing it years after he stops being “new,” because they were assholes.
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You, sir, are the idiot. The author isn’t saying young boys are mean and violent (usually they are, but that’s neither here nor there). What she’s actually doing is registering her disgust with the parents/teachers/adults who are telling the young boys and girls that this kind of behaviour is acceptable; or even normal. Next time read the subject matter more carefully and understand what is being discussed before you run your mouth off and insult people based on your incorrect assumptions through misconception.
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Way to miss the point, buddy. The point here isn’t whether kids who bully are evil, but that girls are being taught to accept such behaviour. This kind of bullying may be understandable, but it is not in any way acceptable. It doesn’t really matter if that boy pushes the girl because he’s got a crush on her or because he’s a cruel little bastard (newsflash, kids are cruel little bastards who will go out of their way to antagonize each other), the behaviour is unacceptable either way. So please, before you call these people idiots, take the time to actually read and UNDERSTAND the text.
That said, I agree with a lot of what is being said by the author, although I will say that kids who bully aren’t universally assholes, which is why it’s so important to deal with this stuff early. If you nip it in the bud, making them understand that this isn’t how people behave, then they might not grow up to be a bully.
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You;re the idiot. You just said yourself kids need to be taught, well telling girls that the boy who yanked their hair “did it cause he has a crush on you” is teaching both the boy and girl WRONG! It’s teaching them both that such actions are acceptable behaviour. Like you said kids need to be taught, so we should start by teaching them whats RIGHT and not teaching them whats WRONG!
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Are you freakin serious? Young kids realize a lot more and know MUCH more than adults and people like you give them credit for and that kind of behavior needs to be nipped in the bud. Maybe they don’t understand, so what? Telling everyone that it’s affectionate will only make them think they’re doing right and that can either go away with experience and age or will stay with them forever.
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I really love this article it really brings a competent view on this type of situation :l When I moved to the town I live in currently in 5th grade I would get bullied by a bunch of boys on my bus especially this one boy named Patrick >.> I told my parents and all they said was he probably just likes you well even after they said that I was still bothered by how he’d bully me and how no one would help me except this one girl I was friends with who was in kindergarten and she knew that the whole that just means they like you is total crap :l eventually the bullying lessened when I was walking home from my stop one day and my dad had come out to deal with Patrick and the other boys eventually I learned that Patrick was just an asshole to everyone so he became that little prick who no one likes in my opinion xD
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I’m a high school student and I still deal with this problem. It’s not a problem of the boys not knowing how to show their affection, it’s a problem of them not being told or shown how to show affection properly.
I agree with the author, this is complete BS and needs to stop
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I just came across this blog post, and I have to say, I agree wholeheartedly with everything you’ve said. I had never thought about it like that before. Not only are we teaching girls that hurting someone is okay if you “like” them, but we’re teaching them that no one is going to do anything about it. If a girl’s complaint about a boy hurting her is constantly met with, “He just likes you,” she is going to stop telling people. One of the biggest reasons children don’t report bullying is because they’re afraid nothing is going to be done about it. This gives a terrible message to the boys, too. They’re basically being told they won’t get in trouble for hurting a girl.
We need to teach our girls to tell their teachers (or anyone else who says it) that it doesn’t matter if the boy likes her, she wants him to stop hurting her. We also need to teach our boys that hurting someone he likes is not okay.
Also, it’s a little distressing that some folks out there would call people idiots for not wanting their daughters to accept being bullied. They seem to be missing the sarcasm.
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I find it incredibly ironic that you talk of violence, at the same time expressing your dislike of bullying. I get the point, though. If I went up to someone and punched them in the face to express affection, they’d have all rights to punch me right in the vagina to say “hello” the next day. However, most little boys who do the more mundane teasing, you know, the “no, I don’t want to play with you, you have cooties!” or the occasional game of keep away are actually just trying to figure out a way to express feelings. Actually, if you paid attention, you’ll notice girls do the exact same thing. We just usually don’t pay attention to it, or want to pay attention to it.
When I was younger, I had a very hard time expressing my feelings. I was rough with my friends, for the simple fact that I felt weird giving hugs to all my boy friends, but at the same time wanted to pay all the attention I could to them. We’d often tease the crap out of each other back then, as we do now. Some of these boys I’ve now been friends with for about ten years now. These same boys have grown up now and have learned much better ways of dealing with emotions, as have I.
Growing up and learning to deal with your feelings is a hard thing for either gender. However, telling everyone that its more or less okay to act out and be cruel is very much NOT okay. At some point, you sit your kids down and you tell them that hitting, teasing, keep away, and generally being unkind isn’t how you deal with feelings, and urge them to try to communicate using more positive things. Hell, try actually talking to the classmate you want to play with, instead of just playing keep away. Instead of focusing all on the boys, why don’t we just try to teach all children that bullying of any kind is not okay. Lets not just jump down little boys throats and act like they are the only problem. Girls can be mean too, and really, its the adults who let kids act out aggressively that might need a little retraining.
That is just my two cents, though!
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http://www.npr.org/2012/03/26/149379355/easter-egg-hunt-canceled-due-to-aggressive-parents?sc=fb&cc=fp
I saw this and thought of you, no doubt you will be going to work with your adult kids and in every way protecting them to their detriment
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Nice job mixing “telling your children false things” and “misunderstanding child behaviour” here.
I agree you should not tell your kid (yeah, why has it to be your daughter? bullshit feminism being just as sexist as the worst guys in here) “that’s because they like you”.
But that doesn’t mean you should do something about it if it’s kindergarten. Children at this age aren’t even aware of cruelty, they’re just reproducing default behaviour they see around them, and if you ask a kid why he hurt another one, he’ll just start to cry because HE HAS NO FUCKING CLUE.
So leave the goddamn kids alone with their life experience, since it doesn’t imply you telling them bullshit (that’s the only thing I agree with you in your post).
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I hadn’t really thought of this too much before either, but you are right. It IS bullshit. And to those of you who are criticizing, saying, “Little boys don’t know any better.” BULLSHIT! If they don’t know THE PARENTS damn well better INFORM them of appropriate respectful interactions. Period. To NOT do that is to set up YOUR SON for failure or, at least, a skewed view of gender relations. EVERY CHILD has the RIGHT to PHYSICAL INTEGRITY.
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I physically assaulted many boys and girls as a kid and got assaulted as much as well. This didn’t turn me into a dangerous sociopath nor into an insecure lackwit.
Damn right there’s a point when you have to tell your kids how to behave, I respect that. But interclass pauses before the age of like 8 or 9 are something of a special world to them where a lot of the child mentality (or whatever you call it) is build up through trials, failures, success, mimicking, etc. I fear dwelling into it too much could cause more harm than good.
Seeing it on the catharsis point of view, do you find it really possible for a kid (and each of them has like 100 times your energy, I’m sure you know what I mean) to behave at home AND at school?
There a time they gotta let the steam off, and putting your nose in their court is something I’m afraid of, so to speak :-).
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I remember as a little kid being bullied quite a bit, and whenever I spoke to an adult this is exactly what I was told… I must have been quite smart though because I always thought to myself: “Dad kisses… He’s a boy… How does hitting mean they like me?” But it was always the same thing… I never want to being my kid up thinking its okay to hit or be hit in a relationship.
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Okay….wow………..Sorry It’s just….The scroll bar is so long. I was wondering why and I looked at the top, it says like 1,454 replies/comments…Dang……..
*Alk’s head explodes. Vaelia cleans it up, and then version 2 of Alkaizer87 is brought to life. (This is a bit of an inside joke in one of the webcomics I post at.*
Anyways, jokes aside…and I doubt anybody would get that anyways, Just wow. So much hostility thrown back and forth. I seriously don’t know what to say after reading this. I just naturally suck things up, or more accurately ‘absorb’ things…or I used to anyways. What does this have to do with what I’ll post? Well picture me as a sponge. I take in all P.O.V.s…I suck at spelling by the way, so please to don’t jump on me for grammar and stuff like that. Since I’m a sponge I just don’t put it in my head I also take it to consideration.
Okay first of all before anyone criticizes my post, take into consideration of this:1) I am not used to so many overwhelming posts. So while reading like what? I think that would be like 1/30th of all the comments I was like,” Don’t eat me!”2) I am 24 years old and currently in a Chinese speaking language college…IF you’re all curious I’m in Taiwan…Also yes I couldn’t careless about giving out this information. It’s not like anyone is going to pay like a few hundred USD to fly over here and hire someone to figure out where I live and stalk me.3) I’m sure this won’t be of importance, but I’m Half Chinese and Half European by blood.4) I’m typing all of this at like what? Around 2:30 AM…Yeah I have too much homework, and I originally found this from someone that linked it form their webcomic….did I already say that?5) I’m guy, and I’ve never had this ‘opposite sex’ abusing me thing, only bullying from…well from the middle school bully who happens to be a guy…though this sort of thing usually stopped after giving a good scare…Don’t ask, because I would rather not tell what I had to do to get the bully off of my back, though you should know that I didn’t physically harm anyone.6) Any perverted comments I make in the future on this post, and it offends you I apologize . I usually use this MEGApervert stuff as a means of getting people to lighten up a little, make them laugh. Laughter is always good, one of the best medicines in the world.7) If you hate my comments and want to flame me then go ahead! Bring it on! I’ll take it! Let out all that frustration. Lay it on thick! Words from strangers don’t hurt me! Being a MEGApervert has it advantages! Unlimited lives! Also-*Vaelia kills Alk again. Version 3 comes to life.*
Vaelia: Get on with it already, or would you like another slashing from my Ji.
Alk:…..Okay moving on.
Okay this time seriously all joking are gone. First of all OMG!*looks at top right corner of the blog.* Oh so beautiful! I would love to post on a beauty’s blog. Your point is really strong in my opinion. Some may see you as the “Overprotective and don’t want them to learn to deal with themselves,” type, but I say that’s just because they’re looking at it wrong. Overprotective? No? Le Gasp! How can he not see it that way? Because she’s not literally taking out a shotgun and forcing it down the kids throat and saying,” Leave my daughter alone punk, or else.( Insert menacing eye piercing, and cold freezing glare in here.)” Seriously people you can’t blame her for wanting to say some things. We’re all protective of our children. Aside from the lowest scum of the universe, who wouldn’t be?…Well I don’t have any children…and that’s because I don’t even have a a girlfriend…Which is because I’m too shy to ask one out….Orz TT_TT…Sorry just feel so sad knowing I might never get one….Moving on.
Also about ‘…letting your child deal with it,” Please, they are dealing with it, they’re telling their moms, dads, principals, and all that. That is dealing with it, but you forget to think that they need support. That’s where the protective parent comes in. You preach about dealing with it, as if they can just suddenly level up like in a video game, and push back enough for the other person to stop picking on them. These are children being picked on, usually by someone who is stronger,( since naturally bullies pick on people that think is weaker,) and so naturally some will be frightened.” Well my kid wouldn’t be a sissy like that!” Well good for your kid, but the point is we’re talking about children who won’t fight back, for whatever reason.
If a girl started picking on me around at that age I wouldn’t fight back too. At an early age I was told never to hit girls. I wasn’t taught this because ‘girls’ are weaker. Quite the opposite, I personally think that a lot of females are stronger than me, and they may or may not know it….Okay getting a bit side track. I think what she means with her post is, sending the message that ‘Oh, she/he is doing that because they have a crush on you,’ is very bad. That it’s not right for people who are seen as ‘educated’ people, since they’re teachers, to teach this sort of message to our children. She isn’t saying ‘Oh it only happens to girls,” she is just using her daughter as an example. She’s not sexist, or at least I don’t think she is. She is respectively voicing her opinion about her view on people feeding this,” It’s acceptable to teach kids that ‘ oh he/she just likes you,’ ” stuff to kids. I don’t see what’s wrong if she uses profanity, because the way I see it is that she’s just using it to emphasize on her point. It’s not like she loves cussing. As many before me have said,” It’s gets the point across!”
……………………Sorry I sort of forgot what I was going to say next…I guess that’s what happens when you’re staying up until like 3:10 am and haven’t even eaten anything ever since like 10:30 pm…I know I really should stop procrastinating, but old habits are hard to break. I can see my military future now!” GO FASTER YOU MAGGOT!” “HOW THE HELL DID YOU EVEN QUALIFY FOR THE MILITARY?!”……Yes! Go Ahead and laugh at me! Let it all out! If you like laughing at my laziness the by all means please do so if it make you feel better.
Okay now I remember! I was going to quote about Confucius. Note: For those of you who view Confucianism as a religion. STOP THAT!……Okay….I need to clam down….breath in, breath out….ah….Confucianism is about Confucius’s teaching, which is a philosophy, a way of life. Anyways, moving on. Confucius once said,” To help someone else become established, you yourself becomes established as well.” This is a translated quote from “100 Sayings of Confucius”. As many have said before, we must educate the boys and girls that it is wrong to hit the person you like, if that is they’re doing it because they like them. If that’s not the case…well yeah, just tell them it’s just plain wrong. If you have to tell them,” Every time you tease and abuse that girl/boy you like then that’s one less gift from Santa Claus when comes Christmas time.” Also if they don’t believe in Santa…Well I don’t know.
But yeah…It’s already getting read to be 3:30 and *Yawns* I’m getting tired. Well it’s been fun people,reading those so colorfully languaged replies, throwing criticism here and their. In the end I laugh at the with the people who would call me ignorant, or an idiot, because it’s all a matter of opinion and not fact…..Wait…it’s almost 3:30 AM?! Crud!! I have to go to my game sites and do the daily routine! BYE! *Yes Alk does love video games and webcomics, and so what? Slash! Another Alk killed for even posting that….LAUGH PEOPLE! I know you want to laugh at his stupidity!*
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I gave up on trying to explain my point somewhere around 867 comments. People either get it or they don’t. It is always refreshing to find someone that falls into the former category, though, and differentiates between literal and figurative statements. Thanks for reading and commenting!
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*Goes into clueless manga chibi mode.* あら？！なに？ I’m not sure how to respond to this? Did I misinterpret the message? Or are you saying it’s pretty much useless to try to teach them the message? ごめんさい！ I’m not good at this. Also ありがとうございます！ I like this post very much, since I would pretty much do the same. While I may be the one wrong for slapping the teacher or principal for teaching my future child that. It gets the point across. Also if my kids get expelled because the teacher/principal does like a reality slap, well then that school surely doesn’t deserve to help educate my future children, since they’re dumb enough to feed that crap to my kids. Seriously a school being ran by someone like that is bound to have a lot of issues. Can someone say future Columbine (Did I spell that right?) like incident? Because it sure as hell how those kind of incidents start. 1) The student gets picked on.2) No one helps them.3) If they’re vengeful spirits, then the shit will surely hit the fan, and then things start to get real….Sorry for cussing, but I think that saying best gets the point across. so yeah, I’m not going to have my kids at a school like that.
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Oops….It seems that the horizontal V’s don’t show up on here. Well the Japanese parts say (Arah?!),(What?), (Sorry!),(Thank you! *In a polite way.*)
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Amen to this!! When I was little, I got the SAME reactions from teachers. It pissed my mother off to no end. Well, I took matters in my own hands once. I got fed up with it and I was not convinced what-so-ever that this particular boy liked me and even if he did I certainly didn’t want to put up with it any longer. So on the playground when he was harassing me, I ran my head full force into the boy of which made him cry. It resulted in counseling between me, a moderator and the boy and things got resolved. The KEY is getting this kind of system to work without it needing a drastic measure first (me head-butting the boy for example).
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Amazing article. I completely agree. I was teased, taunted, pushed around, made fun of, be-littled, harrassed, tormented and pretty much TORCHERED in elementry school. The teachers did NOTHING even though they knew I struggled with emotional and mental issues. My parents had told the school of my problems, and to inform them if anything was going on. Everyday I would cry my eyes out and wish I didn’t exists because so many people were teasing me. And guess were it all started…yep…one boy. One boy got the entire school, no joke, the entire school except for a couple of kids to bully me and put me down every chance they got. I was in first, second, third, fourth great and wished I would just get hit by a damn car. Teachers either said it had to be MY fault in some way, even though they saw the other kids starting it, or that this little s***head must have liked me.
Bull!
I’m so glad you wrote this because I’m going to be just this when I have kids. If someone feeds my future kids that crap I’m going to be so far beyond pissed the school will have to expell ME. The crap they feed kids not only these days but back when I was in school is no less then idiotic and down right sick. There’s no need for our girls AND our boys to learn that behavior like this is ok. It’s not ok, at any level or age. I don’t care who says what, this has GOT to stop! I’m wish you! If they feed that to my future child in front of me I’m going to slap them and yell I love you! It just seems to fit the reality bill so very well.
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Um…Wow…In your case it got really out of hand. Seriously there must have been seriously messed up with that school. What I think, The teachers are lazy and don’t want to deal with angry parents, because if they yell at kid for picking on you, or even give them a firm scolding, they would like the bad guy. A lot of teachers are too egotistical to do the right thing. They don’t want their reputation ruined because they did the right thing, and then the parent of the person bullying you comes in and starts waving their fists and threatening them for lecturing their child. So they think just saying,” It’s your own fault some how,” or ” The boy just likes you,” is their sorry ass excuse. Seriously they think you’re just a kid and stupid enough to accept that fact. Well the irony favors them because it just proves they’re the real stupid ones, since kids are more aware about things than some people give them credit for.
If it makes you feel better at least you had a better way of dealing with it in my opinion, since crying does help…Me well…Let’s just say it costs me lots of money to replace so many pencils I broke with one hand each month. Also you didn’t bottle it up and then let it explode like I did.(Alk was known for holding it in for a while and then exploding suddenly when he couldn’t take it anymore….Which resulted with him usually slamming his fist on the table and yelling out loud to “Shut the Hell Up!” or him picking up his desk and ready to throw it at the person that continued to pick on him because the teacher didn’t do anything about the bully.) Thankfully they didn’t give me the “Oh he just likes you” excuse, because then I would be worried and as to teacher’s sexual preferences.*Shivers thinking about it.*
Anyways! You’re not alone in this world about being picked on and stuff, and I’m sure with a good evil eye glare they’ll keep away from your future children.
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Thanks for the reply. Means a lot to know people read what others say around here. There are a lot of places that will just ignore what everyone else is saying. Seems like QotC reads the comments to, which is a big huge thumbs-up plus in my opinion! I love that. Anyways back to your comment Alk…
Yeah I’m pretty sure there was something seriously wrong with that school and it’s teachers. There was only one or two teachers there that were decent and caring enough to know that what was going on wasn’t my fault and I needed help. I’m so glad that I didn’t have to go through that a 5th year (that’s gets explained later). I’m sorry you also had to go through the stuff you did, I almost wish I had the guts you did to throw things at people. Maybe it would have made them finally leave me alone. It was out of hand and down right just hell for me.
I sometimes wish I would have had the nerve and the angry to just slap them across the face, but when your told so many times your pretty much worthless and that it’s your fault somehow, you try your best to just stay quiet and out of sight. Which by the way, just ignoring the bullies, doesn’t work. It didn’t for me and I’ve never met someone who it DID work for.
Honestly I completely see where QotC is coming from and don’t understand why (after reading so many comments) that people are so upset by her language or how she reacted to what happened. It’s a completely acceptable responce to someone basicly teaching your child that being treated that way is ok. It’s not ok! By telling someone that they are treating you that way because they like you, you are teaching them to accept the behavior that someone being hurtful is normal and that it’s something to do with you. I mean come on, since when is pushing someone and RIPPING something off of their arm a sign of affection?
If I ever find out that any of my future children were to treat someone that way and a teacher let them get away with it, I would quickly give the teacher a good talking to as to why exactly they let my child act that way. I’d then give my child a proper spanking, a timeout to think about what they did, and then explain to them how to ACTUALLY treat people.
And to anyone who just gasped and is appalled at the thought that I’m ok with spanking…oooo yes I’m ok with spanking but against kids harrassing and hurting each other oooo. I grew up being spanked for punishment. I didn’t get spanked a lot though, only a couple times that I can remember. Want to know why? Because I was taught better then to be a little brat. I knew right and wrong not only from personal experience with bullies, but because my parents had the amazing talent and life experience to teach me what right and wrong was, rather then sugercoat things. They were my parents way before they were my friends, and I thank them for that.
I know and understand that kids can be brats and that they hit each other when they get upset when their 5-YEARS-OLD! When they hit around the age group of 7 to 9, they know better. They at least SHOULD know better. If they don’t either that child has not been socialized very well or their parents need a good damn talking to. Again, I understand that some kids don’t always go the way that they should based on their up-bringing…but even so we shouldn’t make excuses for them. Especially not their teachers and parents! If an adult sees a kid is doing something wrong, they need to say something and DO something about it.
The idea that the phrase “It’s because he likes you!” or “What did you do to deserve that?” or any variation of the two being acceptable in our homes, day-cares and schools is horrifying to me. It scares me for my future children because the last thing I want is for them to go through what I did. I never want them to have to experience the feeling of worthlessness or want them to think they have to possibly result to taking their own life to escape from the torment and torcher.
This isn’t just about sucking it up as a parents or being to protective. This isn’t about little 4- or 5-year-old being normal bratty little kids. This is about teaching our kids that this behavior is acceptable. Even if they aren’t meaning to, their still doing it. Their teaching our girls and boys that it’s ok to mix harming someone (emotionally, mentally and/or physcially) with showing affection. News flash, I don’t care what your stance is on spanking or where you think the line is between bullying and ‘harmless poking-fun’. This isn’t about that. This is about teaching our kids at a young age that it’s ok. What happens when you learn as a kid that things are ok? You get comfortable with it. You get use to it and you start to do it MORE.
Take driving a car for example…odd example I know but it’s the best I can come up with. When your a kid you watch your parents do it. At first when your really little, it’s amazing, scary and/or new. As you get a little older, it becomes normal. It’s a car, it takes you places and it’s normal because mommy, daddy and other people do it. You get older, what do you want to do? Learn to drive so you can go places and be normal like other people. You take lessons and learn to drive. What do you do then? You drive around more and more until it’s second nature and your doing it every day without even thinking that driving yourself is odd.
Driving a car and learning that hurting someone may seem like two totally different things, but if you look past the odd comparison, you’ll see that it really does fit…because if your parents are aggressive drivers just guess what happens. If they speed up to beat red-lights and curse and scream when someone ‘won’t get out of the way’ or ‘cut them off’ what are you more likely to do as an adult? Speed, run red-lights and curse and scream at ‘stupid idiots’ on the road.
Kids learn that harrasment and bullying it ok by those little things they take note of and see. Kids are far more aware of things then people give credit for, as you said Alk. They know when their getting away with something and they start to LEARN they can get away with it and they learn that it’s OK. While the person that’s receiving the harrasment is starting to feel like their doing something wrong in reporting it or that their weird for not thinking it’s ok, so they start to just accept and allow it to happen even though it’s killing them inside.
I know after awhile I stopped telling my parents about what was happening at school because I just felt like no one would help me even if I begged them too. I was on my last rope and it took a drastic measure for my parents to finally know, understand and LEARN the complete and total truth. I didn’t go hurting myself, before you jump to that thought. No instead I ran away from my school. Yep…middle of recess I just turned and bolted as fast as I could to a gap in the gate. I was so sick of being there I ran. I got caught a little ways from the school, didn’t get far, but this is what I was pushed to because of ‘kids being kids’.
We need to teach our kids to respect themeselves AND each other! Learn to give respect to others, expect repsect from others, and give respect to yourself. If I ever had to go through the day, which I’m sure I will, when my child comes to me saying they were harrassed, teased or harmed at school by another classmate, I will sit them down and have a talk to them about how proud I am for them telling me about what happened and that I’m so glad they know it’s not ok. I will then continue to explain that it’s wrong behavior and that if it happens again to tell a teacher, and if the teacher doesn’t do anything to tell me. I will then, if it comes to it, have a talk with not only the teacher but the parents of the child that is harming my child as well.
Of course if I ever find MY child being the ‘attacker’ you can rest assured that they will learn that it’s inappropriate behavior and I will call the parents or meet up with them and not only personally appologize for my child’s behavior, but have my child appologize to the kid they were harrassing.
I appologize for ranting so much, but something in me kind of just exploded as I started to write…^^’ I know I must have gotten off-topic somewhere in there, but this is just a huge subject for me. I’ve been told to let go of the past, and I have for the most part. I’ve moved on and it doesn’t hold me back. Though when I think about it I can’t help but get fired up. I know others out there had it much worse then me, I’ve even read a story or two in the comments here that I know were worse then me and I give them my best wishes and am so sorry for what they went through. For me though, at the time, my life was absolute hell and I can’t stand to think that a child is being taught that treatment is ok, on any level.
I wish the absolute best of luck QotC to you and your daughter and fully support not only your opinion and your right to that opinion, but your language as well.
Because some times it’s just fucking needed. 😉
Also Alk I’m told I can get a really mean looking evil eye when I’m pissed XD
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I have been shocked and saddened by those that have shared their personal experiences with bullying and how their cries for help were dismissed. Thanks for sharing yours and reinforcing my point.
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Thank you so much for sharing your daughters experience with us. So many people want to be hush-hush about the subject, but I’m so happy you decided not to be. Thank you for taking the time to read my post and respond to it. It really means a lot for a mom to be speaking out against this when her daughter doesn’t have the strength yet to do it herself. It was my pleasure to lend a voice in helping reinforce a point that needs to be spoken loud and clear.
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Your point doesn’t need reinforcing, because it’s pretty much fortified very well. It’s like a giant ass fortress. Our stories are just messengers, sending your point across to other people who are pretty much too ignorant to read and get the point of your post….Except for the fact that our stories don’t just send it to them like in the mail, it more like going face-to-face with the person and slapping the information into their thick skull, since there’s no other way to do it.
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Amen!!!
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Wowee, some of these replies are really disturbing. The author is completely entitled to voice her opinion, and so are the repliers, but if this topic makes you so angry that you feel the need to post an aggressive or cruel comment… maybe you should just close this window and make a nice cup of tea.
Now I’ve never been fed that crap about boy crushes, and I’ve never been truly harrassed but a male classmate – I was raised a tomboy and gave as good as I got and I think that was respected by my male peers (not so much my female ones). Nor am I a mother, so I can’t really relate in that sense.
But what I take from this is that there’s often a stark difference in the way that young boys and young girls are taught to deal with life, and in my opinion, this isn’t on. I’ve noticed this too when, for example, a child falls over and scrapes their knee and is upset by it. Little boys are told that it’s ok, they’re big boys they can cope. And little girls are picked up and fussed over and kissed better. As a tiny toddler I doubt it really matters, but as a 5 or 6 year old, they start to pick up on this stuff as they learn about how to cope with different situations.. And it’s just the beginning of forging the gap between genders.
To me, a woman who turns around and speaks her mind is to be more respected than one who let’s it slide because of some twisted sense that it’s her fault. And a man who settles his arguments with words is a better man than one who does it with his fists.
Obviously these gender differentiations will always exist in society, they’re a part of our culture and identity. There will always be situations that one gender deals with more than the other.
But to me, as a parent, I’ll treat my daughters and sons the same, and not impress on them that they should behave a certain way just because they have different bits.
My greatest fear is that they’ll be bullied by their peers, for not being their gender stereotype – because of other parents teaching their kids that boys are this way and girls are that way.
And for the record, children are not angels. For as far as I remember, which is about 5, I knew exactly what I was doing. I did a lot of bad, naughty things without thinking or because I couldn’t resist temptation, but I knew damn well what I was doing was wrong. And I got punished and I didn’t do it again. So don’t give children the excuse of ignorance, give them more credit than that, they aren’t stupid. And instead teach them how to learn from their mistakes and be healthy people.
Besides which, abuse is never an excuse for ‘not knowing how to communicate’. You can’t use that excuse in court. “I beat my girlfriend up because I couldn’t find a way to tell her that her partying makes me feel insanely insecure”
Yeah right!
Thanks for making me take some time out to think about this stuff
Take care 🙂
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Ohhh no.. Really?
I spent about an hour writing a comment, and then when I clicked post, WordPress insisted I log in.. Wompf! It isn’t here!
Ah well, maybe it just wasn’t meant to be! x’D
I basically said I also disagree with the way children are told to act certain ways because of their gender, and that I think it’s closed-minded and encourages closed-minded children in terms of gender – acknowledging of course that messages about gender are all around us, they’re a part of our culture and identity and to a degree are unavoidable. But as a parent, I would endeavour to treat my daughters and sons the same way. My greatest fear being that they’d be bullied, as from personal experience I know that children that don’t fit into their gender stereotype are singled out and picked out.
I said that children aren’t angels. I’m young enough to remember being a child well, and even though I often acted on impulse, I knew when I was doing something wrong. Children shouldn’t be given the excuse of ignorance, they aren’t stupid, give them more credit than that. If they truly don’t know better, teach them so they do.
Aaand I said that not knowing how to communicate feelings isn’t an excuse for abuse. Ever. You wouldn’t be able to use that excuse in court as an adult, so don’t allow your children to use it.
OH and I told all these people posting aggressive comments to piss off and make a cup of tea.
Yup, TAKE TWO! 🙂
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If I had an award for comments, I would give you one because you posted twice! I have had some KEY-RAY-ZEE comments, including threats against me and my kids so I have to approve your 1st comment on the blog.
I am going to start passing out tea!!
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Well once, when I was in kindergarden there was one boy who was harrasing me and it was just anoying so i bit him in hes cheek. It may seemed as if I was going to kiss him and boys who were around went ohhh, but he had a red imprint of my teeth on his right cheek for weeks after that incident. Well back then I knew that what I did wasn’t the best thing I could do in that situation, but still better then being quiet about it. And now it’s just funny story. Also, I feel kind of sorry for him.
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QOTC and many respondents must have had some very poor experiences because much of what I read here seems quite two dimensional.
In my understanding, very young children are actively learning. They imitate the behaviours the see around them, including violence, intolerance and arrogance, as well as love, mediation and encouragement. However, many young children lack social skills. Thus, a boy who likes a girl might find it difficult to start a conversation, explore areas of common interest or pass a compliment. Instead, he might do something to attract her attention or even go so far as to pester, tease or even hit the girl. That’s not right, but it might help to explain things.
Identifying the possible causes of such behaviour does not condone it, but it might help parents and the children to come to terms with the underlying issues and explore constructive ways to resolve them, without resorting to confrontation.
I hope this makes sense and that things will calm down for you and your daughter.
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So the tease, hit, and do other hings the the victim will consider to be annoying. Gee how stellar for that boy to know such a great way to attract a girl’s attention by abusing them, whether it’s verbally or physically. That’ll definitely get the girl of his dreams to kiss him alright…Oh did I mention I was being sarcastic? Also it might help explain things? Cut the crap. The boy doesn’t know how to communicate that he likes her, so he teases her. He sees she’s disturbed and uncomfortable with it, which is a clear sign to stop, and yet he doesn’t. It’s one thing to try it once, but to continue it’s not. clearly the other person doesn’t like it, yet you say it’s okay for them to continue? Even when I was 5 and 6 I wasn’t that stupid. Also the people around me that age clearly knew that it bothered people to tease. Are you HIGH?! to actually THINK that they will stay ignorant for the rest of their lives. People learn through experience and what they see around them, yes. So they try to hit or tease the person they like, that obviously comes from seeing it happen, or they at least think that’s what you do. However, here’s’ the experiencing part. They clearly seeing it is in effective, oh I know!” This means she/he doesn’t like it. I should stop!” However, after that they don’t. Clearly that means it’s not because they like her. They may start off ignorant, but that doesn’t mean they stay that way.
Also more on topic: It’s not okay to teach the child the “Oh that means they like you,” message, that’s what this topic was about. Imagine if they took it seriously. This is what would happen and quite possibly the worst case scenario:
*Victim comes home. Mom and dad see her bruise.*
Mom: What is that?! Honey who did this to you?
Daughter/Son: Oh nothing, it’s just something that someone did to me to show they love me.
Mom: Are you sure they’re not just picking on you because they don’t like you?
Kid: Yes I’m sure mommy. Even the guidance counselor (how ironic that name is in this situation) says that” That just means the like you.”
Mom: Ummmm….Okay if you say so, but don’t let it happen again. Now go do your homework.
*Day 2 of bullying.*
*Kid comes home.*
Mom: Oh my! What happened?!
Kid: Oh it’s nothing. The boy just pushed me and I accidentalyl slammed into the locker. The principal said it’s a “Love Tap,” and also ” That means he likes you.” He must really like me if he’s gotten more aggressive.
Mom: Nonsense! I’m going to go talk to the principal and guidance counselor at once!
Kid: Mommy no! If you do that he won’t love me anymore. I’m sure they’re right, after all you told me teachers and guidance counselors do things to help.
Mom: But this is too much! First thing tomorrow I’m going!
*Next Day at school.*
Mom: I think you’ve been poisoning my child long enough!
Principal: Miss *insert family name here,* we are-*interrupted with someone screaming out in the halls.*
* They go outside.*
Principal: What’s going on?!
A Kid: *Bully’s name,* was picking on *victim’s name* again today, instead this time instead punching or pushing he/she slammed *victim’s name* in the wall and now…now…
*They look at hte sight of the victim’s blood on the floor. The victim’s head had cracked open against the corner of the wall, since the slam was forceful, and not the least bit light.*
Mom: No! My baby! Don’t just stand there! Call the ambulance!
Principal: Oh right!
if they actually accept that them teasing and hitting them is love, then surely they’ll think that being more agressive about it will be an even great way of showing affeciton. That is not the case. The fact that they want to hurt you means they don’t love you, because if you love someone you don’t want to hurt them in anyway, shape, or form. It’s just plain wrong, period!
Also about hte wall thing and bleeding, completely possible. I once got the area between my eyebrow and eyes split open because I ran into a wooden helf that had my legos at Chinese Sunday Classroom. I woke up after a few seconds seeing tons of blood coming from my head. I had to get lots of stitches for it. So being slammed against a wall, which I know for sure won’t be made of wood, but something harder, and it being rather forceful, yeah that’ll hurt and most likley result in bleeding. It’s not hte same as being slamemd against a locker. you might bleed only a little it from the locker, and that because behind the metal is nothing but speace. However, a wall it’s a lot harder and I would bet 100 USD that it’s not empty behind it. Remember people hurting people is just plain wrong, it won’t help attract positive attention for that girl you like. Also it’s not acceptable to teach them it is.
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I think this should go for ALL forms of bullying. I’m a guy and I used to be bullied. When I have sons and daughters of my own, I never intend to feed them the whole “It’s because he has a crush on you” bullcrap. I’m going to tell them to turn around and kick that rat bastard straight in the face, before striking twice across the temples so he knows never to pull that sort of shit ever again
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Reblogged this on Not A Teen Anymore and commented:
This is want brought me to this site, so I’m going to let it be my first reblog. I love this article. It has a great message and it hits very close to home for me personally. I went through bullying and teasing as a child, and was fed the crap that she talks about was fed to her child. It’s a horrible thing to go through, and it drives me absolutely nuts that people are teaching our children that this behavior is ok and acceptable…anyways read the actual blog post to see what I’m talking about. Have fun!
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I don’t think teachers and parents should deflect bullying behaviour as “s/he likes you so put up with it”. But I also wouldn’t be reading too far into this behaviour conditioning my kids to become victims of physically/emotionally abusive relationships later on in life. I got hit and teased plenty as a kid and you know what my mother told me? Hit them back. She always said that if another kid started something she supported us defending ourselves as long as it wasn’t excessive and that we didn’t go looking for it. I’ll be telling my daughters and sons the same thing.
Frankly I don’t give a damn if you swear in your blogs or not, I don’t think it makes you any less of a reasonable person or your opinion or concerns any less valid. I swear like a sailor around my friends but never around children. Some of the people over reacting and using your language as an excuse to criticise you need to remember that, there are plenty of things adults do and say that we keep away from kids. If you do swear around your kids then that’s your choice and while I wouldn’t agree with it I would never say you’re a bad parent/terrible person for doing it. It also doesn’t seem like this blog is aimed at children, if you want to show it to your kids then edit it, don’t whine about it not being child appropriate.
One last thing: Not wanting your daughters/sisters/friends to put up with being hit/teased/unhappy does not make you a damned feminist. It makes you a concerned parent/sibling/friend.
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Amen!
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I understand your anger towards this and support you but I would like to open your eyes a little for it’s not only girls that this is happening to, when I was younger, I was always told if a girl hit me it meant she liked me. I grew up thinking for a long time that being sacked by a girl meant she liked me a lot and one day I decided to show my effection to a girl the way I thought was right, boy was I wrong. I’m not saying didn’t deserve the punishment that came afterwards and I’m not saying I’m proud of my actions, but parents really need to think of how they raise their children, both male and female. Both sides need to learn hitting is not a proper way of showing effection, but people also need to know that this stuff doesn’t just happen to one side. When a boy hit me, I was told kick hs fucking ass, when a girl hit me, I was told it meant she liked me, but the moment I hit a girl believing it to be the right way to show effection, I was lectured, I was scolded, I was grounded and I was punished afew other ways by her big brother. I haven’t hit a female since, atleast not like I did then, now at most I’ll do a playful flick or a light tap, or in the case with my aunt-in-law a full out slapping war yet all in good fun, we both enjoy it, we’re both having fun and yes we’re both getting hurt. Anyways stopping myself from trailing off too far, it’s not just girls being told “it’s because he likes you” boys are also being told this. I’m not trying to make boys sound like they are less to blame, I’m just trying to say that it does happen on both sides.
I’m no parent being only 19 but even I wouldn’t raise my child to believe that physcal and/or verbal abuse is a sign of effection.
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I’ve never had much confidence in myself, so even when I was a little kid I never believed that it meant that he “likes” me. I always thought that, if I’m getting bullied or picked on, it’s because I’m not good enough or pretty enough or cute enough to be treated like the other girls are. In fact, growing up, I always thought that I would never be loved by a boy. Even now, with my boyfriend of two and a half years (who is my first boyfriend anyways, and we are both 17), who is the most gentle, kindest boy I know, I still have little self confidence and have admitted it to his face that I wouldn’t be surprised or hate him if he ever fell in love with someone else, or cheated on me. He insists that he never will, but I still have no confidence in myself whatsoever because I was teased so much. I’m seventeen now, and I’m STILL made fun of at school, by boys and girls alike.
If I was five and you told me it’s because he “likes” me when I got made fun of, I wouldn’t believe it and just assume that he hates me. I mean, how the hell is teasing a form of showing affection? Unless it’s playful teasing (which my boyfriend does, and so do my other friends, and I do as well), it’s not a form of showing affection. And the way that little boys tease/make fun of/beat up little girls never seemed playful to me.
That’s why, when I have a child in the future, if it’s a girl, I will tell her that it doesn’t mean that he likes you, but you shouldn’t let it bother you. And if I have a son, I will tell him to fight back, defend himself. I wouldn’t want my future kid/s to grow up feeling like they would never be loved the way I did. No matter how many people told me that it’s just a boys way of showing affection, it never felt that way, it always felt like the opposite. It’s not cool, and it should be dealt with. It’s stupid that the anti-bullying seminars that I’ve always had to go to at school show boys bullying boys and girls bullying girls, but never mixed up. Bullying is bullying. Bullying is NOT affection.
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You are awesome and wise and amazing and I hope you are a teacher or someone in a position of trust and authority. People need to know how to empower women and others to not be victims. That,I think is the problem in this society. Stop being a victim and stand up for yourself!!
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Can I PLEASE get an “Amen”?!?!
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Additionally, get it into your head that “only I can make me miserable, nobody else has that power over me”. Make this your mantra, your affirmation, and you will go far , my friends.
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I totally love you.
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I’m 18, but if/when I have a daughter, I’ll tell her the exact same thing. It’s one thing if I would pick on girls back when I was 8 because I liked them; choosing ONE girl ALL the time while playing tag is absolutely normal. Anything remotely close to “hitting” or “insulting” CAN’T be seen as a sign of affection. It never is.
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It’s strange to me looking back on it, but my mother used to use the “That means he likes you” line. She always found it amusing and adorable, and the more frustrated I got from trying to tell her how, NO, he took my favorite Lisa-Frank pencil and snapped it in front of my face because he knew he’d get away with it and his friends would think it was funny, WELL, if I was getting so flustered and breathless over all this that must mean I liked him back!
It was actually my dad who always gave me the “The proper way to punch a person in the face is to hold your fist at THIS angle and make sure your knuckles are flat” talk. It wasn’t until I got in trouble a few times for following Dad’s advice that my mother started to get that maybe I was really upset. She still doesn’t get HOW upset, though.
A young man in one of my University classes traded numbers with me after we had a friendly conversation. Not long after I got home, he called and immediately propositioned me for sex. I told him no several times, he’d apologize for being awkward, then he’d go “But what if we just…”
It didn’t stop until I finally hung up on him.
I called my mom, always wanting to here from me, always there to comfort me if I was upset.
“He must’ve thought you were really CUTE, ooooh!”
I don’t think it would surprise anyone if I said I slept with the kitchen knife under my pillow that night, would it? It would SHOCK my mother, though, at my OVERREACTION.
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Wow! I can’t imagine telling my daughter to be flattereed if a man made unwanted sexually aggressive advances to her. That isn’t a man that thought you were sooo cute, that was a man who had no respect for women, obviously.
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Rather late reading this, but I’d just like to add, when I was a kid, my dad always told me, “If someone hits you, you can hit them back.” If I ever have a daughter, I will tell her the same thing.
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I’m so glad someone else on this planet is disturbed by current culture! I’m 14 years old and in secondary school and this boy tried to push me down a busy and blocked staircase. To make matters worse the school building is 300 years old and as a result the steps are very narrow due to people 300 years ago having smaller feet than people of today.
I almost fell. I hurt my foot and knocked my hip in the process of trying to keep my balance. I was greatly disturbed because not only would I have been hurt but a load of people I would have fallen onto and taken down with me too.
Anyway I turned round and demanded why he pushed, I then told him he was being an idiot and not to do it again ect.
He said sorry so I thought ‘Good’ and forgave him and thought it would be the end of it but nooo. He still tries to push me down the stairs and tries to trip me up and throws insults at me (he was throwing insults and tripping me up before the stair incident, one of them being ‘all Canadians should be put down’. I’m not Canadian but my parents are and he knows this. Also he thinks I’m Canadian too because due to speaking problems till I was 10 I didn’t have time to distinguish between my parents’ accents and my birth place’s accent. My accent ended up in a mix between the 2. I’ve told him this but he doesn’t believe me and calls me ‘foreign’ which annoys me).
Plus he gets away with it! Some teachers think that all these incidents are good things cause it means affection. Pretty strange ways of showing affection!
Some girls who know him have told me today that he loves me. When I said he doesn’t cause he tried to push me down the stairs they said that he wanted to get my attention and that he openly admitted it to them. They then said that I should go out with him.
They seemed shocked when I said I don’t want a boyfriend who pushes me down the stairs.
And people wander why that in this day and age there are still so many abusive relationships?
We should teach children to show affection in other ways. Never through physical or racial abuse!
Plus people don’t worry I have told some sensible teachers about the things he’s done and teaching assistants who check up on me to see if I’m getting on ok with things and that my speech is up to scratch. They know about him and if he so much as touches a hair on my head again they will do something about it.
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I am so impressed that a girl of your age is able to recognize that this is unacceptable behavior and share some wisdom and sanity with you peers that have accepted it as a normal sign of affection.
I hope that the teachers continue to monitor this and that you might inspire this boy to rethink his methods.
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I really think many, many, MANY people missed the point of this blog. She’s a mom who’s pissed off because a teacher basically told her daughter it was okay for a little boy to physically assault her (by grabbing her arm) and steal from her (her silly bandz) because he liked her. What. The. Fuck. Does that teacher still have a job? If so, why? And by the way, people, get off your fucking high horses about the cursing already! I curse around my peers, but not around my younger sisters and niece (my sisters under the age of 16 I mean, my niece is 2). I imagine the blogger does the same as she seems like a perfectly normal mom from what I’ve read. Even though I don’t necessarily agree with everything the blogger posts, I can still respect her opinions without trashing her as a person. I am a grown-up. This is how grown-ups work.
I came to this blog from a friend’s link about the “things never to say to a pregnant woman,” and from there went to her recent posts, and then to “hot topics.” I’m the oldest of eight children (7 girls, one boy, ages 11-26, and yes, my mother is sure to be canonized as soon as she dies for the simple miracle that we’re all still alive), and having seen or experienced much about children in my 26 years, I can relate to much of what the blogger says in various posts.
As a child, I was back and forth from public school (ps) to home schooling (h) and back again (after the first homeschooling time, the choice was always mine). I don’t remember teasing or such during the early ps years (k-2). In fact, I can vividly remember my first ‘boyfriend’. A boy liked me and I liked him in 2nd grade. Since we had this mutual liking, we didn’t hit or throw things or say nasty things to each other; we held hands whenever possible. Our special thing was in PE: since neither of us liked running, we’d hold hands and walk the 1/4 mile around the field during those classes we were supposed to run it. Interesting, I know, two children around the age of 7 who knew how to express feelings.
I was home schooled from 3rd grade until the second semester of 5th. (The education standards were lacking, so mom home schooled us starting when I was in 3rd grade. I stopped doing the work in 5th, so she said my choices were do the work or go back to ps. I didn’t do the work.) I was delighted that so many girls I remembered from 2nd grade were still there! However, they were at that catty pubescent age which seems to last from age 9 through 14, even longer for some. Needless to say, they were no longer friendly to me and I was bullied. There was also an ongoing incident with a kid on my bus who tortured me verbally escalating to physical abuse. Because my mom is an AMAZING woman, just as this blogger seems to be, the bus routes got changed (which took my mom going to the superintendent of schools to be heard) and the entire 5th grade female population at my elementary school had a meeting about bullying (due to an amazing teaching staff who helped stand up for me).
I consider myself a well adjusted woman now, in spite of my early hardships. I can’t wait to have kids of my own so I can be the kind of mom mine was and still is (but will because I know I currently can’t afford to monetarily or emotionally).
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Thanks for reading and the thoughtful response!
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I think you missed the point…this is an adult person who’s post belies both hypocritical and inappropriate intentions. Worst of all she is setting her daughter up to have a victim mentality. People who don’t have victim mentalities are not bothered by the little things in life… They can move on. Victims let every misstep an proble
Derail them….and they are a huge fucking pain in the ass to everyone who has taken charge of their lives. This is a woman who needs to work on her abilities and behavior as far as other people go…. And she ought to be teaching her daughter tonlive with confidence. There will always be people who do and say things you don’t like. Her daughter is better served if she knows how to handle it. Not to mention it is HER job to teach her kids how to handle situations NOT anyone else’s.. She ought to be thanking whomever it was who was trying to diffuse the situation…. And set the stage for HER… yes HER to help her daughter understand and process the situation. Just because you can have a baby doesn’t mean you have the maturity or temperament to be a parent.
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1) You are the one that missed the point. You think physical aggression should be considered acceptable behavior. You are wrong.
2) You are a little obsessed with me. If you disagree with my point, move on with your life. No harm, no foul. If a blog post that you disagree with stirs such anger and vitriol within you, you should stop stalking it and, possibly, consider professional help. It’s more than a little creepy.
3) For fuck’s sake, please learn to spell. Furthermore, research the appropriate use of ellipses. They are not a replacement for every other form of punctuation.
Kthanxbye
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Thank you for proving my point about your victim mentality and temperament by replying in such a violent way.
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You don’t seem to know the definition of “violent” or “victim mentality” either. Add that to your list of homework.
After that, decide that you are going to act like a normal, rational adult and not continue to patronize a blog written by someone that you so vehemently disagree with. Mmmmkay? It’s really that easy. I come across blogs all the time with a point of view I disagree with. Guess what I do. I just don’t read the blog anymore. I don’t keep returning and make personal attacks against the blogger and/or the blogger’s family. I just go on with my life. It sounds pretty crazy but it works. Give it a shot!
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Thank you for replying to him. Reading Lee’s reply made me want to punch him in the nuts. And no, people in internet land, I don’t mean that literally. I would never do that in real life, it’s just a saying I use when I’m really angry with someone.
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Lee,
I totally agree with you and I believe she did prove your point with her reply, she turned you into a stalker for having a difference of opinion and i find that a riot. I don’t think you were saying violence is ok, it’s not. I believe you were saying that instead of teaching her the victim mentality it would be better to teach her how to deal with the situation and to have confidence enough to not let the bullying work. I love the bullying you got from all the replies from them stating how wrong it is to bully what a riot. I do agree though Violence is always wrong, as is bullying I just think that you are apt to make her subject to more of the same if you teach her to be a victim instead of teaching her how to stand up for herself. But thats just my opinion hopefully that doesn’t make me a stalker and I wont be belittled for my grammar and or spelling.
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For the record, I didn’t label him a stalker for making one post. He has made MULTIPLE posts on this thread. He has expressed, not only his dissenting opinion (which is fine) but has gone as far as to make character attacks on me, a person he has never met. It is a bit whackadoo.
What I find high-larious is that people, like you and your little buddy, Lee, think you can read one blog post, regarding one topic, and decide you have my entire character and parenting style pegged. Not to mention, the obvious cognitive dissonance you share, given that you think that teaching children to not accept abusive behavior as affection is teaching a ‘victim mentality’. I suppose you, like Lee, think we should teach our daughters to keep their mouths shut and take it. It is RIDICULOUS to consider that teaching children how to set and respect boundaries as valuable? Yeah, teaching my children to expect and show others respect is sooooo helicopter-ish. *eyeroll*
‘
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How about all that foul language. Obviously neither of you all are good example to your children. You don’t think bullying is okay, but you think you can fix it right back with actual violence and foul language. What a hoot. Go ahead, turn you kids into bullies in order to ward off other bullies. No wonder there is nothing left but bullies. Lee and Craig, you are both correct. Thank you for expressing your opinion, because for every queenofthecouch and such there are ten of you and me.
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So Olag… From what I understood, for every one person who points out how messed up it is to feed these messages to children there will be ten people who will jump down their throat and say they’re making kids adopt victim mentality.
Why does this sound like rape culture?
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I’ve thought to myself so many times that I could write a follow up/sequel based on the comments alone. You should’ve seen some of the ones I deleted, involving talk of rape against me and/or my daughter. Yeah, but there is no rape culture. I’ve actually written a couple of blogs on rape culture, not related to this post.
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I haven’t read the multiple comments above, but I just found your blog and wanted to say…
Beyond being incredibly right about teaching your daughter not to stand for any sort of unwanted “attention,” you’re also incredibly funny.
*slap* I LOVE YOU!
Brilliant.
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*SLAP* Thanks and I LOVE YOU TOO!
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Thank you, you gave me confidence
I am 12 and there`s a boy in my class who doesn´t stop touching me at “places”, and even if I tell him to stop, he only laughs and says: o no your going to hit me with your karate right?
He also used one of my friends to kiss and touch her and he’s keeping on doing that to diferent girls. I always though that i might put this to an end, but there’s no other way than hitting him, because our teachers don’t say anything, and even if they do , he won’t stop. I want to show him that girls aren’t just things that someone can use and than throw away
And now when i tell this to my other friends they say that he only touches because he wants to get my attention, but you are totally right I am going to out this to an end
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Maria, you need to tell someone that this is going on. If asking him to stop doesn’t work, you yell, scream or do anything you need to do to get someone’s attention. If you have to be physical to get him to get off of you, especially when there is no one else around then do that. If this boy is in your class, you need to talk to a teacher and let him/her know that this is happening. There is NOTHING acceptable about what this little boy is doing and you have done NOTHING wrong. Do not let your friends tell you that this is his way of showing you that he likes you. When a boy wants to show you that he likes you, he will do NICE things for you, not be a little asshole and force himself upon you. It is a shame that girls are afraid to speak up when someone abuses them because they are told that the boy is just doing it “because he likes you.”
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Maria, PLEASE…. Talk to your parents and tell your teacher. No one has the right to touch you without your permission. Period. What this boy is doing to you and the other girl is abusive and should be taken very seriously. I used to be a teacher. What I always told my students was this: tell someone you trust. If that person doesn’t do anything or doesn’t act as though he/she believes you, tell someone else. Keep telling until you are listened to. I know it’s scary and uncomfortable to think about getting someone else in trouble. But there are times when your safety is more important than the other person’s feelings. This is most definitely one of those times!
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Amen
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As the mother BOYS my sons are taught to respect girls as though it was me that they were talking to. That it is never okay to touch a girl with out her permission whether it be to remove a sticker from their hair on the playground or to hold their had or kiss them… Somehow in teaching this, the girls have taken power positions over boys because boys won’t hit them back. It is a real tragedy when the boys come home and talk about the girls bullying them on the playground, kicking them in the Privates, throwing things at them. They feel as though they can’t do anything about it.
My son came home one day limping because a girl had kicked him so hard in the leg he had a bone bruise. I asked what happened to the girl and he said,”nothing, she just likes me is what the teacher said.” Not so funny and not okay. It is not okay to teach either gender that it is okay to show love or affection with violence and pain. He also pointed out that if it was a boy who kicked him he would have kicked back and defended himself, but since it was a girl he couldn’t anyway.
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It amazes me that children are becoming so hateful that the nice kids have to be taught how deal with being bullied!!!!!
Really?? Why do I have to explain to my child that noone is teaching the bully how to be nice? Why is it ignored by punishing the bully? If we as parents took the time to teach our children what to say, how to act, and CORRECT them and MAKE them do it right each time they do it wrong, maybe there would be less bullying.
Honestly, I think most children don’t know what to really say. And I blame adults for only teaching no, and stop it. Each negative thing said is followed with 3 things they DO like about the person. And if there is attitude, they have to do it again. It will also teach them how to respect others and give self esteem because they wont be getting fussed at so much.
And we won’t need courses on how to deal with a bully. Or make them say 3 things nice. Theres your course parents with bullies.
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Just wanted you to know that this post was why I became a fan of your blog. My daughter, who is 26, and two of my nieces who are moms all sent it to me the day you posted it. I loved it then, I love it now, It flew from one independent woman to another, and we knew that you had nailed it. Great piece!
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Thanks so much!!
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I love that you wrote this. I have been wondering for years how I could have been told this as a child and then as an adult no one could understand why I ended up in abusive relationships. I finally met a man who does not “like” me like that. I also have one child, a son and I’ll tell you what, he learned from a very young age that it was never OK to put your hands on anyone, especially a girl. I may have gone a bit overboard on this since his first real girlfriend was apparently not taught the same thing. Why can’t everyone teach their kids if you like someone express it, if you don’t then walk away. I know there will always be assholes in the world, another lesson my son had to learn, just so he wouldn’t be surprised when it happened. All women should teach their daughters being hit is not OK, hitting is not OK and their sons should be told the same thing. Maybe if they learned not to accept it there would be fewer girls who have to learn the hard way like I did. Thanks again.
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I have three boys and one girl. When they are mean to one another, I make them hug and say one nice thing about the other. They have to mean it. 😉 I’m hoping if they learn to think about how they treat their siblings, it will carry over to their peers. So far, my daughter is so thoughtful and caring. My son, who just finished kindergarten, I don’t think could hurt a fly. I’m hoping they continue this way and that the younger two carry on the tradition. The three year old, so far, is my biggest challenge. I hope it is just the ‘thrilling threes’!! Fingers crossed.
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Love this! Absolutely love! When I was a child (3 years old), a little boy constantly harassed me and I would be sent home EVERYDAY with an incident report attached to my shirt for my father to read. He talked to the teacher, he talked to the daycare staff, and even talked to the MPs (we lived on a military base). Nothing was done to ensure the harassment would end and I would be safe. So after another day of coming home with a bruise, my dad took things into his own hands and taught me defensive moves and told me that if the little boy ever hurt me again, that I was to kick, bite, punch, and hit back (I know not the greatest thing to tell a 3 year old girl, but my dad wanted to know that something was being done). And thats exactly what I did, as soon as he hurt me, I fought back, and didn’t stop. The little boy ended up with a broken nose and some bad bruises, and after a day in front of a judge, the little boy was 1) not allowed within 500 yards of me 2) His dad was demoted, and 3) they had to move, the daycare was also taken to the cleaners for not doing anything to stop the harassment. But its just sad that it took, my dad having to teach me how to fight, for me to finally get the protection I should have gotten from day 1 when the harassment began! I’ll never let any of my future children go through what I did. Being hurt/harassed never, NEVER means love!
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I really really like that you said all this. It is so completely true. Liking someone is CERTAINLY no excuse to act shitty towards them. And if you bully my daughter, I have a problem with that. ‘He was just teasing her’ my ass, you hurt her because you want her attention and you’ve made a gigantic fucking enemy in me.
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Whoa. Genius post and thank you for sharing. As moms to 5 girls, it’s a challenge with the whole self-respect – body image – awkward stuff as it is. Hey punks, keep your grubby mitts off!
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Not only is this applicable to how boys treat girls, but it should also lend to how we teach our children to stand up to bullies and mean girls.
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I just remembered how much I loved this. Required reading for people in the universe…
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Well I have to agree and disagree on this point. First off I am a mother of a beautiful (inside and out) little girl and I would never tolerate anyone abusing her. She wouldn’t either.
The truth is in a lot of cases though the boy (or girl) really does like the ‘victim’ and just wants their attention. They just doesn’t know how to go about getting that attention in a healthy way.
My daughter makes emotional mistakes, because she is a child and is human. How I deal with it is to talk to her. Ask her what she is wanting out of a situation, how she would like it if someone treated her the way she treated the other person, and what other options might be for getting her desired outcome and getting along better with people. I do not vilify her, I work with her to come up with acceptable and better solutions.
Yes, sometimes we are dealing with a bully. I would say that mostly we are probably just dealing with a child that hasn’t been given better options and is just acting out of emotional immaturity.
Let’s work to find a better solution for everyone, girls and boys alike.
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Omigoodness with the missing of the point. Sure, let’s concede that little boys do hit the girls they like because they don’t know any other way. Shouldn’t the adults around him teach him another way instead of just laughing off violent & aggressive behavior?
Little girls should never be made to internalize that violence from boys is an indicator of affection, nor should little boys have their violence against girls so easily laughed off by authority figures. Because little boys & little girls grow up to be men who beat women & women who think those beatings mean he cares.
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Good for you! The boy who did that to me in 8th grade walked away with a bloody nose & fat lip, even though he was 6ft tall and I was barely 5ft.
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I don’t normally condone foul language in my presence, but girls and women are faced with this kind of bullshit everyday – from the day they’re born. It’s high time we expressed our righteous anger and stopped being so damned nice.
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I completely agree. When I was in grade school, I was bullied a lot for being the quiet, shy one. I was told that the boys did it because they “liked me” and the girls did it because they were jealous. When I started dating at the age of 14, I never bothered to tell anyone the relationship was abusive because he “loved” me. When I was 15 I had another boyfriend who was the same way, I said nothing about it because he “loved” and I friend zoned all the boys who were halfway decent human beings because I became accustomed to being abused. I actually had a boyfriend at the age of 17 who started out like the rest of them, but when he changed, I broke up with him, because it didn’t feel right. I didn’t know how to act in a healthy relationship.
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Sorry but im calling bull shit here too! I have been the quite shy girl who got bullied.. ( called gay by the guys ) cause i held my best friends hand when i was in fourth grade.. ect. you know what? it made me stronger. I had an abusive brother who was just a few years older than me. he had anger issues would unplug the phone when i tried to call out, almost punched me square in the jaw and only barely missed cause my mother came home. He’d sit outside my door and listen to conversations i had with my best friend. He used to pick my little sister up and choke her by the throat with her feet dangling. ( then i’d fight him i’d never let him hurt her) He almost punched my mother out but didnt out of fear of my father, he had such anger problems that i would sit in my room with my door locked til my parents came home. Even my mother was scared of him as well. ( thats just ONE of my brothers) and you know what? . He NEVER pulled the hair or hit the girls he liked in grade school… weird eh? In fact it was the opposite even when he was younger he was EXTRA sweet to girls to make them like him. giving them gifts, being polite, opening doors for them ect. But the second he got mad you better freaking run like a bat outta hell. He chocked me kicked me and punched me- ( when i was little and older) and trust me he was punished when he was younger too. abuse like your referring to isnt a silly you pulled my hair type crap if that was all my brother did to me when i was 8 i would of laughed. with that said, its not a matter of being conditioned to be be littled. ( i mean half the girls i know that are kids can easily defend themselves to little boys and do) I never took that crap from a guy even when i was young i fought like hell. you know what? i still wouldnt and my husband knows it he’s watched me cut abusive people out of my life without blinking. my daughter doesnt take crap either and she is an only sibling. Its not based on how some little boy treated you when you were child – thats all wrong- you need to base this on how you SHOULD be treated and DESERVE as a human to be treated. as mothers its our duty to teach our children to have self confidence despite others opinions of us. to teach our little ladies what a real man is like and what they do deserve. So when the time comes that they are dating they CAN spot someone who is an abusive individual. A little boy pulling a girls pigtails is just that a little boy being a little boy…( they rough house, would you rather they play with barbie dolls?) my best friends son comes over and hits my daughter (he’s 2 and she’s 5) does it mean she feels belittled? do you think she takes it? answer : no she gives it right back ( not as harshly but she gives it back) and if a little boy pulls my daughters hair he’ll prolly get punched square in the face… not that, that response is a good thing. but i taught my daughter what to expect and how to act. its the parents job to do so. pulling hair isnt abusive or conditioning anyone for anything its just kids being kids. enough said. as for the whole “he likes you ” thing. sometimes yes, sometimes its just kids being kids. dont read so far into silly sayings. worry more about how your little one is doing/acting. btw how does this work if the girl kicks the guy? or smacks the guy? is she belittling him??? 😉
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Thanks for the warning that you are not raising your kids with any expectations at all. You realize they grow up right? They actually have to learn to be respectful eventually. It doesn’t come as a birthday gift. Do us all a favor and keep you bullying little brats with low self-esteem and no self-respect away from other kids and homeschool, okay?
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Yeah, that whole response had me shaking my head. She was physically abused by her brothers, allegedly to a severe extent and she excuses it and goes on to excuse abusive behavior towards and from her child(ren). I thought it a waste of my time to attempt dissent.
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in sociology we call it “maladaptive behavior” adapting to an unhealthy environment instead of demanding to change it is of negative not positive survival value. your brothers damaged you. You are passing the lesson onward. and AMEN to the queen of the couch. it’s called psychological normalization. How Benal, evil is. Just go read the benality of evil instead of assuming still being alive means you’ve learned somethig of value
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I just realized the comment I first saw in my approval queue was to another response. Confusion cured. 😉
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attempting to integrate with a fundamentally unhealthy culture and successfully adapting to rather than challenging it is of NEGATIVE not POSITIVE survival value.
the culture itself is sick, playing by it’s rules only continues the madness.
you aren’t helping anything by continuing the error. “Jerks” are an evolutionary mistake. they are of no value.call it coddling if you must but it’s only a “cruel world “because no one stands up to cruel people. and breaks their SPINES and puts them in their place
without cruel people the world wouldn’t need to be “strong” that way.
you can’t simutaniously cause something and then make excuses saying it’s necessary your kids be taught it too. Sorry. Cake and eatingit too. what you learned was how to adapt to an unhealthy culture. congrats. you’re now even more unhealthy because of it. Thanks…. maladaptive behavior. and if I have kids keep them far away from mine.
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Few points of contention here. Calling children assholes is wrong. Vowing to teach your children from entirely different perspectives based on gender is wrong. Marginalizing gay men by attaching a negative stigma to a sexual orifice is wrong. Assuming that only boys do this is wrong. Assuming a male child is smart enough to, when confronted by an authority figure, understand the problem, while not assuming that your daughter is smart enough to grasp the idea that some people can’t express themselves correctly, and that doesnt make them evil, is wrong. Congratulations, you just became a sexist. There is nothing right about being wrong.
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Guess what? Sometimes children are assholes. That is just a scientific fact.
I won’t even bother with the rest, since it is blatantly obvious that you are A) a troll or B) this went completely over your head.
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It is not “scientific fact” that some children are assholes. That makes no sense to say or believe. It is, however, psychological and tested fact that kids often pick on the person they like, because that is just what the do naturally. They’re not assholes, evil, wrong, or mean. Sometimes they go too far, but it is what kids do and you can’t expect an 8 year old to feel like he can’t poke a cute girl. You’re too worked up over natural stuff. If your girl is having a hard time of it then help her learn to talk people off, but don’t assume everyone besides you and your daughter is a bad person.
Although a daughter of yours might have quite the rude and terrible mouth, so she should be able to make little children cry.
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*facepalm* Are you fucking kidding me? Do you understand that not everything you hear or read (especially here) should be taken literally? Do you understand that some statements (especially here) are made facetiously? You may want to peruse some of my other blogs and familiarize yourself with hyperbole and sarcasm while you are here.
Show me the studies. Show me the scientific FACTS that show that bullying is hard wired into our biology to attract or choose a mate. This phenomenon is a sociological construct, not biological.
Children are not born knowing how to interact appropriately with others. They must be taught.If my son hit a girl, it wouldn’t be acceptable. I wouldn’t coo about “it must be a crush”. If my daughter hit a boy, I wouldn’t laugh and tell everyone, “he must be her boyfriend”. It is up to parents to teach their children the difference between right and wrong and acceptable and unacceptable behavior and treatment of others. I won’t tell them that hitting/being hit is not acceptable, unless you like the person or they like you, then it is ADORABLE!
You want to post a comment, chastising me for saying children (general) can be assholes and you close with a derogatory assumption about my daughter (specific). It makes my day when trolls out themselves with shit like this. Obviously, if I curse on an online blog, the logical conclusion is that my children must curse like truckers too. You, however, think nothing of outright stating that perpetuating the notion that bullying is acceptable, as long as it is known or perceived to demonstrate affection. And those conclusions are completely logical to you? Scary.
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When I was a kid, there used to be this jerk who would punch me in the arm every day, and call me names. The names weren’t anything THAT bad, but to a little 3rd grader they were horrible. He made my life miserable every day. I told my mom and her response was “aww, that’s cute! He probably likes you.” One day I had enough – he punched me in the arm and laughed like he normally did, and I punched him in the face and clawed and bit him. He never bothered me again, but my mom STILL brings him up to this day (I’m 25 now..) how it’s a shame that I scared him off, and that he was cute and he was just trying to get my attention. One time he was out at the same grocery store as us (I didn’t even recognize him anymore, but apparently my mom did) and she wanted me to go say hi to him.
I couldn’t care less if he liked me or not, I just wanted him to leave me alone, and he did. Mission accomplished.
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And yet, people keep replying that we should accept it as a social norm and teach our children to do the same. Thankfully, the majority of responses have come from other intelligent people who can recognize this to be a relevant issue and want to change the dialogue.
Good for you for being unwilling to accept the status quo and asserting your boundaries.
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“Oh, that just means he likes you”…..OMG…..countless times! When a boy/man likes you, they will abuse you and not only is it OKAY, it’s a compliment….that’s the message, so wrong in so many ways! Thank you for this post.
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“He probably just wants a play date …” Great line. But also so perfect. I love this whole thing in a very non hitty way. Thanks for spreading the word!
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I always appreciate non hitty comments! 😀 Thanks for reading!
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This post is great argument that boys and girls benefit from being educated separately. Boys make fun of other boys they like, and it draws them closer. Intent is key. Intent to harm versus intent to play and make friends is the main distinguishing factor. Girls don’t operate this way and shouldn’t have to be exposed to this while being educated. It’s just a distraction. Just like boys shouldn’t have to be exposed to rules and mores dictating that they sit down, “behave” and fall in line, as is the want of a majority of girls.
So yeah, slapping someone to tell them you love them is acceptable between men. I’m not sure you knew that. Men and women really are fundamentally different sorts of people.
On the other hand, disrespecting people in any form is of course on the rise and has been for 50 years, mainly because people don’t have any reason for being moral. And that is a tragedy.
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Are you serious? You’re running on the assumption that boys/men are born with something inherent that makes them become closer by hitting/verbally abusing each other. THIS IS A SOCIALIZED BEHAVIOR. Not all men become closer by hitting each other, or verbally abusing each other (whether it is joking or not). Your point of view on the matter is based on gender roles, where the man is strong and emotionally hardy, whereas women are (by nature) just more sensitive. Not all women become friends by having tea parties and sewing. You are putting people into gender stereotyped roles, and stating that socialized behavior (behavior that is NOT inherent, behavior that we learn from those around us as “normal”) is inherent, which is totally ignorant, in my opinion. It defends all of the negative behavior that we allow men to get away with just based on their sexuality. It allows for aggression because men “are just naturally more physical”. It allows for rape because “her skirt was too short and she was asking for it”. This rationale for others’ behavior is NOT acceptable.
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While it is true that some kids do bully because they “like” the victim and want the attention, the problem is that we teach the victim that this is something to be tolerated. That they have to put up with and accept the abuse because someone else isn’t capable of properly communicating their emotions. What should happen is that the bully should be taught that what they did was wrong, and how to properly communicate what they really feel. Stop teaching that abuse is affectionate! It only damages both parties, raising abusers and victims.
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You know, if they say a guy teased a girl, he won’t see a problem. But if they say he did it because he likes her, he will be embarassed, and probably stop. That’s why they say it to kids, it’s the best way to avoid it, not to clearify it to the girl.
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You might have a point if this weren’t being said to girls every. single. day.
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Yep, there are, indeed, a few morons that don’t get the bluff and just repeat what they hear.
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Let’s not mistake bullying for affection. There is a huge difference.
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Reblogged this on adventuresinvilgatown and commented:
This blog is hilarious and I love it! It’s very true that I would not put up with any act that could be considered bullying or harrassment. That being said, I do slightly disagree. I disagree (just a little bit) because I do believe that there is a very big difference in full on bullying/harrassment and the innocent hair pulling/teasing. I also think the phrase” Oh, that’s just because he/she likes you” is valid although I would never use it as an excuse not to address the offenders behavior.
Now before everyone starts freaking out and saying that I will allow my girls (or boy) to grow up accepting that they must be verbally /physically abused to be loved, please untwist your panties and let me explain.
I personally wasn’t harrassed or beat up by anyone that favored me in elementary school, but there were boys that teased, call me names, pulled my hair. Oddly enough, most of these boys didn’t grow up to be serial killers or abusive husbands. Actually, I hope none of them did but I’m not BFF’s with any of them, so I could totally be wrong. I also didn’t put up with it either…I distinctly remember throwing a shoe at someone when they were in the midst of their teasing. There are probably a few out there that probably remember this too:) Ahhh,memories!
Since my elementary days, I have since married a wonderful man and have 4 beautiful children. I met my husband in high school and he didn’t pull my hair or push me down, but I did fall for him LMAO Don’t tell anyone though, but after being married for 11 years he does ocassionally pull my hair…I know, right, the audacity! He calls me names, pokes me in ribs, holds me down and tickles me. For the love of all that’s good, call the authorities. Just kidding, I do not feel abused or unsafe in my home. And brace yourself,I will admit, I do those things to him too….I hope everyone was sitting down for that one! I don’t always (more like hardly ever) want to be bent over in a romatic kiss when he comes home from work and he sure as hell better pull my hair rather than bring me a bouquet of soon-to-be-dead flowers.
My children, they obviously watched our awesomeness. These kids love each other to pieces…literally;) They tease, bicker, chase, annoy.There’s definitely been some hair pulling and poking. Their future therapist can work those issues out later, but I figure they are just being kids right now. They always get reprimanded but my point is, they don’t act this way with just any old friend. My kids trust each other to act their worst around each other….they sadly do this with us too. We love them no matter what, right? So it could be true that when they “like” another child, they may act the way they would act with their sibling. If a child tugs on another’s hair or teases them, I think it could be true that he/she really does like the other child. The child’s behavior should be addressed though and not blown off. I don’t think the teasing makes them an asshole… at least not yet anyways. If it continues/gets worse, then we have a problem and thery ‘re not going to like the medicine I prescribe to fix the problem.
So yes, I agree with the fact that you should not raise your children to be a doormat, no matter what their gender. They should always tell you about anything that makes them uncomfortable ans as a parent, you should take care of the issue in some way,shape or form, rather than using a phrase to blow it off. I disagree with teaching our children that anyone that picks on them is an asshole and that there is no motive for their actions besides pure hatred. Out of my entire class, there are only a handful I would consider assholes…one did tease me in elementary school but he was a dick all through high school, so obviously it was his destiny. The others teasers (the ones that had their teasing in check by the transition to middle school) have turned out to be wonderful husbands and fathers.
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Reblogged this on Well Behaved Women Rarely Make History and commented:
I was told this more than once as a child- it’s a terrible lesson to teach ANY child, regardless of gender.
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I wish you had been my mother. That is all.
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When I told my mum, my teachers, my sister, that he/them didn’t like me, that I thought that was stupid, at 6 years old, they looked at me fondly and told me to leave it alone. The only times they made something was when it was a girl. I repeated it at 7, 8, and 9 years old. I stopped wearing skirts because boys tried to look under or pulled them down in front of everyone. After those ages I started reciprocating the ‘sentiment’, as they told me (finally) at home, but that got me as the bad one, the brute girl, the paranoic, loud, badmouthed child, and teachers scolded me and told me they were ashamed of my actions, that they thought I could do better. Now I have a permanent defensive behavior that I cannot change, it’s instinctive, and it hurts to be ashamed of breaking down, even if everyone else (now) wouldn’t mind helping, or at least offering, because I would push them away and wouldn’t be able to take it back. I am aware that I need to try harder to correct those traits, but I haven’t been able to have adecuate friends-or just proper, friendly classmates- until I left the last of my old peers behind, when I changed schools two years ago. I’m happy that someone is able to see the kind of influence, of consequences that labelling these acts as childish and normal causes-or may cause- with time. Thank you so very much.
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Lovely!
I was bullied by boys from when I was 5 until I was 14 (different ones.) This ranged from having my hair pulled, unwanted kisses, to having my private parts grabbed and having rocks thrown at me. (I had a concussion.)
In all instances, I was told that it was because they liked me and it was dismissed.
Some of these boys did like me. Some of them hated me. Some of them grew up to be perfectly nice people and good husbands. Some grew up to be…well I haven’t really cared enough to see HOW they grew up to be honest and I still don’t.
But all that is all irrelevant. Because I didn’t want my hair pulled. I didn’t want to be kissed by that particular boy. I didn’t want my private parts grabbed. I didn’t want to be hit. I didn’t want to be pushed. I didn’t want my belongings stolen and kept away from me. I didn’t want my bra snapped. I didn’t want to be tripped. I didn’t want someone to devise ways to humiliate me in front of the class. Every single one of these incidents happened in a milieu where there were specific rules against these things and they were NOT enforced because of the genders involved. It was not unreasonable for me to ask that the rules for behavior apply to those who were bullying me as they would be applied to myself.
When I broke the rules by mistreating a boy or another girl, I was punished and I deserved it. If I wasn’t punished by an adult, I was punished when those kids didn’t want to play with me anymore. Because of this, I had to be self-aware of my actions and that’s one of the things that helped me grow up.
“He likes you” is a dumb excuse. I don’t have a high opinion of adults who let kids get away with things because of lame-ass excuses. Nor do I respect those who are desperately looking for “outs” so they don’t have to enforce consistent rules.
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This is excellent, I feel so late in seeing this! I don’t think my parents ever taught me that, at least I don’t remember them saying it, though I heard it in other places and wondered why it was acceptable. I still remember once when a boy several years younger than me was disrespecting NKOTB in front of me and I shoved him into a bush. In hindsight, that was probably a major overreaction, but I guess my parents realized at that point that I could hold my own with the boys. I did get in trouble for it, but I think they also appreciated that I wasn’t going to take crap just because I was a girl.
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I feel as though you think that 10 year-olds have the same mental traits as adults (things like: how to show affection “properly”, the morality and implications of mental and physical harm, proper respect of other people and their property, etc.).
Additionally, you’re an adult who has absolutely no right to bring physical violence upon another person for stating their personal opinion. If you think it’s okay to slap someone and shout “I LOVE YOU” for saying something, would it be acceptable for me to respond to this article by breaking your jaw and saying “GOOD JOB!”? No, it would not. You hold this hypocritical opinion that physical violence isn’t an okay way to get a point across, and you somehow think that hurting people is an okay way to change their opinion (even in a theoretical situation.) I’m sure you’re a great mother… but you’re a terrible human-being.
Finally, perhaps you should do a little research on abusive relationships before you jump to the rash conclusion that grade-school name calling is mental conditioning for something incredibly sever like BPS.
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She obviously thinks it’s not okay to use violence to another human being and she was trying to make a point. She’s not going to punch someone and scream I love you she’s just saying that that’s the same as letting a boy use violence to express himself and it’s inappropriate!!!
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Of course 10 year olds don’t have the same mentality as adults, they wouldn’t be able to understand the complexities of morality and love until they’re much older. But do you know what 10 year olds do when they face these complexities? They ask adults for explanations for what they don’t understand, and since adults are the fountains of knowledge in their eyes they would take their words as unquestionable truth and isn’t it just messed up that what they’re being told is that abuse is a sign of affection?
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Love and morality starts at the dinner table and in the home. It’s not “out there” somewhere. What you teach as a parent regarding respect and equality with and toward others resonates everywhere, whether in school, on the playground, in sports activities, academic achievement, etc.
You know, in high school, in chemistry lab, I had a gross dweeb as my lab partner. A boy. During our final exams, wherein I was seated next to him, he started playing “footsy” with me and indicating with his nods to “help” him with his answers. I could not believe it at first, thinking (as most girls are trained to think), that it was some weird “misunderstanding” on my part.
NO, it wasn’t. The jerk expected me to “help” him based on his sexualized attention toward me. Yuck. Ew. I got it in my guts: totally gross boy usury on his part.
So, no, sorry, pal. I picked up my papers and walked to another table to do my exam – and I was far above him in ability. He failed. I passed with high marks.
Females, girls, women, stop giving yourselves away to these lesser beasts. Stand up and OWN yourselves as the intelligent, bright, able people you are. Let these far lesser gods drown in their own dust. They will . . . eventually.
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Your concern toward child development is admirable. As someone working in the development profession, I can tell you that their development is influenced by WHAT WE TEACH THEM AS CHILDREN. If you teach a boy that hitting someone because you like them is okay, or that they can’t be held responsible for their behavior, you are setting a precedent that allows them to use this excuse later in life.
If you teach a girl that hitting is a sign of love, and that she should sit back and do nothing, you are setting a precedent that tells her she doesn’t need to stand up for herself in the event her boyfriend/husband smacks her in the future. As someone WITH BPS, I can tell you that “but he loves me” is an excuse that people who abuse/are abused use and that it PERPETUATES abuse. It perpetuates rape, assault, and battery.
And until someone teaches our boys that they aren’t slaves to some primal instinct that compels them to hurt people or rape a girl “because she was wearing a short skirt”, and teaches our girls that standing up and saying “no I don’t deserve to be hit/teased/tormented and that someone who likes me will never do these things or should know that they are unacceptable” is okay and that demanding respect is okay, these things will not be solved.
Thinking otherwise is small-minded, archaic, and offensive to the men and women in those situations.
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I have two sons and a daughter and it is my 13yo son who has this problem right now. He has a 14yo girl following him around and asking him intrusive questions and pulling him to go with her when he doesn’t want to. When he says No, she just keeps on doing it and he has no idea how to stop her since he knows he’s not allowed to push or hit girls.
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Well he should be taught that hitting or getting hit in general is not okay regardless of sex. I guess if he’s getting hit by someone he needs to defend himself and among many boy circles, showing physical strength can be important but still…
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can’t believe the internet is filled with shit like this
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Thank you. This is excellence.
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This is sooooo incredibly excellent!! Thank you for sharing this post/your thoughts. I couldn’t agree with you more. ❤
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Thank you and thank you for reading!
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I had to weigh in, as someone who was bullied throughout school. None of the little boys who bullied me did it because they “liked” me. The ones who liked me were my friends and treated me kindly. The bullies were typically mean to everyone. In elementary school, the biggest bully told me that the reason he was going to make my life a living hell (and he did) was because he didn’t like new kids. In high school, when one of the worst bullies (a guy who actually slammed me into a wall and was later “taught a lesson” by a classmate because of those actions) actually called me to apologize years later, I asked him why he had done it. His response: “you seemed like such a strong person, I just wanted to see if I could get you to cry.” That doesn’t sound like a strong endorsement of “crush” behavior. In fact, I can say with certainty that NONE of the boys (or girls) who beat me up throughout school did so because they really “liked” me, or another one of my parents’ excuses for the treatment, because they were “just jealous.” Um, no. Nobody is jealous of the outcast. I wish that parents would teach their children from a young age that if you truly like someone, you treat them with kindness and compassion, not with violence, contempt, or abrasiveness. As many have said on here, there is a difference between teasing and bullying. But it is also very easy for one to transition into the other if it goes unchecked for too long. We do a disservice to our men AND women when we perpetuate gender stereotypes like “boys just don’t know any better cause that’s how they act toward each other.” We do ouselves a disservice, because I have seen that it is quite possible for a guy to show he likes you in a way that is respectful of personal boundaries and the limits of dignity. We do ourselves a disservice by not challenging a child’s belief that they should think/act/behave toward everyone in the same way in spite of the fact that we (males and females) are fundamentally different. And we do ourselves a disservice by excusing this behavior away when it happens with platitudes like “kids will be kids” or “they’re just jealous” or “they do it cause they like you.” We do ourselves a disservice when we don’t use these moments as opportunities to teach our children something different.
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Where do you reside, Amber… “Fantasy-Land”????
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More often than not, the boy IS pulling the hair of the girl because he likes her. How you attempt to compare the same actions between a mature adult and a child is a bit disturbing all by itself! It hurts a lot more to be the ignored child on the playground. I know a woman who would’ve loved to have just one boy pull her hair, or acknowledge her existence. Your “view” is not without merit, but at the same time I’m not so sure that you’ve really thought the matter through….
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Has it ever crossed your mind that the behaviors of a child reflect the kind of person that child will grow into? That the ideas and attitudes and morals instilled into the child of today will shape the perception of the world carried by that adult of tomorrow? Pro-tip: It absolutely shares a connection, and it absolutely has an influence. Teaching a child of any gender that laying their hands on another person in a non-friendly, unwelcome manner opens the door for them to do the same in a much more extreme level when they are older- because invading personal space and smacking, pulling, and other forms of “teasing” or “playing” were not taught to be something serious and much less “wrong”. Your comment of “knowing a woman who would have loved to have just one boy pull her hair, or acknowledge her existence” is honestly disgusting, and shows a truly ignorant way of viewing the world, and an even more ignorant, disparaging way of viewing this female acquaintance of yours, if she even exists. YOUR “view” has no merit whatsoever, and needs deeply of some introspection and actual realization of both the psychological effects the kind of playground teasing she describes in her blog can have on children of both genders well past the playground, and that you, perhaps, didn’t think the matter through before responding.
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Thank you! I have continued coming back to this comment to reply but couldn’t find the words. I’ve been at a loss–which says a lot coming from me!
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Don’t be an ass, MachoMan. I WAS punched in the jaw by a boy who “liked” me in the 6th grade. SOOO did not like it at all. Just because YOU think that’s a form of “affection” doesn’t mean the recipient thinks so. Okay?
I am now in my ’50’s and recently had a colleague (who is in his ’60’s) do this to me. Punched me right in my arm. Are you joking? I told him out
right that I hadn’t had that kind of “affection” done to me since I was in elementary school and I did not then, nor do I now, appreciate it.
Next time, this same idiot decided that, while I was leaning over the desk of our receptionist talking with HER about things, planting his elbows right on my lower back as though I am some sort of furniture for him was amusing.
Now, I work in healthcare and any moron should know that pressing down on someone’s back while they are bent over can cause damage. As soon as he did it, I just said, “Get yourself OFF my back right now.” I was focussed on my conversation with the receptionist that did not include him.
He didn’t obey my command (I do, indeed, have a former herniated disk right where he was pressing down, a position which, in fact, could seriously damage my lower spine). I again said, “GET OFF MY BACK RIGHT NOW!!!” He did, though “sulked” away, of course, humiliated by being observed in public – and humiliated is exactly what he should have been.
Guys, here’s the message: females and women are NOT here to serve as your punching bags, your furniture, your play toys. WE are your equals, and I hope, sincerely, you give up your childish garbage and start treating us the way we are meant to be treated. As equals, together.
Otherwise, those of us who are aware and awake and self-possessed, are going to give you your come-uppance, which you deserve.
Power and domination and treating women like “things/play toys” is NOT real, intimate human relationship. So get with the program, boys, and learn to grow up and be MEN in the world. That’s about partnership, not domination.
Got it yet?
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How do you think men learn that abusing women is OK? They learn it as boys when they do this shit and don’t get called out for it. The man grows from the child, he doesn’t just suddenly become an abusive dick out of nowhere one day.
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WOW, what an excellent blog. This brought back memories… And when I was 12 I finally punched one of my abusers in the face. As far as mydaughter Em (now in her 20s) was concerned, I told her to defend herself: to avoid hitting unless a blow to her was imminent or had occured. I told her to avoid violence but if necessary to do it well. I said “you’d get punished at school, but dinner out and a new toy from me.” I meant it.
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When I originally commented I appear to have clicked the -Notify me when new comments are added- checkbox and now every time a comment is added I get four emails
with the same comment. Perhaps there is a means you are able to remove me from that service?
Many thanks!
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I don’t seem to have that ability. I’m trying to find out how you would do it, though.
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I told my niece that when boys do that, it *might* be because they have a crush and are just too hormonally crazed and confused to realize how to behave, but by no means should she just put up with it. She should tell me, and I will DEAL with it.
Further, I told her that if she raises a fuss about it, she’d actually be doing these young fools a favor, by teaching them that abusing girls is NOT the way to behave. None of this “She should have sucked it up, rather than RUIN HIS LIFE” crap.
I do not use the word crap lightly. It is crap. When a victim of abuse calls out their abuser, the only one guilty of ruining the abuser’s life is the abuser. But if you teach these abusive types young, and they learn to stop being abusive early enough, their lives will be saved, not ruined.
I view stopping the abuse as a good thing, both for the victim, and the fool doing the abusing, in the first place, especially when it happens in the early years, and there is still plenty of time to avoid adult consequences.
Small children, and even teens, often don’t have a clue how to express love, and it may very well be that they are modeling behavior they have seen in their homes. If a boy’s father expresses “love” to his mother by abusing her, then the boy will probably think that’s the way he should act, too. He needs sensible people to teach him the error of that path, before it is too late. First stop the abuse and acceptance of abuse, and then teach him how to properly court his crush.
So, yes, I will tell her that the boy in question may very well be acting out of a crush he has on her. That doesn’t give him the right to act that way, and there WILL be consequences, for both their sakes.
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I think this tumblr post sums up what you said quite well 🙂 http://zpansven.tumblr.com/post/37694348691/tacticalhoneybadger-jedees-jedees-be-sure
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Love it! Do have one small criticism
“And we have the audacity to wonder why women stay in abusive relationships?” I think could be better rephrased as “And we have the audacity to wonder why abusers are able to keep women in abusive relationships?”
One is a line of reasoning that blames the abused women “Well, she’s the one choosing to stay, I guess she’s getting what she deserves!” The other better illustrates that society’s conditioning may have made them better targets, but someone had to come along to take advantage of that.
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What a great point! I’m not going to change it but I am going to add your comment into the end as an edit note. I think you’re dead on.
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Awesome blog, it made me think a bit.
Thanks for sparking my thinking cap
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What “right on” psychology you address about bullying. When we were growing up, my sister and I were picked on by the boys because we were the only 2 who didn’t have brothers. We were the vulnerable ones and were taught to accept it because of that weak rationalization. Well here I am, a grown woman, with a man who I am sure was a bully and still is a bully. I even say to him that I bet he pulled girls pigtails when he was younger and he tells me no, that he was a good boy, then he smiles and says yea I guess I did. I can tell by his treatment of me that he was and still is a bully. So for all you know it alls who dismiss it as innocent childhood behavior that is outgrown, you’re wrong. He’s 54 years old and since he has gotten away with it his whole life, feels that I’m overreacting when I call him a bully. He calls me names and threatens to destroy me with the Internet or tries to make me fear him if I do something that he doesn’t like. All the while telling everyone that I’m a “head case” and he can’t take this anymore, then tries to get me to apologize when I tell him to go because he knows damn well that its him and he’s just using this bad behavior to try to control me. It’s because he has gotten away with it his whole life and no one had ever called him out on it before but I do. So he will push my buttons, belittle me, put me down, threaten me that he always gets revenge and if I do anything that he doesn’t like I will pay for it until he tries to get ME to apologize for everything and anything. It’s all about control. I’ve actually had enough and after 11 years told him he has to go. It’s my apartment. So he tells me nobody tells me to go. Ill go when I want to. And if you do anything to try to make me go you’ll see what happens to you. Here’s the thing, at first I thought he had boyish, impish, bad boy charm…. But it’s really just narcissistic controlling bullying, but we as women are conditioned to accept that behavior because they’re just boys and they will grow out of it. Boys will be boys right? WRONG! It’s harmful and it sucks and we shoukdnt have to take control as acceptable behavior. It’s put bullying whether they’re 8 or 54. He gets away with it because his family either tells me that you can’t pay attention to him or that’s him or feels sorry for him when as soon as he does something or says something to me, he calls them up and twists the story around so that he’s the victim. He needs that validation to rationalize his behavior so as soon as he hears someone say you can’t live like that he’s all puffed up with ego and actually believes that he’s a great guy and didn’t say anything wrong to me. It’s bizarre.
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You are so much better than that and I can tell that you are strong! I hope that you have a support system and can see the light at the end of the tunnel. You deserve your independence. Do not give up your autonomy. Do not give in to his control. Please, please, please–if you need an ear, contact me via my contact on this site or my FB page. Thank you for sharing your story.
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This post is absolutely wonderful. I’ve never noticed this before and I don’t know why I haven’t.
In first grade, I was chased around the playground by a boy and pushed into a thicket, leaving me with scratch marks all around my stomach and arms. He was barely even punished– he just had a crush on me, that’s all. That same year, a boy forcibly tried to get me to “marry” him, twisting my arms and forcing my stay with him. He just had a crush on me. In second grade, a little boy bullied me continually, calling me names and hurting me. Once he even rallied a group of about ten boys to beat up me and my friend. It wasn’t until he wrote me a note saying that he hated me and wanted to hurt me that he got in trouble, and even then, he just had a crush on me. That same year, I was being verbally abused by another boy who just had a crush on me.
I haven’t realized until now I was a victim of violence and nobody did freaking anything because a little boy “just had a crush on me.” I can distinctly remember an incident in fourth grade when a girl had a crush on a boy and when he didn’t give her the same adoration she beat him up. She was suspended from school. So how come she was punished severely when I, who had suffered similar acts, was brushed off?
I’m in ninth grade now and a boy has a crush on me and he’s scaring me. He chases me through the hallway and touches my legs and hands and he won’t leave me alone. I make it very obvious that I am feeling uncomfortable, and I’ve told people about it, yet nobody’s come to my aid because he just has a crush on me.
Bull. S***.
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Wow, this is quite relatable. At the age of eight (that was in 2001) I was bullied by one boy and his group of followers for the duration of the entire school year. When my parents talked to the teacher about his verbal and physical harassment at the beginning of the year she told my parents sweetly, “he just has a crush on her.” I remember him getting about 20 other kids to chase us behind the portable where we had to hid under the steps to escape. They would kick dirt over our heads. When I finally shoved him back near the end of the year my teacher was extremely angry at my display of physical aggression.
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I totally agree with your stance however I strongly urge you to use less offensive language to reach a wider audience. Ranting and using vulgar words is a huge turnoff and makes one wonder if your language is so limited you know no other way to communicate.
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What a ridiculous statement to make. Whilst people may indeed be offended by the use of vulgar words, this use does not in any way suggest that the person using them has a limited vocabulary. In fact it’s usually quite the contrary. Words considered to be ‘vulgar’ are more commonly some of the most emotive and expressive examples of language, along with being some of the most honest and descriptive. When used effectively (I can think of few more suitable subjects that this) they are particularly useful in the arousal of the desired feelings in others, as well as allowing the author to impart the entirety of their anger towards the subject.
Surely the people who refuse to use handfuls of horrid language are the ones who are truly limiting their vocabulary? Let’s be honest, we can find all of the words deemed appropriate at Thesaurus.com.
Fantastic post though. Should I discover any behaviour such as this towards my daughter I shall be heading to my wretched shed, taking my godforsaken shovel and wrapping it around the offending little cretin’s parents (This isn’t for me. Swearing just sounds better).
Or maybe a little heated discussion with them would be a better idea first.
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You made my fucking day with this comment.
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Thanks, Liam, I ditto the Queen’s comment and so appreciate when more men can see the forest through the trees.
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he quiet literally made that comment on my 27th birthday. I JUST noticed that.
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Oh, gee, Sharon, you think droning people to death in other countries and taking away our civil rights in this country isn’t “vulgar” and disgusting?” You think that’s all nice and polite and all good? You are having a problem with the language here when women and girls of 5 and 6 years old are being raped and murdered in India(and in the good ole USA)?
You have a “problem” with Ms. Queen’s language? What IS the matter with you, Sharon? Your difficulty is with emotional/social/spiritual myopathy, Sharon. Go put on some glasses and take stock of your personal morals and judgments, Sharon. Look at the bigger picture. That’s what the Queen is trying to show you, though, apparently, you still don’t get it, yet.
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This is so great. Thank you!! It also made me think that it sets girls up not only to potentially enter/stay in abusive relationships but on a more minor and slightly more insidious tip it could be where the whole ‘nice guys finish last’ BS comes from. It always amazes me how girls love the ‘bad boys’ or how many times girls will look down on a guy who is too nice, too good to her, too sweet and go for the one who treats her like shit (or just not very nicely! which is equally ridiculous). This insight totally explains that phenomenon. Anyway I LOVE this post. thank you!!!
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I’m glad you found me and you enjoyed the read! Keep coming back! I don’t write every day but I write when i’m inspired to write.
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I developed early and I cannot count the times I heard this bullshit excuse for bad behavior from boys in my class. In what universe does bullying equal affection?!
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Hey there! I could have sworn I’ve been to this blog before but after checking through some of the post I realized it’s new to me.
Nonetheless, I’m definitely delighted I found it and I’ll be book-marking and checking back frequently!
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Glad you found me again, for the first time! 😉
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Some good points here, but the way you write makes me think that you’re some trashy, over-confrontational and perpetually angry person. While I commend you for sticking up for your children, I’m really glad that my parents didn’t write or speak this way; I would have been really embarrassed. You’re language doesn’t offend me, it just gives you less credibilty on a topic like this. That said, I think that kids do things because they are kids…..they haven’t fully formed as people yet. I think most of the time, when boys pick on girls, it is because they like them, but certainly not in every instance. I don’t think we should let them get away with it, but I also don’t think that we should come to the conclusion that this is why some women endure future abuse. Parents consistently modeling good behavior is the best way that kids will learn how to act. Young boys have awkward and innappropiate ways of expressing emotion. We should let them know it isn’t right when they try to gain attention in those ways, but we also shouldn’t jump to the conclusion that this sort of thing (which has always gone on) is some long-ignored social crisis.
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Oh no! Someone on the internet doesn’t like me because I said bad words!? I’m going to change! I swear! Like me! Validate me, please!
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Yep, angry person blogging
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Good for you, Queen. Shawn, there, is obviously using all and every way of trying to demean and degrade you. So typical. There is a wonderful book by a woman named Kim Chernin (the book was about eating disorders in females) in which she coined the phrase “The Tyranny of Niceness.” That’s right, Shawn, if a female isn’t being or saying “nice” things, you boys move in to undermine her. Sorry, guy, it doesn’t work any more.
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Hey Shawn, did it occur to you that this woman – and many, many other women – have perfectly good reasons to be angry? Like, oh, I don’t know, being treated this way for hundreds, if not thousands, of years?
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I don’t think he, nor his ilk, will ever get it. When women speak out, air grievances, much less, express anger or indignation, she is just a bitter, angry and/or jaded BITCH. If only bitches have and express dissenting, even unpopular, opinions, then hand me my label.
Thank you!
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I really despise the phrase “kids will be kids.” It seems to be the lazy parents’ mantra.
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OMG Heather….running theme in my household this week….”par for the course”….”boys will be boys”….” Violence is NOT “par for the course” lazy parents!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I’m so happy we have model citizens that will troll the internet and lecture us heretics about our filthy fucking mouths. Please go on and better the world by ridding heathens of their sinful tongues and policing the language of a blog I’m sure her children don’t know exists, much less fucking reads. Also: shit piss fuck cunt cocksucker mother fucker tits fart turd twat, with apologies to the late, great George Carlin.
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A fascinating discussion is definitely worth comment.
I do think that you need to write more about this topic, it may not be a
taboo matter but usually folks don’t speak about these subjects. To the next! Best wishes!!
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If women are to be respected, we should as you say, respect ourselves, so why is your background image a nude “you” with a glass of bubbly???
What are you playing at?
You are presenting yourself as a sex object.
I presume this is ok as you need to sell your blog???????????????
Come on we need real “girl power” and intelligent, informed, women like you to lead by example.
You have huge influence so use it wisely and well please.
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What makes you think the vector graphic is of a nude “me”? Obviously she just got done working out and is wearing yoga pants and a prana tank.
In all seriousnes,it’s a vector image graphic of a female silhouette. There aren’t nipples or vulva portrayed. It isn’t sexual or vulgar. If the outline of a breast or a female portrayed imbibing is offensive , I don’t know what to tell you. Women have breasts. I have breasts. I like wine. A lot of women do. I don’t think acknowledging the existence of breasts or drinking wine is a feminist contradiction. We will have to agree to disagree on that, I suppose. You think the faceless, basic outline of a female form is presenting myself as a sex object and I think that is really reaching for something to be offended about but, what are you gonna do? I can’t please all the people all of the time. I’m okay with that.
Also, I don’t “sell my blog”. I don’t make a dime off of this. I have always liked writing and this blog began, and has since remained, a hobby.
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Thank you for replying apologies for accusing you wrongly of profiteering from the blog.I hear what you are saying however I still feel it trivializes you somehow,and you seem to be worth more than that.Good luck and kind regards
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And she wouldn’t be something if she DID feel comfortable displaying herself in such a way? Nudity doesn’t have to be sexual, and the longer we force that ideology of nudity and sexuality being mutually exclusive, then the longer we’ll find others objectifying us – regardless of our sex or gender.
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Reblogged this on sophistirachet and commented:
Where women learn to accept abuse as affection ——>
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Spot on. I would differentiate between real abuse and justified contact though, as I hope I don’t fall into that category. I did slap my ex-girlfriend once…but it was to wake her up because she passed out drunk at a graduation party in the lap of a kid who was just released from jail. With no inhibitions, control of her body, and the fact that she was dressed like a slut-whore, I thought it seemed like a more viable option than a drunk molestation from a convicted felon.
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You had a good point, right up until you decided to slut-shame your ex girlfriend and “save” her from molestation with physical abuse. There are plenty of things you could have done instead of hitting her. Sitting with her. Sitting her upright. Call an ambulance if she was so drunk she couldn’t wake up.
Instead, you valiantly saved her from her own poor choice of dress. Good job.
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Obviously, I’m coming to this very late, but just wanted to say – this is an awesome post.
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I would like to respectfully offer this criticism: some boys DO engage in this behavior in a bid for attention, because they DO have a crush. Like all children, they have not yet developed the social sensibilities most adults take for granted. Sometimes they get caught in the grip of emotions and desires that they have not yet learned to control, or understand, or deal with in a socially appropriate manner. This certainly doesn’t mean girls should be encouraged to like or accept this behavior, or that boys shouldn’t be corrected when they do it, but ignoring the truth doesn’t really help the situation. Maybe that “little asshole” is just a normal kid who hasn’t had the benefit of thoughtful parents to guide him, and maybe he deserves more than to be dismissed with a harsh summary judgement. Telling a girl that maybe the boy was mean to her because he liked her is NOT the same as endorsing this behavior. Conflating the two concepts does a disservice to children. Knowledge is power, and as adults, it’s our responsibility to impart our wisdom and perspective to them.
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YES! I agree! It’s developmental and girls develop the ability to distinguish their emotions faster than most boys. I, JUST had this discussion with my six year girl last night and the conversation went like this ” Mommy Rylan pinched me at school today.” Me “Well honey sometimes boys do that to get your attention because they really like you but don’t know how to tell you that.” Her “Did Daddy pinch you when you first met? ” Me “No, he was a grown adult and realized that he liked me and just asked me out on a date. Mature boys realize that pinching you will not make you like them, so they use their words to tell you how they feel and be your friend.” At six years old my daughter was able to get it. She said “The next time he does that to me Mommy, I will tell him that it won’t make me like him and if he wants me to like him, then he needs to be nice to me.” So I think it’s ALL in the way it is indeed spoken about, but it’s a factually truthful thing that this occurs in childhood development.
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